[RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Tiwei Bie]

Hello everyone,

We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK. Many
formal/mature opensource communities allow this. Such as:

FreeBSD:

The main branch is here:

https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/

And developers can try or start experimental projects here:

https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/
https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/projects/
https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/vendor/
...

We can also find similar things on kernel.org and freedesktop.org:

https://git.kernel.org/
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/

But currently on DPDK.org, for the repos of DPDK, besides the main
repo, there are just one repo for stable release, few old repos
which are obsoleted, and some "-next" repos which are mainly used
as the preparation of pull requests for different subsystems of DPDK.
Some “-next” repos may be developed individually for a short time
when they are created, but will always be merged to the main repo
after few releases. We think they are too formal/limited to try
new ideas.

What we want to proposal is to make DPDK.org allow hosting some
DPDK based repos which may be very experimental, which even not
be planned to be merged back to the main repo directly, and may
be deleted directly if it proves that no one really cares about
it. Just like what other opensource communities did, allow some
core developers/vendors create their own repos and try ideas on
DPDK.org without too many restrictions. We think it can provide
people a very convenient way to try ideas in DPDK community and
eventually help DPDK grow.

Allowing it won't have any negative impact on the existing repos
of DPDK, instead, it can help to keep them tidy and clean when
someone wants/needs to try some very experimental and big ideas
publicly in DPDK as he/she can start it in an experimental repo.
An experimental repo can be merged back to the main repo when it
proves to be mature and useful, or could just be deleted when no
one really cares about it any more.

Please share your thoughts on this. Many thanks! :-)

Best regards,
Tiwei Bie

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Dumitrescu, Cristian]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev [mailto:dev-bounces@dpdk.org] On Behalf Of Tiwei Bie
> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 6:08 AM
> To: dev@dpdk.org
> Cc: Richardson, Bruce <bruce.richardson@intel.com>;
> yuanhan.liu@linux.intel.com; Ananyev, Konstantin
> <konstantin.ananyev@intel.com>; thomas@monjalon.net
> Subject: [dpdk-dev] [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on
> DPDK.org
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK. Many
> formal/mature opensource communities allow this. Such as:
> 
> FreeBSD:
> 
> The main branch is here:
> 
> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/
> 
> And developers can try or start experimental projects here:
> 
> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/
> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/projects/
> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/vendor/
> ...
> 
> We can also find similar things on kernel.org and freedesktop.org:
> 
> https://git.kernel.org/
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/
> 
> But currently on DPDK.org, for the repos of DPDK, besides the main
> repo, there are just one repo for stable release, few old repos
> which are obsoleted, and some "-next" repos which are mainly used
> as the preparation of pull requests for different subsystems of DPDK.
> Some “-next” repos may be developed individually for a short time
> when they are created, but will always be merged to the main repo
> after few releases. We think they are too formal/limited to try
> new ideas.
> 
> What we want to proposal is to make DPDK.org allow hosting some
> DPDK based repos which may be very experimental, which even not
> be planned to be merged back to the main repo directly, and may
> be deleted directly if it proves that no one really cares about
> it. Just like what other opensource communities did, allow some
> core developers/vendors create their own repos and try ideas on
> DPDK.org without too many restrictions. We think it can provide
> people a very convenient way to try ideas in DPDK community and
> eventually help DPDK grow.
> 
> Allowing it won't have any negative impact on the existing repos
> of DPDK, instead, it can help to keep them tidy and clean when
> someone wants/needs to try some very experimental and big ideas
> publicly in DPDK as he/she can start it in an experimental repo.
> An experimental repo can be merged back to the main repo when it
> proves to be mature and useful, or could just be deleted when no
> one really cares about it any more.
> 
> Please share your thoughts on this. Many thanks! :-)
> 
> Best regards,
> Tiwei Bie

+1

Fd.io has the sandbox area, why not having something similar on dpdk.org?

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Yuanhan Liu]

On Thu, Jun 01, 2017 at 09:36:39AM +0000, Dumitrescu, Cristian wrote:
> > From: dev [mailto:dev-bounces@dpdk.org] On Behalf Of Tiwei Bie
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> > some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> > someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK. Many
> > formal/mature opensource communities allow this. Such as:
> > 
> > FreeBSD:
> > 
> > The main branch is here:
> > 
> > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/
> > 
> > And developers can try or start experimental projects here:
> > 
> > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/
> > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/projects/
> > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/vendor/
> > ...
> > 
> > We can also find similar things on kernel.org and freedesktop.org:
> > 
> > https://git.kernel.org/
> > https://cgit.freedesktop.org/
> > 
> > But currently on DPDK.org, for the repos of DPDK, besides the main
> > repo, there are just one repo for stable release, few old repos
> > which are obsoleted, and some "-next" repos which are mainly used
> > as the preparation of pull requests for different subsystems of DPDK.
> > Some “-next” repos may be developed individually for a short time
> > when they are created, but will always be merged to the main repo
> > after few releases. We think they are too formal/limited to try
> > new ideas.
> > 
> > What we want to proposal is to make DPDK.org allow hosting some
> > DPDK based repos which may be very experimental, which even not
> > be planned to be merged back to the main repo directly, and may
> > be deleted directly if it proves that no one really cares about
> > it. Just like what other opensource communities did, allow some
> > core developers/vendors create their own repos and try ideas on
> > DPDK.org without too many restrictions. We think it can provide
> > people a very convenient way to try ideas in DPDK community and
> > eventually help DPDK grow.
> > 
> > Allowing it won't have any negative impact on the existing repos
> > of DPDK, instead, it can help to keep them tidy and clean when
> > someone wants/needs to try some very experimental and big ideas
> > publicly in DPDK as he/she can start it in an experimental repo.
> > An experimental repo can be merged back to the main repo when it
> > proves to be mature and useful, or could just be deleted when no
> > one really cares about it any more.
> > 
> > Please share your thoughts on this. Many thanks! :-)
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Tiwei Bie
> 
> +1
> 
> Fd.io has the sandbox area, why not having something similar on dpdk.org?

+1.

Also, cc'ed Stephen, who is going to chair next tech-board meeting in
next week. Let's have a brief discuss there?

	--yliu

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Thomas Monjalon]

01/06/2017 07:07, Tiwei Bie:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK. Many
> formal/mature opensource communities allow this. Such as:
[...]

So you are asking for a forge.
It requires some maintenance effort.

> But currently on DPDK.org, for the repos of DPDK, besides the main
> repo, there are just one repo for stable release, few old repos
> which are obsoleted, and some "-next" repos which are mainly used
> as the preparation of pull requests for different subsystems of DPDK.

Yes they are the official DPDK repos.

> Some “-next” repos may be developed individually for a short time
> when they are created, but will always be merged to the main repo
> after few releases. We think they are too formal/limited to try
> new ideas.

Why? Do you need to host a repo on dpdk.org to try a new idea?

> What we want to proposal is to make DPDK.org allow hosting some
> DPDK based repos which may be very experimental, which even not
> be planned to be merged back to the main repo directly, and may
> be deleted directly if it proves that no one really cares about
> it. Just like what other opensource communities did, allow some
> core developers/vendors create their own repos and try ideas on
> DPDK.org without too many restrictions. We think it can provide
> people a very convenient way to try ideas in DPDK community and
> eventually help DPDK grow.
> 
> Allowing it won't have any negative impact on the existing repos
> of DPDK, instead, it can help to keep them tidy and clean when
> someone wants/needs to try some very experimental and big ideas
> publicly in DPDK as he/she can start it in an experimental repo.
> An experimental repo can be merged back to the main repo when it
> proves to be mature and useful, or could just be deleted when no
> one really cares about it any more.
> 
> Please share your thoughts on this. Many thanks! :-)

I am against adding some user repos in this list:
	http://dpdk.org/browse/
I think the list of official repos must be kept light for good visibility.

But we can imagine a forge for users at a different location like
	http://dpdk.org/users/
However why not using another public forge for this need?

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Dumitrescu, Cristian]

> Why? Do you need to host a repo on dpdk.org to try a new idea?
> 

Prototyping new DPDK-related ideas and sharing them with DPDK community, with some of them likely to eventually make their way into DPDK once accepted and mature enough.


> I am against adding some user repos in this list:
> 	http://dpdk.org/browse/
> I think the list of official repos must be kept light for good visibility.

We could have a single project called sandbox mentioned in this list; whoever interested, needs to drill down into this one?

> 
> But we can imagine a forge for users at a different location like
> 	http://dpdk.org/users/
> However why not using another public forge for this need?

Easier to share DPDK related ideas on dpdk.org rather than other places.

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Stephen Hemminger]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 18:37:40 +0000
"Dumitrescu, Cristian" <cristian.dumitrescu@intel.com> wrote:

> > Why? Do you need to host a repo on dpdk.org to try a new idea?
> >   
> 
> Prototyping new DPDK-related ideas and sharing them with DPDK community, with some of them likely to eventually make their way into DPDK once accepted and mature enough.
> 
> 
> > I am against adding some user repos in this list:
> > 	http://dpdk.org/browse/
> > I think the list of official repos must be kept light for good visibility.  
> 
> We could have a single project called sandbox mentioned in this list; whoever interested, needs to drill down into this one?
> 
> > 
> > But we can imagine a forge for users at a different location like
> > 	http://dpdk.org/users/
> > However why not using another public forge for this need?  
> 
> Easier to share DPDK related ideas on dpdk.org rather than other places.
> 

Let's not distract Thomas and others with lots of effort to run servers.
Having dpdk.org be the server for development and stable should be more than enough.

Running a secure server for user repositories is hard. If you want an example,
look follow some of the two factor auth stuff being done at kernel.org.

Another option would be to have an official clone of dpdk.org on github
and let users do what they need to there. This keeps project out of the forge
business.

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Tiwei Bie]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 05:29:48PM +0200, Thomas Monjalon wrote:
> 01/06/2017 07:07, Tiwei Bie:
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> > some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> > someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK. Many
> > formal/mature opensource communities allow this. Such as:
> [...]
> 
> So you are asking for a forge.
> It requires some maintenance effort.
> 
> > But currently on DPDK.org, for the repos of DPDK, besides the main
> > repo, there are just one repo for stable release, few old repos
> > which are obsoleted, and some "-next" repos which are mainly used
> > as the preparation of pull requests for different subsystems of DPDK.
> 
> Yes they are the official DPDK repos.
> 
> > Some “-next” repos may be developed individually for a short time
> > when they are created, but will always be merged to the main repo
> > after few releases. We think they are too formal/limited to try
> > new ideas.
> 
> Why? Do you need to host a repo on dpdk.org to try a new idea?
> 

Yeah. We have some new ideas to try in DPDK, and we are longing to
host some repos on dpdk.org to show them to the community. Such as
some virtio 1.1 prototyping. DPDK is one of the best places to practice
those new ideas. We want to show it in a formal way to promote the
development of virtio in DPDK. Currently, it's done in a temporary
branch of Yuanhan's next-virtio tree:

http://dpdk.org/browse/next/dpdk-next-virtio/commit/?h=for-testing

It's very inconvenient, and just like what you said, it is an official
DPDK repo, and actually we are misusing it. :-(

> > What we want to proposal is to make DPDK.org allow hosting some
> > DPDK based repos which may be very experimental, which even not
> > be planned to be merged back to the main repo directly, and may
> > be deleted directly if it proves that no one really cares about
> > it. Just like what other opensource communities did, allow some
> > core developers/vendors create their own repos and try ideas on
> > DPDK.org without too many restrictions. We think it can provide
> > people a very convenient way to try ideas in DPDK community and
> > eventually help DPDK grow.
> > 
> > Allowing it won't have any negative impact on the existing repos
> > of DPDK, instead, it can help to keep them tidy and clean when
> > someone wants/needs to try some very experimental and big ideas
> > publicly in DPDK as he/she can start it in an experimental repo.
> > An experimental repo can be merged back to the main repo when it
> > proves to be mature and useful, or could just be deleted when no
> > one really cares about it any more.
> > 
> > Please share your thoughts on this. Many thanks! :-)
> 
> I am against adding some user repos in this list:
> 	http://dpdk.org/browse/
> I think the list of official repos must be kept light for good visibility.
> 

Yeah, I totally agree with you. The list of official repos should
definitely be kept as light as possible.

> But we can imagine a forge for users at a different location like
> 	http://dpdk.org/users/
> However why not using another public forge for this need?
> 

It's definitely OK to show those repos at http://dpdk.org/users/ or
any other similar locations. Technically, we can use any public forge
for this need. But it would seems less connected with DPDK community
and be harder for other people to figure it out quickly. And we really
don't want such things hinder the development of the new ideas.

Anyway, DPDK is not a small community any more. We should learn from
other mature open source communities such as FreeBSD/Linux. If we have
some concerns on the maintenance effort, we should think about how to
fix it, rather than letting it kill this proposal.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts! :-)

Best regards,
Tiwei Bie

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Olivier Matz]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:37:58 -0700, Stephen Hemminger
<stephen@networkplumber.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 18:37:40 +0000
> "Dumitrescu, Cristian" <cristian.dumitrescu@intel.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Why? Do you need to host a repo on dpdk.org to try a new idea?
> > >     
> > 
> > Prototyping new DPDK-related ideas and sharing them with DPDK
> > community, with some of them likely to eventually make their way
> > into DPDK once accepted and mature enough.
> > 
> >   
> > > I am against adding some user repos in this list:
> > > 	http://dpdk.org/browse/
> > > I think the list of official repos must be kept light for good
> > > visibility.    
> > 
> > We could have a single project called sandbox mentioned in this
> > list; whoever interested, needs to drill down into this one? 
> > > 
> > > But we can imagine a forge for users at a different location like
> > > 	http://dpdk.org/users/
> > > However why not using another public forge for this need?    
> > 
> > Easier to share DPDK related ideas on dpdk.org rather than other
> > places. 
> 
> Let's not distract Thomas and others with lots of effort to run
> servers. Having dpdk.org be the server for development and stable
> should be more than enough.
> 
> Running a secure server for user repositories is hard. If you want an
> example, look follow some of the two factor auth stuff being done at
> kernel.org.
> 
> Another option would be to have an official clone of dpdk.org on
> github and let users do what they need to there. This keeps project
> out of the forge business.
> 

+1

I'm not convinced about why having those repos hosted at a place or
another would help to share ideas. It will generates a long list of
obsolete directories. For instance, in my opinon, the repo list on
kernel.org brings more noise than useful info: https://git.kernel.org/

As Stephen said, administrating these new repos/ml/patchwork/... would
imply a maintenance work (Thomas), knowing there are plenty other ways
to have a public git repo.

Instead, what about adding a link on dpdk.org website that would point
to a place for dpdk.org related projects on github/gitlab/...
This could be either to a public forge, or to a dedicated server
administrated by people that needs this feature, avoiding another work
load for Thomas ;)

Olivier

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Thomas Monjalon]

Hi,

01/06/2017 07:07, Tiwei Bie:
> We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK.

It has been discussed during the last technical board meeting.
The board was not convinced by this idea, but would like to better
understand what is the problem to be solved with this proposal?

If there is something to solve, we could decide one these proposals:
	1/ let users free to choose their forge
	2/ advise for gitlab
	3/ advise for github (and fight to recover the name DPDK)
	4/ pay a sysadmin to host and secure our own forge in dpdk.org domain

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Tiwei Bie]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 03:29:29PM +0200, Thomas Monjalon wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 01/06/2017 07:07, Tiwei Bie:
> > We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> > some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> > someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK.
> 
> It has been discussed during the last technical board meeting.
> The board was not convinced by this idea, but would like to better
> understand what is the problem to be solved with this proposal?
> 
> If there is something to solve, we could decide one these proposals:
> 	1/ let users free to choose their forge
> 	2/ advise for gitlab
> 	3/ advise for github (and fight to recover the name DPDK)
> 	4/ pay a sysadmin to host and secure our own forge in dpdk.org domain
> 

Anyway, I don't think it's a bad idea to get the name DPDK back
on github if possible. Any thoughts?

Best regards,
Tiwei Bie

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Thomas Monjalon]

20/06/2017 08:16, Tiwei Bie:
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 03:29:29PM +0200, Thomas Monjalon wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > 01/06/2017 07:07, Tiwei Bie:
> > > We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> > > some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> > > someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK.
> > 
> > It has been discussed during the last technical board meeting.
> > The board was not convinced by this idea, but would like to better
> > understand what is the problem to be solved with this proposal?
> > 
> > If there is something to solve, we could decide one these proposals:
> > 	1/ let users free to choose their forge
> > 	2/ advise for gitlab
> > 	3/ advise for github (and fight to recover the name DPDK)
> > 	4/ pay a sysadmin to host and secure our own forge in dpdk.org domain
> > 
> 
> Anyway, I don't think it's a bad idea to get the name DPDK back
> on github if possible. Any thoughts?

I've already tried to get it two years ago.
I will try again requesting help from the Linux Foundation.

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Tiwei Bie]

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 09:21:34AM +0200, Thomas Monjalon wrote:
> 20/06/2017 08:16, Tiwei Bie:
> > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 03:29:29PM +0200, Thomas Monjalon wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > 01/06/2017 07:07, Tiwei Bie:
> > > > We'd like to make a proposal of making DPDK.org allow hosting
> > > > some personal/project repos, which could be very useful when
> > > > someone wants to try some experimental projects in DPDK.
> > > 
> > > It has been discussed during the last technical board meeting.
> > > The board was not convinced by this idea, but would like to better
> > > understand what is the problem to be solved with this proposal?
> > > 
> > > If there is something to solve, we could decide one these proposals:
> > > 	1/ let users free to choose their forge
> > > 	2/ advise for gitlab
> > > 	3/ advise for github (and fight to recover the name DPDK)
> > > 	4/ pay a sysadmin to host and secure our own forge in dpdk.org domain
> > > 
> > 
> > Anyway, I don't think it's a bad idea to get the name DPDK back
> > on github if possible. Any thoughts?
> 
> I've already tried to get it two years ago.
> I will try again requesting help from the Linux Foundation.

Cool! Glad to hear that! Thank you! :-)

Best regards,
Tiwei Bie

Re: [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos on DPDK.org

[Manoj Mallawaarachchi]

Dear All,

Hope github is best place as many people do.
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/2/17, Dumitrescu, Cristian <cristian.dumitrescu@intel.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [dpdk-dev] [RFC] proposal of allowing personal/project repos	on	DPDK.org
 To: "Thomas Monjalon" <thomas@monjalon.net>, "Bie, Tiwei" <tiwei.bie@intel.com>
 Cc: "dev@dpdk.org" <dev@dpdk.org>, "Richardson, Bruce" <bruce.richardson@intel.com>, "yuanhan.liu@linux.intel.com" <yuanhan.liu@linux.intel.com>, "Ananyev, Konstantin" <konstantin.ananyev@intel.com>
 Date: Friday, June 2, 2017, 10:37 PM
 
 > Why? Do you need to host a
 repo on dpdk.org to try a new idea?
 > 
 
 Prototyping new DPDK-related
 ideas and sharing them with DPDK community, with some of
 them likely to eventually make their way into DPDK once
 accepted and mature enough.
 
 
 > I am against adding some
 user repos in this list:
 >     http://dpdk.org/browse/
 > I think the list of official repos must be
 kept light for good visibility.
 
 We could have a single project called sandbox
 mentioned in this list; whoever interested, needs to drill
 down into this one?
 
 > 
 > But we can imagine a forge for users at a
 different location like
 >     http://dpdk.org/users/
 > However why not using another public forge
 for this need?
 
 Easier
 to share DPDK related ideas on dpdk.org rather than other
 places.