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From: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>
To: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: "open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
	Linux Media Mailing List <linux-media@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Including images on Sphinx documents
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:39:41 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1479724781.8662.18.camel@sipsolutions.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20161119101543.12b89563@lwn.net>

On Sat, 2016-11-19 at 10:15 -0700, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> 
> I don't know what the ultimate source of these images is (Mauro,
> perhaps you could shed some light there?).

I'd argue that it probably no longer matters. Whether it's xfig, svg,
graphviz originally etc. - the source is probably long lost. Recreating
these images in any other format is probably not very difficult for
most or almost all of them.

> Rather than beating our heads against the wall trying to convert
> between various image formats, maybe we need to take a step
> back.  We're trying to build better documentation, and there is
> certainly a place for diagrams and such in that
> documentation.  Johannes was asking about it for the 802.11 docs, and
> I know Paul has run into these issues with the RCU docs as
> well.  Might there be a tool or an extension out there that would
> allow us to express these diagrams in a text-friendly, editable
> form?
> 
> With some effort, I bet we could get rid of a number of the images,
> and perhaps end up with something that makes sense when read in the
> .rst source files as an extra benefit. 

I tend to agree, and I think that having this readable in the text
would be good.

You had pointed me to this plugin before
https://pythonhosted.org/sphinxcontrib-aafig/

but I don't think it can actually represent any of the pictures.

Some surely could be represented directly by having the graphviz source
inside the rst file:
http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/1.4.8/ext/graphviz.html

(that's even an included plugin, no need to install anything extra)

graphviz is actually quite powerful, so I suspect things like
dvbstb.png can be represented there, perhaps not pixel-identically, but
at least semantically equivalently.


However, I don't think we'll actually find a catch-all solution, so we
need to continue this discussion here for a fallback anyway - as you
stated (I snipped that quote, sorry), a picture describing the video
formats will likely not be representable in text.


As far as my use-case for sequence diagrams is concerned, I'd really
like to see this integrated with the toolchain since the source format
for them is in fact a text format.

johannes

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>
To: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Media Mailing List <linux-media@vger.kernel.org>,
	ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
	"open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Including images on Sphinx documents
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:39:41 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1479724781.8662.18.camel@sipsolutions.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20161119101543.12b89563@lwn.net>

On Sat, 2016-11-19 at 10:15 -0700, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> 
> I don't know what the ultimate source of these images is (Mauro,
> perhaps you could shed some light there?).

I'd argue that it probably no longer matters. Whether it's xfig, svg,
graphviz originally etc. - the source is probably long lost. Recreating
these images in any other format is probably not very difficult for
most or almost all of them.

> Rather than beating our heads against the wall trying to convert
> between various image formats, maybe we need to take a step
> back.  We're trying to build better documentation, and there is
> certainly a place for diagrams and such in that
> documentation.  Johannes was asking about it for the 802.11 docs, and
> I know Paul has run into these issues with the RCU docs as
> well.  Might there be a tool or an extension out there that would
> allow us to express these diagrams in a text-friendly, editable
> form?
> 
> With some effort, I bet we could get rid of a number of the images,
> and perhaps end up with something that makes sense when read in the
> .rst source files as an extra benefit. 

I tend to agree, and I think that having this readable in the text
would be good.

You had pointed me to this plugin before
https://pythonhosted.org/sphinxcontrib-aafig/

but I don't think it can actually represent any of the pictures.

Some surely could be represented directly by having the graphviz source
inside the rst file:
http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/1.4.8/ext/graphviz.html

(that's even an included plugin, no need to install anything extra)

graphviz is actually quite powerful, so I suspect things like
dvbstb.png can be represented there, perhaps not pixel-identically, but
at least semantically equivalently.


However, I don't think we'll actually find a catch-all solution, so we
need to continue this discussion here for a fallback anyway - as you
stated (I snipped that quote, sorry), a picture describing the video
formats will likely not be representable in text.


As far as my use-case for sequence diagrams is concerned, I'd really
like to see this integrated with the toolchain since the source format
for them is in fact a text format.

johannes

  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-11-21 10:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-11-07  9:55 [Ksummit-discuss] Including images on Sphinx documents Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-07  9:55 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-07 10:53 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Jani Nikula
2016-11-07 10:53   ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-07 11:46   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-07 11:46     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-07 17:05     ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Josh Triplett
2016-11-07 17:05       ` Josh Triplett
2016-11-08 10:50       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-08 10:50         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-16 16:03         ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-11-16 16:03           ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-11-16 20:26           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-16 20:26             ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-17 11:07             ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-11-17 11:07               ` Arnd Bergmann
2016-11-17 11:28               ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-17 11:28                 ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-17 12:39                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-17 12:39                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-17 14:52               ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-11-17 14:52                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-11-17 15:16                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-17 15:16                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-17 15:28                   ` Johannes Berg
2016-11-17 15:28                     ` Johannes Berg
2016-11-17 16:25                   ` James Bottomley
2016-11-17 16:25                     ` James Bottomley
2016-11-17 15:32               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-17 15:32                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-17 16:02               ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-17 16:02                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-17 16:04                 ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-17 16:04                   ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-18  9:15                 ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-18  9:15                   ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-18 10:23                   ` Daniel Vetter
2016-11-18 10:23                     ` Daniel Vetter
2016-11-19 17:15                 ` Jonathan Corbet
2016-11-19 17:15                   ` Jonathan Corbet
2016-11-19 17:38                   ` Andrew Lunn
2016-11-19 17:38                     ` Andrew Lunn
2016-11-19 17:50                   ` Bart Van Assche
2016-11-19 17:50                     ` Bart Van Assche
2016-11-19 17:50                     ` Bart Van Assche
2016-11-19 17:55                   ` David Woodhouse
2016-11-19 17:55                     ` David Woodhouse
2016-11-19 18:45                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-19 18:45                       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-19 22:59                       ` David Woodhouse
2016-11-19 22:59                         ` David Woodhouse
2016-11-20 14:26                         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-20 14:26                           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-19 20:54                   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-19 20:54                     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-19 21:09                     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-19 21:09                       ` Linus Torvalds
2016-11-21 10:39                   ` Johannes Berg [this message]
2016-11-21 10:39                     ` Johannes Berg
2016-11-21 14:06                     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-21 14:06                       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-21 15:41                       ` James Bottomley
2016-11-21 15:41                         ` James Bottomley
2016-11-21 15:44                         ` Johannes Berg
2016-11-21 15:44                           ` Johannes Berg
2016-11-21 15:47                           ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-21 15:47                             ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-21 19:48                           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-21 19:48                             ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-13 21:00     ` Jonathan Corbet
2016-11-13 21:00       ` Jonathan Corbet
2016-11-14 14:16       ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-14 14:16         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-09 12:27   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-09 12:27     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-07 17:01 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Josh Triplett
2016-11-07 17:01   ` Josh Triplett
2016-11-09  9:22   ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-09  9:22     ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-09 11:16     ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-09 11:16       ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-09 11:27       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-09 11:27         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-09 11:45         ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-09 11:45           ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-09 11:27       ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-09 11:27         ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-09 11:58         ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-09 11:58           ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-09 22:11           ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-09 22:11             ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-10 10:35             ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-10 10:35               ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-11 11:22               ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-11 11:22                 ` Jani Nikula
2016-11-11 11:45                 ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-11 11:45                   ` Markus Heiser
2016-11-11  9:34           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-11  9:34             ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-13 19:52 ` Jonathan Corbet
2016-11-13 19:52   ` Jonathan Corbet
2016-11-14 13:30   ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2016-11-14 13:30     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab

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