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From: "Jan Lübbe" <jlu@pengutronix.de>
To: Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-fscrypt@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Dmitry Kasatkin <dmitry.kasatkin@gmail.com>,
	Michael Halcrow <mhalcrow@google.com>,
	Victor Hsieh <victorhsieh@google.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/10] fs-verity: filesystem-level integrity protection
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 22:05:23 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1535745923.25742.1.camel@pengutronix.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180824161642.1144-1-ebiggers@kernel.org>

On Fri, 2018-08-24 at 09:16 -0700, Eric Biggers wrote:
[...]
> Since fs-verity provides the Merkle tree root hash in constant time and
> verifies data blocks on-demand, it is useful for efficiently verifying
> the authenticity of, or "appraising", large files of which only a small
> portion may be accessed -- such as Android application (APK) files.  It
> can also be useful in "audit" use cases where file hashes are logged.
> fs-verity also provides better protection against malicious disk
> firmware than an ahead-of-time hash, since fs-verity re-verifies data
> each time it's paged in.
[...]
> Feedback on the design and implementation is greatly appreciated.

Hi,

I've looked at the series and the slides linked form the recent lwn.net
article, but I'm not sure how fs-verity intends to protect against
malicious firmware (or offline modification). Similar to IMA/EVM, fs-
verity doesn't seem to include the name/location of the file into it's
verification. So the firmware/an attacker could replace one fs-verity-
protected file with another (maybe a trusted system APK with another
one for which a vulnerability was discovered, or /sbin/init with
/bin/sh).

Is the expected root hash of the file provided from somewhere else, so
this is not a problem on Android? Or is this problem out-of-scope for
fs-verity?

For IMA/EVM, there were patches by Dmitry to address this class of
attacks (they were not merged, though):
https://lwn.net/Articles/574221/

Thanks,
Jan

[1] https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/fs-ve
rify_Mike-Halcrow_Eric-Biggers.pdf
-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
Industrial Linux Solutions                 | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim, Germany | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
Amtsgericht Hildesheim, HRA 2686           | Fax:   +49-5121-206917-5555 |

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Jan Lübbe" <jlu@pengutronix.de>
To: Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-fscrypt@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Dmitry Kasatkin <dmitry.kasatkin@gmail.com>,
	Michael Halcrow <mhalcrow@google.com>,
	Victor Hsieh <victorhsieh@google.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/10] fs-verity: filesystem-level integrity protection
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 22:05:23 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1535745923.25742.1.camel@pengutronix.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180824161642.1144-1-ebiggers@kernel.org>

On Fri, 2018-08-24 at 09:16 -0700, Eric Biggers wrote:
[...]
> Since fs-verity provides the Merkle tree root hash in constant time and
> verifies data blocks on-demand, it is useful for efficiently verifying
> the authenticity of, or "appraising", large files of which only a small
> portion may be accessed -- such as Android application (APK) files.  It
> can also be useful in "audit" use cases where file hashes are logged.
> fs-verity also provides better protection against malicious disk
> firmware than an ahead-of-time hash, since fs-verity re-verifies data
> each time it's paged in.
[...]
> Feedback on the design and implementation is greatly appreciated.

Hi,

I've looked at the series and the slides linked form the recent lwn.net
article, but I'm not sure how fs-verity intends to protect against
malicious firmware (or offline modification). Similar to IMA/EVM, fs-
verity doesn't seem to include the name/location of the file into it's
verification. So the firmware/an attacker could replace one fs-verity-
protected file with another (maybe a trusted system APK with another
one for which a vulnerability was discovered, or /sbin/init with
/bin/sh).

Is the expected root hash of the file provided from somewhere else, so
this is not a problem on Android? Or is this problem out-of-scope for
fs-verity?

For IMA/EVM, there were patches by Dmitry to address this class of
attacks (they were not merged, though):
https://lwn.net/Articles/574221/

Thanks,
Jan

[1] https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/fs-ve
rify_Mike-Halcrow_Eric-Biggers.pdf
-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                           |                             |
Industrial Linux Solutions                 | http://www.pengutronix.de/  |
Peiner Str. 6-8, 31137 Hildesheim, Germany | Phone: +49-5121-206917-0    |
Amtsgericht Hildesheim, HRA 2686           | Fax:   +49-5121-206917-5555 |

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-08-31 20:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 81+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-08-24 16:16 [RFC PATCH 00/10] fs-verity: filesystem-level integrity protection Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [f2fs-dev] [RFC PATCH 01/10] fs-verity: add setup code, UAPI, and Kconfig Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 17:28   ` Randy Dunlap
2018-08-24 17:28     ` Randy Dunlap
2018-08-24 17:42   ` Colin Walters
2018-08-24 22:45     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-25  4:48     ` Eric Biggers
2018-09-14 13:15       ` Colin Walters
2018-09-14 16:21         ` Eric Biggers
2018-09-15 15:27           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-26 16:22   ` Chuck Lever
2018-08-26 16:22     ` Chuck Lever
2018-08-26 17:17     ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [f2fs-dev] [RFC PATCH 02/10] fs-verity: add data verification hooks for ->readpages() Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-25  2:29   ` [f2fs-dev] " Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  2:29     ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  2:29     ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  3:45     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-25  3:45       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-25  4:00       ` [f2fs-dev] " Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  4:00         ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  5:06         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-25  7:33           ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  7:33             ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  7:33             ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  7:33             ` [f2fs-dev] " Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  7:55             ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  7:55               ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  4:16     ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-25  4:16       ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-25  6:31       ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  6:31         ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  6:31         ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  7:18         ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-25  7:43           ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25  7:43             ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-25 17:06             ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-25 17:06               ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-08-26 13:44               ` Gao Xiang
2018-09-02  2:35       ` Olof Johansson
2018-08-26 15:55   ` Chuck Lever
2018-08-26 17:04     ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-26 17:44       ` Gao Xiang
2018-08-26 17:44         ` Gao Xiang via Linux-f2fs-devel
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [RFC PATCH 03/10] fs-verity: implement FS_IOC_ENABLE_VERITY ioctl Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [RFC PATCH 04/10] fs-verity: implement FS_IOC_MEASURE_VERITY ioctl Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [RFC PATCH 05/10] fs-verity: add SHA-512 support Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [f2fs-dev] [RFC PATCH 06/10] fs-verity: add CRC-32C support Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [f2fs-dev] [RFC PATCH 07/10] fs-verity: support builtin file signatures Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [RFC PATCH 08/10] ext4: add basic fs-verity support Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [f2fs-dev] [RFC PATCH 09/10] ext4: add fs-verity read support Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16 ` [RFC PATCH 10/10] f2fs: fs-verity support Eric Biggers
2018-08-24 16:16   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-25  5:54   ` [f2fs-dev] " Chao Yu
2018-08-25  5:54     ` Chao Yu
2018-08-25  5:54     ` Chao Yu
2018-08-26 17:35     ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-27 15:54       ` Chao Yu
2018-08-28  7:27         ` Jaegeuk Kim
2018-08-28  9:20           ` Chao Yu
2018-08-28  9:20             ` Chao Yu
2018-08-28 17:01             ` Jaegeuk Kim
2018-08-29  1:22               ` Chao Yu
2018-08-29  1:22                 ` Chao Yu
2018-08-29  1:22                 ` Chao Yu
2018-08-29  1:43                 ` Jaegeuk Kim
2018-08-31 20:05 ` Jan Lübbe [this message]
2018-08-31 20:05   ` [RFC PATCH 00/10] fs-verity: filesystem-level integrity protection Jan Lübbe
2018-08-31 21:39   ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-31 21:39     ` Eric Biggers
2018-08-31 21:39     ` Eric Biggers

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