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From: Jens Axboe <axboe-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
To: Erik Slagter <erik-KW7PGP3XNp7a5EbDDlwbIw@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Randy Dunlap
	<randy_d_dunlap-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>,
	Jeff Garzik <jgarzik-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	hch-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org,
	mjg59-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org,
	linux-ide-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-scsi-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: RFC: ACPI/scsi/libata integration and hotswap
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:30:53 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20051209113053.GG26185@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1134125145.27633.32.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>

On Fri, Dec 09 2005, Erik Slagter wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 11:39 +0100, Jens Axboe wrote:
> 
> > > IMHO available infrastructure (and hardware abstraction!) should be used
> > > instead of being stubborn and pretend we know everything about any
> > > hardware.
> > 
> > It's not about being stubborn, it's about maintaining and working on a
> > clean design. The developers have to do that, not the users. So forgive
> > people for being a little cautious about shuffling all sorts of ACPI
> > into the scsi core and/or drivers. We always need to think long term
> > here.
> > 
> > Users don't care about the maintainability and cleanliness of the code,
> > they really just want it to work. Which is perfectly understandable.
> 
> I perfectly understand that, what I do object against, is rejecting a
> concept (like this) totally because the developers(?) do not like the
> mechanism that's used (although ACPI is used everywhere else in the
> kernel). At least there might be some discussion where this sort of code
> belongs to make the design clean and easily maintainable, instead of
> instantly completely rejecting the concept, because OP simply doesn't
> like acpi.

Not to put words in anyones mouth, but the rejection is mainly based on
the concept of stuffing acpi directly into the SCSI core where it
clearly doesn't belong. I don't think anyone is against utilizing ACPI
(if useful/required) for suspend+resume as a concept, even if lots of
people have reservations on ACPI in generel.

-- 
Jens Axboe



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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jens Axboe <axboe@suse.de>
To: Erik Slagter <erik@slagter.name>
Cc: Randy Dunlap <randy_d_dunlap@linux.intel.com>,
	Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@pobox.com>,
	hch@infradead.org, mjg59@srcf.ucam.org,
	linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, acpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: RFC: ACPI/scsi/libata integration and hotswap
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:30:53 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20051209113053.GG26185@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1134125145.27633.32.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Dec 09 2005, Erik Slagter wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 11:39 +0100, Jens Axboe wrote:
> 
> > > IMHO available infrastructure (and hardware abstraction!) should be used
> > > instead of being stubborn and pretend we know everything about any
> > > hardware.
> > 
> > It's not about being stubborn, it's about maintaining and working on a
> > clean design. The developers have to do that, not the users. So forgive
> > people for being a little cautious about shuffling all sorts of ACPI
> > into the scsi core and/or drivers. We always need to think long term
> > here.
> > 
> > Users don't care about the maintainability and cleanliness of the code,
> > they really just want it to work. Which is perfectly understandable.
> 
> I perfectly understand that, what I do object against, is rejecting a
> concept (like this) totally because the developers(?) do not like the
> mechanism that's used (although ACPI is used everywhere else in the
> kernel). At least there might be some discussion where this sort of code
> belongs to make the design clean and easily maintainable, instead of
> instantly completely rejecting the concept, because OP simply doesn't
> like acpi.

Not to put words in anyones mouth, but the rejection is mainly based on
the concept of stuffing acpi directly into the SCSI core where it
clearly doesn't belong. I don't think anyone is against utilizing ACPI
(if useful/required) for suspend+resume as a concept, even if lots of
people have reservations on ACPI in generel.

-- 
Jens Axboe


  parent reply	other threads:[~2005-12-09 11:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 74+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-12-08  3:02 RFC: ACPI/scsi/libata integration and hotswap Matthew Garrett
2005-12-08  9:15 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-08 13:26   ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-08 13:33     ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-08 13:39       ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-08 13:44         ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-08 17:18           ` Erik Slagter
2005-12-08 20:43             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-08 21:03               ` Dominic Ijichi
2005-12-08 21:09                 ` Jeff Garzik
     [not found]                   ` <4398A0F9.9050900-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-08 21:34                     ` Dominic Ijichi
2005-12-08 21:34                       ` Dominic Ijichi
2005-12-08 21:31               ` Randy Dunlap
2005-12-09  9:45                 ` Erik Slagter
2005-12-09 10:39                   ` Jens Axboe
2005-12-09 10:45                     ` Erik Slagter
2005-12-09 11:27                       ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-09 11:35                         ` Erik Slagter
2005-12-09 11:40                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-09 11:46                           ` Jens Axboe
2005-12-09 11:55                             ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                               ` <20051209115511.GA25842-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-09 13:22                                 ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2005-12-09 13:22                                   ` Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
2005-12-09 12:01                             ` Erik Slagter
     [not found]                               ` <1134129692.27633.58.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-09 12:07                                 ` Jens Axboe
2005-12-09 12:07                                   ` Jens Axboe
2005-12-10  2:19                         ` Douglas Gilbert
     [not found]                           ` <439A3B15.5010608-c4O3jRSCrQ+sTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-14 20:52                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2005-12-14 20:52                               ` [ACPI] " Matthew Wilcox
     [not found]                       ` <1134125145.27633.32.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-09 11:30                         ` Jens Axboe [this message]
2005-12-09 11:30                           ` Jens Axboe
2005-12-09  3:28               ` Mark Lord
2005-12-09 11:29                 ` Jeff Garzik
     [not found]                   ` <43996A84.5020307-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-10  4:01                     ` Mark Lord
2005-12-10  4:01                       ` Mark Lord
2005-12-08 13:52         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-08 14:07           ` [ACPI] " Alan Cox
2005-12-08 14:14             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-08 14:30               ` Alan Cox
2005-12-08 14:43                 ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-08 14:53                   ` Alan Cox
2005-12-09 11:42                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-08 14:12           ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-08 14:01         ` Alan Cox
2005-12-08 14:18           ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-08 14:33             ` Alan Cox
2005-12-08 14:52               ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-08 14:55                 ` Alan Cox
2005-12-08 17:19                 ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-09 11:42                   ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                     ` <20051209114246.GB16945-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-09 11:49                       ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-09 11:49                         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-09 11:52                         ` Matthew Garrett
     [not found]                           ` <20051209115235.GB25771-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>
2005-12-09 11:58                             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-09 11:58                               ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-09 12:11                               ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-09 12:16                                 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-09 12:24                                   ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-10  0:40                                     ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-10  2:34                                       ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-10  2:39                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-10  2:47                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-10  2:41                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-10  2:50                                           ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-10  2:57                                             ` Jeff Garzik
2005-12-10  3:47                                               ` [ACPI] " Andrew Grover
2005-12-12  0:38                                           ` Alan Cox
2005-12-09 11:50                     ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-09 11:55                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-12-13 18:14 ` Randy Dunlap
2005-12-13 18:26   ` Matthew Garrett
2005-12-13 19:07     ` Randy Dunlap
2005-12-08 13:57 Salyzyn, Mark
2005-12-08 13:57 ` Salyzyn, Mark

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