[linux-lvm] LVM - History

[linux-lvm] LVM - History

[k]

History of LVM

I am researching about LVM, and looking for historical
data, such as; how did it get started, who was
involved, information about the functionality of the
first release ( Was it supporting raid, Size
restrictions, etc�), and any other historical data.

I appreciate any suggestions you might have.

Thanks!
Shi kam

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[Greg Freemyer]

On 2/20/07, k <shikam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> History of LVM
>
> I am researching about LVM, and looking for historical
> data, such as; how did it get started, who was
> involved, information about the functionality of the
> first release ( Was it supporting raid, Size
> restrictions, etc�), and any other historical data.
>
> I appreciate any suggestions you might have.
>
> Thanks!
> Shi kam

A key point was 3 years ago when Redhat bought Sistina.

See http://www.open-mag.com/features/Vol_90/Sistina/Sistina.htm.

Also see http://lwn.net/2000/0224/kernel.php3 for when it first got
into the vanilla kernel.

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer
The Norcross Group
Forensics for the 21st Century

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[Georges Giralt]

Greg Freemyer a �crit :
> On 2/20/07, k <shikam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> History of LVM
>>
>> I am researching about LVM, and looking for historical
>> data, such as; how did it get started, who was
>> involved, information about the functionality of the
>> first release ( Was it supporting raid, Size
>> restrictions, etc�), and any other historical data.
>>
>> I appreciate any suggestions you might have.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Shi kam
> 
> A key point was 3 years ago when Redhat bought Sistina.
> 
> See http://www.open-mag.com/features/Vol_90/Sistina/Sistina.htm.
> 
> Also see http://lwn.net/2000/0224/kernel.php3 for when it first got
> into the vanilla kernel.
> 
> Greg
Hi !
If you plan to learn who invented LVM, you have to know that IMHO IBM 
was the first company to include LVM into it's Unix flavor called Aix.
Later, HP bought a software license and implemented it into HP-UX with 
modification. The HP version is quite similar as the one we have in Linux.
Also, I think Veritas software has/had a comercial LVM version to fit 
the Veritas journaled file system. I don't know if this was devised from 
IBM research or a new implementation.
Sistina software inplemented LVM into the Linux Kernel by making 
something looking like HP flavor of LVM. But due to PC hardware 
anlimitations, the LVM on Linux still lacks the ability to boot from an 
LVM root, lacks mirroring (well, true mirroring....) and things like that...
I'm not sure about the exact status of Linux LVM on other platforms than 
PC hardware...
Of course, I'm not an historian, and I do not pretend to know eery Unix 
flavor on the planet (even if I've put my hands on some really old/or 
arcane) so you'd better check with the cited companies to correct me if 
I'm wrong...
Regards
-- 
Ce message est constitu� d'au moins 50 % d'�lectrons recycl�s.
S'il vous pla�t, aidez nous � conserver nos ressources,
recyclez vos �lectrons !

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[James Parsons]

Georges Giralt wrote:

> Greg Freemyer a �crit :
>
>> On 2/20/07, k <shikam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> History of LVM
>>>
>>> I am researching about LVM, and looking for historical
>>> data, such as; how did it get started, who was
>>> involved, information about the functionality of the
>>> first release ( Was it supporting raid, Size
>>> restrictions, etc�), and any other historical data.
>>>
>>> I appreciate any suggestions you might have.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Shi kam
>>
>>
>> A key point was 3 years ago when Redhat bought Sistina.
>>
>> See http://www.open-mag.com/features/Vol_90/Sistina/Sistina.htm.
>>
>> Also see http://lwn.net/2000/0224/kernel.php3 for when it first got
>> into the vanilla kernel.
>>
>> Greg
>
> Hi !
> If you plan to learn who invented LVM, you have to know that IMHO IBM 
> was the first company to include LVM into it's Unix flavor called Aix.
> Later, HP bought a software license and implemented it into HP-UX with 
> modification. The HP version is quite similar as the one we have in 
> Linux.
> Also, I think Veritas software has/had a comercial LVM version to fit 
> the Veritas journaled file system. I don't know if this was devised 
> from IBM research or a new implementation.
> Sistina software inplemented LVM into the Linux Kernel by making 
> something looking like HP flavor of LVM. But due to PC hardware 
> anlimitations, the LVM on Linux still lacks the ability to boot from 
> an LVM root, lacks mirroring (well, true mirroring....) and things 
> like that...
> I'm not sure about the exact status of Linux LVM on other platforms 
> than PC hardware...
> Of course, I'm not an historian, and I do not pretend to know eery 
> Unix flavor on the planet (even if I've put my hands on some really 
> old/or arcane) so you'd better check with the cited companies to 
> correct me if I'm wrong...
> Regards

No discussion of LVM history should take place without mentioning Heinz 
Mauelshagen, who did some of the earliest LVM on Linux work. Thanks, lvmguy.

-J

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[Mark H. Wood]

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Maybe you should define the scope of "LVM" for your purposes.  The
basic idea goes waaaaay back.  Netware 4 had the ability to divvy up a
partition, slice off pieces, and stick them together into one or more
logical volumes.  Most mainframe and mini OSes could at least paste
multiple physical disk volumes together to form larger logical
volumes.  The ANSI X3.27 tape label standard from the 1970s or so (my
copy is at home now) (last edition is from 1987) defines a way to do
this with *open-reel tapes*.

It's interesting to look at how the idea developed over time.  Logical
volume management started out as a way to make a single large logical
volume out of multiple rather dinky physical volumes.  Nowadays it's
typically used in the opposite fashion:  take a huge physical volume
and carve it into multiple smaller logical volumes.  You can still
make logical volumes bigger than the biggest available physical
volume, though, and there are sites which do.  (I haven't needed that
much storage in a single block address space since the 1990s, but YMMV.)

-- 
Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer   mwood@IUPUI.Edu
Typically when a software vendor says that a product is "intuitive" he
means the exact opposite.


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Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[k]

Thaks for your help; my goal is to document LVM, from
an architecture, and source code point of views:
-The architecture will probably go back to 70�s or
early 80�s.
-The Source code will start from when LVM, started to
exist as an open source product (1998??) , and the
product that inspired the first release.

Do you know if IBM licensed, LVM to HP, and also
released it to the open source for linux developments?

Did Linux (Sistina) LVM derived from the IBM's LVM? Is
HP's LVM also drived from IBM's LVM? 

Regards
Shikam
--- "Mark H. Wood" <mwood@IUPUI.Edu> wrote:

> Maybe you should define the scope of "LVM" for your
> purposes.  The
> basic idea goes waaaaay back.  Netware 4 had the
> ability to divvy up a
> partition, slice off pieces, and stick them together
> into one or more
> logical volumes.  Most mainframe and mini OSes could
> at least paste
> multiple physical disk volumes together to form
> larger logical
> volumes.  The ANSI X3.27 tape label standard from
> the 1970s or so (my
> copy is at home now) (last edition is from 1987)
> defines a way to do
> this with *open-reel tapes*.
> 
> It's interesting to look at how the idea developed
> over time.  Logical
> volume management started out as a way to make a
> single large logical
> volume out of multiple rather dinky physical
> volumes.  Nowadays it's
> typically used in the opposite fashion:  take a huge
> physical volume
> and carve it into multiple smaller logical volumes. 
> You can still
> make logical volumes bigger than the biggest
> available physical
> volume, though, and there are sites which do.  (I
> haven't needed that
> much storage in a single block address space since
> the 1990s, but YMMV.)
> 
> -- 
> Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer  
> mwood@IUPUI.Edu
> Typically when a software vendor says that a product
> is "intuitive" he
> means the exact opposite.
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> linux-lvm mailing list
> linux-lvm@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
> read the LVM HOW-TO at
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[Luca Berra]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 12:40:25AM -0800, k wrote:
>Do you know if IBM licensed, LVM to HP, and also
>released it to the open source for linux developments?
i don't believe IBM ever released their lvm as open-source.

>Did Linux (Sistina) LVM derived from the IBM's LVM? Is
>HP's LVM also drived from IBM's LVM? 

Sistina LVM is based on HP-UX LVM, in the sense that it was designed to
have a similar command syntax and data structure. but the code does not
have any connection to any other LVM.

regards,
L.

-- 
Luca Berra -- bluca@comedia.it
        Communication Media & Services S.r.l.
 /"\
 \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
  X        AGAINST HTML MAIL
 / \

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[k]

>>i don't believe IBM ever released their lvm as
open-source.

Luca,
This is where I got the idea about IBM and LVM
releases..

http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/1848/1/
"On the other hand, IBM has released the source code
to its Journaled File System (JFS) and Logical Volume
Manager (LVM) from the AIX operating system so that
these technologies can be deployed on Linux. The
company has not publicly stated which other products,
if any, will be released as Open Source code in the
near future. All of the kernel and GNU C changes,
however, are released as Open Source."


http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=959686&admit=-682735245+1172394847567+28353475

"I have never worked on AIX, but during my
participation in this forum I have many times read
that HP's LVM is drived from IBM's LVM."



--- Luca Berra <bluca@comedia.it> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 12:40:25AM -0800, k wrote:
> >Do you know if IBM licensed, LVM to HP, and also
> >released it to the open source for linux
> developments?
> i don't believe IBM ever released their lvm as
> open-source.
> 
> >Did Linux (Sistina) LVM derived from the IBM's LVM?
> Is
> >HP's LVM also drived from IBM's LVM? 
> 
> Sistina LVM is based on HP-UX LVM, in the sense that
> it was designed to
> have a similar command syntax and data structure.
> but the code does not
> have any connection to any other LVM.
> 
> regards,
> L.
> 
> -- 
> Luca Berra -- bluca@comedia.it
>         Communication Media & Services S.r.l.
>  /"\
>  \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
>   X        AGAINST HTML MAIL
>  / \
> 
> _______________________________________________
> linux-lvm mailing list
> linux-lvm@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
> read the LVM HOW-TO at
> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/
> 

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[Luca Berra]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 01:17:13AM -0800, k wrote:
>>>i don't believe IBM ever released their lvm as
>open-source.
>
>Luca,
>This is where I got the idea about IBM and LVM
>releases..
>
>http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/1848/1/
>"On the other hand, IBM has released the source code
>to its Journaled File System (JFS) and Logical Volume
>Manager (LVM) from the AIX operating system so that
>these technologies can be deployed on Linux. The
>company has not publicly stated which other products,
>if any, will be released as Open Source code in the
>near future. All of the kernel and GNU C changes,
>however, are released as Open Source."

I know jfs is part of the linux kernel, i never saw ibm lvm in there.
that's it.

>http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=959686&admit=-682735245+1172394847567+28353475
>
>"I have never worked on AIX, but during my
>participation in this forum I have many times read
>that HP's LVM is drived from IBM's LVM."

i never found any proof that supports the above, but honestly i never
cared much.
If my memory serves me well there is no IBM or HP copyright in linux
lvm1.

-- 
Luca Berra -- bluca@comedia.it
        Communication Media & Services S.r.l.
 /"\
 \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
  X        AGAINST HTML MAIL
 / \

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[k]

Thanks!


--- Luca Berra <bluca@comedia.it> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 01:17:13AM -0800, k wrote:
> >>>i don't believe IBM ever released their lvm as
> >open-source.
> >
> >Luca,
> >This is where I got the idea about IBM and LVM
> >releases..
> >
>
>http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/1848/1/
> >"On the other hand, IBM has released the source
> code
> >to its Journaled File System (JFS) and Logical
> Volume
> >Manager (LVM) from the AIX operating system so that
> >these technologies can be deployed on Linux. The
> >company has not publicly stated which other
> products,
> >if any, will be released as Open Source code in the
> >near future. All of the kernel and GNU C changes,
> >however, are released as Open Source."
> 
> I know jfs is part of the linux kernel, i never saw
> ibm lvm in there.
> that's it.
> 
>
>http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=959686&admit=-682735245+1172394847567+28353475
> >
> >"I have never worked on AIX, but during my
> >participation in this forum I have many times read
> >that HP's LVM is drived from IBM's LVM."
> 
> i never found any proof that supports the above, but
> honestly i never
> cared much.
> If my memory serves me well there is no IBM or HP
> copyright in linux
> lvm1.
> 
> -- 
> Luca Berra -- bluca@comedia.it
>         Communication Media & Services S.r.l.
>  /"\
>  \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
>   X        AGAINST HTML MAIL
>  / \
> 
> _______________________________________________
> linux-lvm mailing list
> linux-lvm@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
> read the LVM HOW-TO at
> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/
> 

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[Greg Freemyer]

On 2/25/07, k <shikam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>i don't believe IBM ever released their lvm as
> open-source.
>
> Luca,
> This is where I got the idea about IBM and LVM
> releases..
>
> http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/1848/1/
> "On the other hand, IBM has released the source code
> to its Journaled File System (JFS) and Logical Volume
> Manager (LVM) from the AIX operating system so that
> these technologies can be deployed on Linux. The
> company has not publicly stated which other products,
> if any, will be released as Open Source code in the
> near future. All of the kernel and GNU C changes,
> however, are released as Open Source."

I'm pretty sure IBM's opensourced lvm is named EVMS in the Linux world.

I don't know which became available first for linux: Sistina LVM vs.
IBMs Opensourced EVMS

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer
The Norcross Group
Forensics for the 21st Century

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[John Stoffel]

k> Thaks for your help; my goal is to document LVM, from
k> an architecture, and source code point of views:
k> -The architecture will probably go back to 70�s or
k> early 80�s.

It goes back even earlier than that AFAIK

k> -The Source code will start from when LVM, started to exist as an
k> open source product (1998??) , and the product that inspired the
k> first release.

Don't forget MD.  

k> Do you know if IBM licensed, LVM to HP, and also released it to the
k> open source for linux developments?

Nope, not that I know of.  I think it happened that people liked the
logic and commands of the HP LVM version and decided to implement
something similiar.

k> Did Linux (Sistina) LVM derived from the IBM's LVM? Is
k> HP's LVM also drived from IBM's LVM? 

Don't forget that there are also filesystems which had/have LVM like
options.  DEC's Advfs had the ability to carve up and use multiple
disks in a filesystem.  Very nice stuff.

Sun has two LVM like setups, the first is the Solstice DiskSuite
(originally Sun DiskSuite) tools, as well as their re-branded version
of Veritas' VxVM which they called Sun Volume Manager (SeVM I
think?).  

Veritas was the big non-iron vendor of LVM software for a long time.
They also had the VxFS filesystem which layered ontop of VxVM very
nicely and let you grow/shrink volumes and filesystems.  Expensive,
but solid.

Linux has had several different LVM like projects over the years.
There's the original Linux RAID stuff, evms (Enhanced Volume Manager
System) which is IBM based as I recall.  This morphed into the DM
(Device Mapper) stuff of today.

You also need to be careful how you define whan an LVM is.  Does it
include filesystems?  Or how about a filesystem with some (but not
all) LVM features?  

It's a funky roadmap, and I'm sure people would be interested to see
and comment on what you find out.

John

Re: [linux-lvm] LVM - History

[Philip Wright]

shikam@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> Thaks for your help; my goal is to document LVM, from
> an architecture, and source code point of views:
> -The architecture will probably go back to 70�s or
> early 80�s.
> -The Source code will start from when LVM, started to
> exist as an open source product (1998??) , and the
> product that inspired the first release.
> 
> Do you know if IBM licensed, LVM to HP, and also
> released it to the open source for linux developments?
> 
> Did Linux (Sistina) LVM derived from the IBM's LVM? Is
> HP's LVM also drived from IBM's LVM? 
> 
> Regards
> Shikam

My first experience with LVM (and the JFS filesystem)
was with IBM's excellent OS/2 operating system. I think
that LVM was a port from AIX, but JFS was a ground up
recode if memory serves. A quick google on LVM + OS/2
brings up loads of information.

-Philip