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From: Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Daniel Phillips <phillips@phunq.net>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, tux3@tux3.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [Tux3] Tux3 report: Tux3 Git tree available
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:14:13 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200903162114.14460.nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090316063830.GC6357@mit.edu>

On Monday 16 March 2009 17:38:30 Theodore Tso wrote:
> Dave,
>
> It wasn't my intention to say that XFS was bad; in fact, I thought I
> was actually complementing XFS by talking about some of the advanced
> features that XFS had (many of which I have always said that ext3 has,
> and some of which ext4 still does not have, and probably never will
> have).  I stand corrected on some of the details that I got wrong.
> What I was trying to say was that *if* (and perhaps I'm
> misunderstanding fsblock) that fsblock is requiring that as soon as a
> page is dirty, fsblock requests the filesystem to assign a block
> allocation to the buffers attached to the dirty page, that this would
> spike out delayed allocation, which would be unfortunate for *both*
> ext4 and XFS.
>
> But maybe I'm misunderstanding what fsblock is doing, and there isn't
> a problem here.

Yeah, Dave's understanding of fsblock is correct. I might have stated
things confusingly... fsblock allocates the in-memory fsblock metadata
structure (~= struct buffer_head) at the time of block dirtying. It
also asks the filesystem to respond to the dirtying event appropriately.
In the case of say ext2, this means allocating a block on disk. Wheras
XFS does the delalloc/reserve thing (yes, XFS appears to be working
with fsblock well enough to get this far).

fsblock really isn't too much different to buffer_head from an abstract
capability / functionality point of view except that it is often more
strict with things where I feel it makes sense.

So for this particular example; in buffer.c, buffers do tend to be
allocated when a page is dirtied, but not always, and even when they are,
they can get reclaimed while the page is still dirty. fsblock tigtens
this up.


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>
To: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, tux3@tux3.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Daniel Phillips <phillips@phunq.net>
Subject: Re: Tux3 report: Tux3 Git tree available
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:14:13 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200903162114.14460.nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090316063830.GC6357@mit.edu>

On Monday 16 March 2009 17:38:30 Theodore Tso wrote:
> Dave,
>
> It wasn't my intention to say that XFS was bad; in fact, I thought I
> was actually complementing XFS by talking about some of the advanced
> features that XFS had (many of which I have always said that ext3 has,
> and some of which ext4 still does not have, and probably never will
> have).  I stand corrected on some of the details that I got wrong.
> What I was trying to say was that *if* (and perhaps I'm
> misunderstanding fsblock) that fsblock is requiring that as soon as a
> page is dirty, fsblock requests the filesystem to assign a block
> allocation to the buffers attached to the dirty page, that this would
> spike out delayed allocation, which would be unfortunate for *both*
> ext4 and XFS.
>
> But maybe I'm misunderstanding what fsblock is doing, and there isn't
> a problem here.

Yeah, Dave's understanding of fsblock is correct. I might have stated
things confusingly... fsblock allocates the in-memory fsblock metadata
structure (~= struct buffer_head) at the time of block dirtying. It
also asks the filesystem to respond to the dirtying event appropriately.
In the case of say ext2, this means allocating a block on disk. Wheras
XFS does the delalloc/reserve thing (yes, XFS appears to be working
with fsblock well enough to get this far).

fsblock really isn't too much different to buffer_head from an abstract
capability / functionality point of view except that it is often more
strict with things where I feel it makes sense.

So for this particular example; in buffer.c, buffers do tend to be
allocated when a page is dirtied, but not always, and even when they are,
they can get reclaimed while the page is still dirty. fsblock tigtens
this up.

  reply	other threads:[~2009-03-16 10:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-03-11 16:25 Tux3 report: Tux3 Git tree available Daniel Phillips
2009-03-11 18:42 ` Andrew Morton
2009-03-12  5:38   ` [Tux3] " Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12  6:07     ` Andrew Morton
2009-03-12  8:33       ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12  8:47         ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12  9:00           ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12  9:10             ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 10:15               ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 11:03                 ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 12:24                   ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 12:32                     ` Matthew Wilcox
2009-03-12 12:45                       ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 12:45                         ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 13:12                         ` [Tux3] " Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 13:06                       ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 13:04                     ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 13:04                       ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 13:59                       ` [Tux3] " Matthew Wilcox
2009-03-12 14:19                         ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-15  3:24                         ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-15  3:24                           ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-15  3:50                           ` [Tux3] " Nick Piggin
2009-03-15  4:08                             ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-15  4:08                               ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-15  4:14                               ` [Tux3] " Nick Piggin
2009-03-15  2:41                       ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-15  3:45                         ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-15 21:44                           ` Theodore Tso
2009-03-15 22:41                             ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-16 10:32                               ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-16  5:12                             ` Dave Chinner
2009-03-16  5:12                               ` Dave Chinner
2009-03-16  6:38                               ` Theodore Tso
2009-03-16  6:38                                 ` Theodore Tso
2009-03-16 10:14                                 ` Nick Piggin [this message]
2009-03-16 10:14                                   ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 17:06                   ` [Tux3] " Theodore Tso
2009-03-13  9:32                     ` Nick Piggin
2009-03-12 17:00           ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-03-15  3:54             ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12  9:47         ` Sam Ravnborg
2009-03-12 10:25           ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 15:30         ` Diego Calleja
2009-03-12 16:54         ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-03-15  3:36           ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-15  4:26             ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-03-12 13:24       ` Andi Kleen
2009-03-12 21:24         ` [Tux3] " Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 23:38           ` Andi Kleen
2009-03-15  3:03             ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 21:02     ` Roland Dreier
2009-03-15  4:02       ` Daniel Phillips
2009-03-12 16:18   ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-03-12 20:02     ` Andrew Morton
2009-03-12 20:46       ` OGAWA Hirofumi
2009-03-15  3:58         ` Daniel Phillips

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