All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>
To: David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>
Cc: kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Balbir Singh <balbir@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [patch 5/7 -mm] oom: replace sysctls with quick mode
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:25:36 +0900 (JST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100216141539.72EF.A69D9226@jp.fujitsu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151411530.26927@chino.kir.corp.google.com>

> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> 
> > > Two VM sysctls, oom dump_tasks and oom_kill_allocating_task, were
> > > implemented for very large systems to avoid excessively long tasklist
> > > scans.  The former suppresses helpful diagnostic messages that are
> > > emitted for each thread group leader that are candidates for oom kill
> > > including their pid, uid, vm size, rss, oom_adj value, and name; this
> > > information is very helpful to users in understanding why a particular
> > > task was chosen for kill over others.  The latter simply kills current,
> > > the task triggering the oom condition, instead of iterating through the
> > > tasklist looking for the worst offender.
> > > 
> > > Both of these sysctls are combined into one for use on the aforementioned
> > > large systems: oom_kill_quick.  This disables the now-default
> > > oom_dump_tasks and kills current whenever the oom killer is called.
> > > 
> > > The oom killer rewrite is the perfect opportunity to combine both sysctls
> > > into one instead of carrying around the others for years to come for
> > > nothing else than legacy purposes.
> > 
> > "_quick" is always bad sysctl name.
> 
> Why?  It does exactly what it says: it kills current without doing an 
> expensive tasklist scan and suppresses the possibly long tasklist dump.  
> That's the oom killer's "quick mode."

Because, an administrator think "_quick" implies "please use it always".
plus, "quick" doesn't describe clealy meanings. oom_dump_tasks does.



> > instead, turnning oom_dump_tasks on
> > by default is better.
> > 
> 
> It's now on by default and can be disabled by enabling oom_kill_quick.
> 
> > plus, this patch makes unnecessary compatibility issue.
> > 
> 
> It's the perfect opportunity when totally rewriting the oom killer to 
> combine two sysctls with the exact same users into one.  Users will notice 
> that the tasklist is always dumped now (we're defaulting oom_dump_tasks 
> to be enabled), so there is no reason why we can't remove oom_dump_tasks, 
> we're just giving them a new way to disable it.  oom_kill_allocating_task 
> no longer always means what it once did: with the mempolicy-constrained 
> oom rewrite, we now iterate the tasklist for such cases to kill a task.  
> So users need to reassess whether this should be set if all tasks on the 
> system are constrained by mempolicies, a typical configuration for 
> extremely large systems.  

No.
Your explanation doesn't answer why this change don't cause any comatibility
issue to _all_ user. Merely "opportunity" doesn't allow we ignore real world user.
I had made some incompatibility patch too, but all one have unavoidable reason. 




WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>
To: David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>
Cc: kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Balbir Singh <balbir@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@suse.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [patch 5/7 -mm] oom: replace sysctls with quick mode
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:25:36 +0900 (JST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100216141539.72EF.A69D9226@jp.fujitsu.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151411530.26927@chino.kir.corp.google.com>

> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> 
> > > Two VM sysctls, oom dump_tasks and oom_kill_allocating_task, were
> > > implemented for very large systems to avoid excessively long tasklist
> > > scans.  The former suppresses helpful diagnostic messages that are
> > > emitted for each thread group leader that are candidates for oom kill
> > > including their pid, uid, vm size, rss, oom_adj value, and name; this
> > > information is very helpful to users in understanding why a particular
> > > task was chosen for kill over others.  The latter simply kills current,
> > > the task triggering the oom condition, instead of iterating through the
> > > tasklist looking for the worst offender.
> > > 
> > > Both of these sysctls are combined into one for use on the aforementioned
> > > large systems: oom_kill_quick.  This disables the now-default
> > > oom_dump_tasks and kills current whenever the oom killer is called.
> > > 
> > > The oom killer rewrite is the perfect opportunity to combine both sysctls
> > > into one instead of carrying around the others for years to come for
> > > nothing else than legacy purposes.
> > 
> > "_quick" is always bad sysctl name.
> 
> Why?  It does exactly what it says: it kills current without doing an 
> expensive tasklist scan and suppresses the possibly long tasklist dump.  
> That's the oom killer's "quick mode."

Because, an administrator think "_quick" implies "please use it always".
plus, "quick" doesn't describe clealy meanings. oom_dump_tasks does.



> > instead, turnning oom_dump_tasks on
> > by default is better.
> > 
> 
> It's now on by default and can be disabled by enabling oom_kill_quick.
> 
> > plus, this patch makes unnecessary compatibility issue.
> > 
> 
> It's the perfect opportunity when totally rewriting the oom killer to 
> combine two sysctls with the exact same users into one.  Users will notice 
> that the tasklist is always dumped now (we're defaulting oom_dump_tasks 
> to be enabled), so there is no reason why we can't remove oom_dump_tasks, 
> we're just giving them a new way to disable it.  oom_kill_allocating_task 
> no longer always means what it once did: with the mempolicy-constrained 
> oom rewrite, we now iterate the tasklist for such cases to kill a task.  
> So users need to reassess whether this should be set if all tasks on the 
> system are constrained by mempolicies, a typical configuration for 
> extremely large systems.  

No.
Your explanation doesn't answer why this change don't cause any comatibility
issue to _all_ user. Merely "opportunity" doesn't allow we ignore real world user.
I had made some incompatibility patch too, but all one have unavoidable reason. 



--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
the body to majordomo@kvack.org.  For more info on Linux MM,
see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ .
Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>

  reply	other threads:[~2010-02-16  5:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 140+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-02-10 16:32 [patch 0/7 -mm] oom killer rewrite David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 1/7 -mm] oom: filter tasks not sharing the same cpuset David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 17:08   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-10 17:08     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11 23:52   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-11 23:52     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-15  2:56   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  2:56     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15 22:06     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:06       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  4:52       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  4:52         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  6:01         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  6:01           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  7:03         ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  7:03           ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  8:49           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  8:49             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  9:04             ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  9:04               ` Nick Piggin
2010-02-16  9:10               ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  9:10                 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  8:46         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  8:46           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 2/7 -mm] oom: sacrifice child with highest badness score for parent David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 20:52   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-10 20:52     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-12  0:00   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:00     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:15     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:15       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-13  2:49   ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-13  2:49     ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-15  3:08   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  3:08     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 3/7 -mm] oom: select task from tasklist for mempolicy ooms David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 22:47   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-10 22:47     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-15  5:03   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  5:03     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15 22:11     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:11       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  5:15       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  5:15         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16 21:52         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16 21:52           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  0:48           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  0:48             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  1:13             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-17  1:13               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 4/7 -mm] oom: badness heuristic rewrite David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  4:10   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  4:10     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  9:14     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  9:14       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 15:07       ` Nick Bowler
2010-02-11 15:07         ` Nick Bowler
2010-02-11 21:01         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 21:01           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 21:43       ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 21:43         ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 21:51         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 21:51           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 22:31           ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 22:31             ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 22:42             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 22:42               ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 23:11               ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 23:11                 ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 23:31                 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 23:31                   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 23:37                   ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-11 23:37                     ` Andrew Morton
2010-02-12 13:56       ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-12 13:56         ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-12 21:00         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12 21:00           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-13  2:45           ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-13  2:45             ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-15 21:54             ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 21:54               ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16 13:14               ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-16 13:14                 ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-16 21:41                 ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16 21:41                   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  7:41                   ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-17  7:41                     ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-17  9:23                     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17  9:23                       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-17 13:08                       ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-17 13:08                         ` Minchan Kim
2010-02-15  8:05   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:05     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 5/7 -mm] oom: replace sysctls with quick mode David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:26   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:26     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  9:58     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  9:58       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  8:09   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:09     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15 22:15     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:15       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  5:25       ` KOSAKI Motohiro [this message]
2010-02-16  5:25         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-16  9:04         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-16  9:04           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 6/7 -mm] oom: avoid oom killer for lowmem allocations David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  4:13   ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  4:13     ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11  9:19     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11  9:19       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-11 14:08       ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-11 14:08         ` Rik van Riel
2010-02-12  1:28   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  1:28     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12 10:06     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12 10:06       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  0:09       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-15  0:09         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-15 22:01         ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15 22:01           ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  8:29   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:29     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-10 16:32 ` [patch 7/7 -mm] oom: remove unnecessary code and cleanup David Rientjes
2010-02-10 16:32   ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:12   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:12     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-02-12  0:21     ` David Rientjes
2010-02-12  0:21       ` David Rientjes
2010-02-15  8:31       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  8:31         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  2:51 ` [patch 0/7 -mm] oom killer rewrite KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-02-15  2:51   ` KOSAKI Motohiro

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20100216141539.72EF.A69D9226@jp.fujitsu.com \
    --to=kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com \
    --cc=aarcange@redhat.com \
    --cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=balbir@linux.vnet.ibm.com \
    --cc=kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com \
    --cc=l.lunak@suse.cz \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-mm@kvack.org \
    --cc=npiggin@suse.de \
    --cc=riel@redhat.com \
    --cc=rientjes@google.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.