RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans Verkuil]

Hi all,

Well, I certainly fired everyone up with my RFC. Based on the replies I got I
do think the time is right to start the removal process.

Phase 1 would be to convert the remaining V4L1 drivers.

To see what needs to be done I decided to analyse the remaining V4L1 drivers:

- usbvideo (really four drivers: vicam, ibmcam, konicawc, quickcam_messenger)

Hans de Goede added support for the quickcam_messenger to gspca, so that driver
is scheduled for removal. Devin has hardware to test the vicam driver. David
Ellingsworth has hardware to test the ibmcam driver. It would be great if
Devin and David can either send it to Hans de Goede or work on it themselves.

The konicawc is for an Intel YC76 webcam. I found one for sale here:

http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=6593985

Unfortunately the seller does not ship to the Netherlands or to Norway. Can
some kind US developer buy it and donate it to Hans de Goede? It's fairly
expensive at $39.99, but it's for a good cause.

So in theory all these drivers can be tested and converted.

- bw-qcam

A parallel port Connectix QuickCam webcam. To my knowledge no one has hardware
to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2, even
without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.

- c-qcam

A parallel port color Connectix QuickCam webcam. To my knowledge no one has
hardware to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2,
even without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.

- w9966

A parallel port LifeView FlyCam Supra webcam. To my knowledge no one has
hardware to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2,
even without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.

- cpia_pp

Parallel port webcam driver for the Creative Webcam II. I found one on eBay,
so with luck I can get hold of the hardware and get it to HdG.

- cpia_usb

USB variant of cpia_pp. Deprecated since it is now supported by gspca.

- stradis

Supports the Stradis SDM-275 4:2:2 MPEG-2 video decoder. I just found one on
eBay and bought it. This being an MPEG decoder I think that I will try to
convert this to V4L2. It does not look like that will be very difficult.

- arv

Driver for the the Renesas AR module on the M32700UT platform. Looking at
this driver it seems that it should be very easy to convert this to v4l2.
It's very basic and has no DMA or streaming support. We can try contacting
the author to see whether he can test a converted driver. Or perhaps try
and find the maintainer for this platform.

- ov511
- ovcamchip
- w9968cf
- stv680

Deprecated. Are now supported by gspca.

- se401

Hans de Goede has hardware. The current V4L1 driver does not work.

Kconfig mistakes:

I found four errors in drivers/media/video/Kconfig: the saa7191, meye, mxb
and cpia2 drivers are all marked as V4L1 only, while all support V4L2!
The cpia2 driver supports both v4l1 and v4l2. I can test this driver and
will look at removing the V4L1 support from that driver.

Conclusion:

These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
Volunteers?

Hardware is available for these drivers: se401, ibmcam, vicam. If Devin and
David can either donate the hardware to HdG or do the work themselves, then
these drivers can all be moved to gspca.

Hardware is ordered for the stradis driver. I'll do that one.

The V4L1 support should be removed from the cpia2 driver, leaving just the
V4L2 API. I can do that.

It is very likely that I can get hold of a cpia_pp device. I'll make sure
that HdG gets it.

That leaves the konicawc. We need a friendly US citizen who is willing to
buy one and donate it to HdG.

So if we all pitch in, then can get everything converted without having to
remove drivers.

Regards,

	Hans

-- 
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Gerard Klaver]

On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 09:58 +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
<lines deleted>
> 
> - ov511
> - ovcamchip
> - w9968cf
> - stv680
> 

> Conclusion:
> 
> These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
> However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
> Volunteers?
> 

> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 
> -- 
> Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Hello, 

I have a c-qcam with par. port, so i can do some test, see page below
for some information webcam:
 
http://gkall.hobby.nl/connectix-quickcam.html

-- 
--------
m.vr.gr.
Gerard Klaver

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Hans de Goede added support for the quickcam_messenger to gspca, so that driver
> is scheduled for removal. Devin has hardware to test the vicam driver. David
> Ellingsworth has hardware to test the ibmcam driver. It would be great if
> Devin and David can either send it to Hans de Goede or work on it themselves.

This all seems pretty reasonable.  I just have to decide whether I
would rather burn the time to learn the gspca framework, or just eat
the cost and donate the board to Hans de Goede.

I haven't used the product in eight or ten years, so it's not like I'm
going to miss it.

Wow, we're debating what to do about a product that hasn't been
available in retail since around 2002.

Devin

-- 
Devin J. Heitmueller - Kernel Labs
http://www.kernellabs.com

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans Verkuil]

On Saturday 20 March 2010 09:58:49 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> 
> Kconfig mistakes:
> 
> I found four errors in drivers/media/video/Kconfig: the saa7191, meye, mxb
> and cpia2 drivers are all marked as V4L1 only, while all support V4L2!
> The cpia2 driver supports both v4l1 and v4l2. I can test this driver and
> will look at removing the V4L1 support from that driver.

The pwc driver also depends on V4L1, but also contains V4L2 support.
Can someone test this driver? It is easy to remove the V4L1 code, but I'm
not sure how well the V4L2 code works.

Regards,

	Hans

-- 
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 03/20/2010 09:58 AM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I certainly fired everyone up with my RFC. Based on the replies I got I
> do think the time is right to start the removal process.
>
> Phase 1 would be to convert the remaining V4L1 drivers.
>
> To see what needs to be done I decided to analyse the remaining V4L1 drivers:
>
> - usbvideo (really four drivers: vicam, ibmcam, konicawc, quickcam_messenger)
>
> Hans de Goede added support for the quickcam_messenger to gspca, so that driver
> is scheduled for removal. Devin has hardware to test the vicam driver. David
> Ellingsworth has hardware to test the ibmcam driver. It would be great if
> Devin and David can either send it to Hans de Goede or work on it themselves.
>
> The konicawc is for an Intel YC76 webcam. I found one for sale here:
>
> http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=6593985
>
> Unfortunately the seller does not ship to the Netherlands or to Norway. Can
> some kind US developer buy it and donate it to Hans de Goede? It's fairly
> expensive at $39.99, but it's for a good cause.
>
> So in theory all these drivers can be tested and converted.
>
> - bw-qcam
>
> A parallel port Connectix QuickCam webcam. To my knowledge no one has hardware
> to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2, even
> without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.
>

It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.

> - c-qcam
>
> A parallel port color Connectix QuickCam webcam. To my knowledge no one has
> hardware to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2,
> even without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.
>

It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.


> - w9966
>
> A parallel port LifeView FlyCam Supra webcam. To my knowledge no one has
> hardware to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2,
> even without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.
>

It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.

> - cpia_pp
>
> Parallel port webcam driver for the Creative Webcam II. I found one on eBay,
> so with luck I can get hold of the hardware and get it to HdG.
>

Although I appreaciate your effort in getting this cam into my hands, I don't
know what to with it once I have it, my stance on it can be summarized as:
It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.

> - cpia_usb
>
> USB variant of cpia_pp. Deprecated since it is now supported by gspca.
>

Ack, note that there is no sane way to make the gspca code also support the
parallel port version, so if we would like to do that we would have
to keep the pp part of the old cpia1 v4l1 driver which could do both pp and
usb around, and convert that v4l2.

<snip>

> So if we all pitch in, then can get everything converted without having to
> remove drivers.

I'm not sure if the parallel port attached are worth keeping support for. But
if someone else is willing to convert those, sure.

Regards,

Hans

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 03/20/2010 10:53 PM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Saturday 20 March 2010 09:58:49 Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>
>> Kconfig mistakes:
>>
>> I found four errors in drivers/media/video/Kconfig: the saa7191, meye, mxb
>> and cpia2 drivers are all marked as V4L1 only, while all support V4L2!
>> The cpia2 driver supports both v4l1 and v4l2. I can test this driver and
>> will look at removing the V4L1 support from that driver.
>
> The pwc driver also depends on V4L1, but also contains V4L2 support.
> Can someone test this driver? It is easy to remove the V4L1 code, but I'm
> not sure how well the V4L2 code works.
>

I've a pwc using device. Actually I've 3 identical ones (all
logitech quickcam pro 4000's).

The pwc driver could indeed use some love from someone, but I've not
yet found / made the time to look at it.

It is working with the cams I have, but gets some corner cases
(like unplug while streaming) wrong.

Regards,

Hans

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans Verkuil]

On Sunday 21 March 2010 00:09:16 Hans de Goede wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 03/20/2010 09:58 AM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Well, I certainly fired everyone up with my RFC. Based on the replies I got I
> > do think the time is right to start the removal process.
> >
> > Phase 1 would be to convert the remaining V4L1 drivers.
> >
> > To see what needs to be done I decided to analyse the remaining V4L1 drivers:
> >
> > - usbvideo (really four drivers: vicam, ibmcam, konicawc, quickcam_messenger)
> >
> > Hans de Goede added support for the quickcam_messenger to gspca, so that driver
> > is scheduled for removal. Devin has hardware to test the vicam driver. David
> > Ellingsworth has hardware to test the ibmcam driver. It would be great if
> > Devin and David can either send it to Hans de Goede or work on it themselves.
> >
> > The konicawc is for an Intel YC76 webcam. I found one for sale here:
> >
> > http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=6593985
> >
> > Unfortunately the seller does not ship to the Netherlands or to Norway. Can
> > some kind US developer buy it and donate it to Hans de Goede? It's fairly
> > expensive at $39.99, but it's for a good cause.
> >
> > So in theory all these drivers can be tested and converted.
> >
> > - bw-qcam
> >
> > A parallel port Connectix QuickCam webcam. To my knowledge no one has hardware
> > to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2, even
> > without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.
> >
> 
> It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.
> 
> > - c-qcam
> >
> > A parallel port color Connectix QuickCam webcam. To my knowledge no one has
> > hardware to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2,
> > even without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.
> >
> 
> It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.
> 
> 
> > - w9966
> >
> > A parallel port LifeView FlyCam Supra webcam. To my knowledge no one has
> > hardware to test this. However, it should not be hard to convert this to V4L2,
> > even without having hardware since this driver doesn't do any streaming or DMA.
> >
> 
> It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.

But these three are trivial to convert and the c-qcam can actually be tested.
Because of that I see no reason to drop the support for this.

> 
> > - cpia_pp
> >
> > Parallel port webcam driver for the Creative Webcam II. I found one on eBay,
> > so with luck I can get hold of the hardware and get it to HdG.
> >
> 
> Although I appreaciate your effort in getting this cam into my hands, I don't
> know what to with it once I have it, my stance on it can be summarized as:
> It is parallel port only so lets just drop it.
> 
> > - cpia_usb
> >
> > USB variant of cpia_pp. Deprecated since it is now supported by gspca.
> >
> 
> Ack, note that there is no sane way to make the gspca code also support the
> parallel port version, so if we would like to do that we would have
> to keep the pp part of the old cpia1 v4l1 driver which could do both pp and
> usb around, and convert that v4l2.

This looks like it might be a lot more work, so at some point we will have
to decide to either convert or drop it.

> 
> <snip>
> 
> > So if we all pitch in, then can get everything converted without having to
> > remove drivers.
> 
> I'm not sure if the parallel port attached are worth keeping support for. But
> if someone else is willing to convert those, sure.

Regards,

	Hans


-- 
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Nicolas Will]

On Sun, 2010-03-21 at 09:19 +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > > - cpia_pp
> > >
> > > Parallel port webcam driver for the Creative Webcam II. I found
> one on eBay,
> > > so with luck I can get hold of the hardware and get it to HdG.
> > >
> > 
> > Although I appreaciate your effort in getting this cam into my
> hands, I don't
> > know what to with it once I have it, my stance on it can be
> summarized as:
> > It is parallel port only so lets just drop it. 

I have one of those in my toys.

I can donate it to anyone in Europe.

I guess that my willingness to get rid of it is a testimony to how
important it is to me...

Nico

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans Verkuil]

On Saturday 20 March 2010 19:38:39 Gerard Klaver wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 09:58 +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> <lines deleted>
> > 
> > - ov511
> > - ovcamchip
> > - w9968cf
> > - stv680
> > 
> 
> > Conclusion:
> > 
> > These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
> > However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
> > Volunteers?
> > 
> 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 	Hans
> > 
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> I have a c-qcam with par. port, so i can do some test, see page below
> for some information webcam:
>  
> http://gkall.hobby.nl/connectix-quickcam.html

Well, no good deed goes unpunished, so I'd appreciate it if you could do some
testing :-)

I did a quick conversion of c-qcam to V4L2. You can find the tree here:

http://www.linuxtv.org/hg/~hverkuil/v4l-dvb-v4l1

It is 'bug compatible' with the V4L1 driver. I.e. I only converted the API,
I didn't check anything else. And I saw some very dubious contructs in the
init and exit paths, so I am almost positive that it needs a bit more work.

Please let me know how it goes and post the kernel messages that the driver
prints when loaded, used and when unloaded.

Regards,

	Hans

-- 
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans Verkuil]

On Saturday 20 March 2010 09:58:49 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
> However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
> Volunteers?

I've converted these four drivers to V4L2.

See my tree:

http://www.linuxtv.org/hg/~hverkuil/v4l-dvb-v4l1

It's obviously untested and it needs a closer review, but the bulk of the work
is done.

Regards,

	Hans

-- 
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans Verkuil]

On Sunday 21 March 2010 23:45:04 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Saturday 20 March 2010 09:58:49 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
> > However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
> > Volunteers?
> 
> I've converted these four drivers to V4L2.

I've also removed the V4L1 support from cpia2 and pwc and removed some last
V4L1 code remnants from meye and zoran. It's all in the same tree.

Hans, could you test the pwc driver for me?

	Hans

> 
> See my tree:
> 
> http://www.linuxtv.org/hg/~hverkuil/v4l-dvb-v4l1
> 
> It's obviously untested and it needs a closer review, but the bulk of the work
> is done.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 
> 

-- 
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 03/22/2010 01:17 AM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Sunday 21 March 2010 23:45:04 Hans Verkuil wrote:
>> On Saturday 20 March 2010 09:58:49 Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>> These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
>>> However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
>>> Volunteers?
>>
>> I've converted these four drivers to V4L2.
>
> I've also removed the V4L1 support from cpia2 and pwc and removed some last
> V4L1 code remnants from meye and zoran. It's all in the same tree.
>
> Hans, could you test the pwc driver for me?
>

Done,

And the news is not good I'm afraid, it does not work. I've one interesting
observation though. It does work if I first run it once with the "old"
version of the driver and then load your version (also replacing videodev.ko,
etc with the ones from your tree). But if I plug it in with your driver in
place it does not stream (nothing interesting in dmesg). So it seems like
an initialization problem.

As said the pwc driver needs some love in general, I've seen the same problem
(not streaming) with the "old" version when used with machines with UHCI usb
controllers (rather then OHCI), such as atom based laptops.

So maybe this is some timing issues, and your changes have speed up some path?

Note that I've 3 identical pwc cams, I would be more then happy to give you
one, let me know how to best get it to you.

Regards,

Hans

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans Verkuil]

On Monday 22 March 2010 10:29:09 Hans de Goede wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 03/22/2010 01:17 AM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > On Sunday 21 March 2010 23:45:04 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >> On Saturday 20 March 2010 09:58:49 Hans Verkuil wrote:
> >>> These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
> >>> However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
> >>> Volunteers?
> >>
> >> I've converted these four drivers to V4L2.
> >
> > I've also removed the V4L1 support from cpia2 and pwc and removed some last
> > V4L1 code remnants from meye and zoran. It's all in the same tree.
> >
> > Hans, could you test the pwc driver for me?
> >
> 
> Done,
> 
> And the news is not good I'm afraid, it does not work. I've one interesting
> observation though. It does work if I first run it once with the "old"
> version of the driver and then load your version (also replacing videodev.ko,
> etc with the ones from your tree). But if I plug it in with your driver in
> place it does not stream (nothing interesting in dmesg). So it seems like
> an initialization problem.

When you run it with the old version, are you using the V4L1 API or the V4L2
API? And what program do you use for testing?

As far as I can see there should be no difference in the code between the old
and the new version if you use the V4L2 API in both cases. It's a fairly
straightforward patch.

> As said the pwc driver needs some love in general, I've seen the same problem
> (not streaming) with the "old" version when used with machines with UHCI usb
> controllers (rather then OHCI), such as atom based laptops.
> 
> So maybe this is some timing issues, and your changes have speed up some path?
> 
> Note that I've 3 identical pwc cams, I would be more then happy to give you
> one, let me know how to best get it to you.

I will have to double check tomorrow whether I have a pwc camera or not. I'll
get back to you on this.

Regards,

	Hans

-- 
Hans Verkuil - video4linux developer - sponsored by TANDBERG

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Theodore Kilgore]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010, Hans de Goede wrote:

<snip>


> 
> [...] I've seen the same 
> problem (not streaming) with the "old" version when used with machines 
> with UHCI usb controllers (rather then OHCI), such as atom based 
> laptops.
> 
> So maybe this is some timing issues, and your changes have speed up some 
> path?

Sorry to break into a very interesting discussion which I was otherwise 
just watching. But how many other cases of this kind of UHCI versus OHCI 
kind of thing has anyone else witnessed?

Recall, we faced exactly the same situation in developing the current 
version of the mr97310a driver? That I was doing everything on an OHCI 
machine and then, at the very last step I tested on a UHCI machine and 
suddenly some of the cameras would not work? And there was one magic 
command to the camera which "fixed" the problem and we still don't know 
why that one magic command fixed the problem, only that the fix is very 
critical, very necessary, and it does work?

Please, anyone who can report similar mysterious events, let me know. I 
would still like to get to the bottom of what is going on, if I can.

Sorry for the interruption. Anyone who is interested in pursuing this, 
start a new thread if you want.

Theodore Kilgore

Re: RFC: Phase 1: Proposal to convert V4L1 drivers

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 03/22/2010 11:55 AM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> On Monday 22 March 2010 10:29:09 Hans de Goede wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 03/22/2010 01:17 AM, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>> On Sunday 21 March 2010 23:45:04 Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>>> On Saturday 20 March 2010 09:58:49 Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>>>> These drivers have no hardware to test with: bw-qcam, c-qcam, arv, w9966.
>>>>> However, all four should be easy to convert to v4l2, even without hardware.
>>>>> Volunteers?
>>>>
>>>> I've converted these four drivers to V4L2.
>>>
>>> I've also removed the V4L1 support from cpia2 and pwc and removed some last
>>> V4L1 code remnants from meye and zoran. It's all in the same tree.
>>>
>>> Hans, could you test the pwc driver for me?
>>>
>>
>> Done,
>>
>> And the news is not good I'm afraid, it does not work. I've one interesting
>> observation though. It does work if I first run it once with the "old"
>> version of the driver and then load your version (also replacing videodev.ko,
>> etc with the ones from your tree). But if I plug it in with your driver in
>> place it does not stream (nothing interesting in dmesg). So it seems like
>> an initialization problem.
>
> When you run it with the old version, are you using the V4L1 API or the V4L2
> API? And what program do you use for testing?
>

I was using cheese, which uses the V4l2 api (through gstreamer).

Regards,

Hans