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From: Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>
To: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Lameter <cl@linux-foundation.org>,
	Adam Litke <agl@us.ibm.com>, Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/11] Export fragmentation index via /proc/extfrag_index
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:11:42 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100325141142.GS2024@csn.ul.ie> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100325200919.6C8F.A69D9226@jp.fujitsu.com>

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 08:20:04PM +0900, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:47:17AM +0900, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 09:22:04AM +0900, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> > > > > > > > +	/*
> > > > > > > > +	 * Index is between 0 and 1 so return within 3 decimal places
> > > > > > > > +	 *
> > > > > > > > +	 * 0 => allocation would fail due to lack of memory
> > > > > > > > +	 * 1 => allocation would fail due to fragmentation
> > > > > > > > +	 */
> > > > > > > > +	return 1000 - ( (1000+(info->free_pages * 1000 / requested)) / info->free_blocks_total);
> > > > > > > > +}
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Dumb question.
> > > > > > > your paper (http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1375634.1375641) says
> > > > > > > fragmentation_index = 1 - (TotalFree/SizeRequested)/BlocksFree
> > > > > > > but your code have extra '1000+'. Why?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To get an approximation to three decimal places.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Do you mean this is poor man's round up logic?
> > > > 
> > > > Not exactly.
> > > > 
> > > > The intention is to have a value of 968 instead of 0.968231. i.e.
> > > > instead of a value between 0 and 1, it'll be a value between 0 and 1000
> > > > that matches the first three digits after the decimal place.
> > > 
> > > Let's consider extream case.
> > > 
> > > free_pages: 1
> > > requested: 1
> > > free_blocks_total: 1
> > > 
> > > frag_index = 1000  - ((1000 + 1*1000/1))/1 = -1000
> > > 
> > > This is not your intension, I guess. 
> > 
> > Why not?
> > 
> > See this comment
> > 
> > /* Fragmentation index only makes sense when a request would fail */
> > 
> > In your example, there is a free page of the requested size so the allocation
> > would succeed. In this case, fragmentation index does indeed go negative
> > but the value is not useful.
> >
> > > Probably we don't need any round_up/round_down logic. because fragmentation_index
> > > is only used "if (fragindex >= 0 && fragindex <= 500)" check in try_to_compact_pages().
> > > +1 or -1 inaccurate can be ignored. iow, I think we can remove '1000+' expression.
> > > 
> > 
> > This isn't about rounding, it's about having a value that normally is
> > between 0 and 1 expressed as a number between 0 and 1000 because we
> > can't use double in the kernel.
> 
> Sorry, My example was wrong. new example is here.
> 
> free_pages: 4
> requested: 2
> free_blocks_total: 4
> 
> theory: 1 - (TotalFree/SizeRequested)/BlocksFree
>             = 1 - (4/2)/4 = 0.5
> 
> code : 1000 - ((1000 + 4*1000/2))/4 = 1000 - (1000 + 2000)/4 = 1000/4 = 250
> 
> I don't think this is three decimal picking up code. This seems might makes
> lots compaction invocation rather than theory.
> 

Ok, I cannot apologise for this enough.

Since that paper was published, further work showed that the equation could
be much improved. As part of that, I updated the equation to the following;

double index = 1    - ( (1    + ((double)info->free_pages        / requested)) / info->free_blocks_total);

or when approximated to three decimal places

int index =    1000 - ( (1000 + (        info->free_pages * 1000 / requested)) / info->free_blocks_total);

Your analysis of the paper is perfect. When slotted into a driver program
with your example figures, I get the following results

old equation = 0.500000
current equation = 0.250000
integer approximation = 250

The code as-is is correct and is what I intended. My explanation on the
other hand sucks and I should have remembered that I updated equation since
I published that paper 2 years ago.

Again, I am extremely sorry for misleading you.

-- 
Mel Gorman
Part-time Phd Student                          Linux Technology Center
University of Limerick                         IBM Dublin Software Lab

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>
To: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Lameter <cl@linux-foundation.org>,
	Adam Litke <agl@us.ibm.com>, Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/11] Export fragmentation index via /proc/extfrag_index
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:11:42 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100325141142.GS2024@csn.ul.ie> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100325200919.6C8F.A69D9226@jp.fujitsu.com>

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 08:20:04PM +0900, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:47:17AM +0900, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 09:22:04AM +0900, KOSAKI Motohiro wrote:
> > > > > > > > +	/*
> > > > > > > > +	 * Index is between 0 and 1 so return within 3 decimal places
> > > > > > > > +	 *
> > > > > > > > +	 * 0 => allocation would fail due to lack of memory
> > > > > > > > +	 * 1 => allocation would fail due to fragmentation
> > > > > > > > +	 */
> > > > > > > > +	return 1000 - ( (1000+(info->free_pages * 1000 / requested)) / info->free_blocks_total);
> > > > > > > > +}
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Dumb question.
> > > > > > > your paper (http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1375634.1375641) says
> > > > > > > fragmentation_index = 1 - (TotalFree/SizeRequested)/BlocksFree
> > > > > > > but your code have extra '1000+'. Why?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To get an approximation to three decimal places.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Do you mean this is poor man's round up logic?
> > > > 
> > > > Not exactly.
> > > > 
> > > > The intention is to have a value of 968 instead of 0.968231. i.e.
> > > > instead of a value between 0 and 1, it'll be a value between 0 and 1000
> > > > that matches the first three digits after the decimal place.
> > > 
> > > Let's consider extream case.
> > > 
> > > free_pages: 1
> > > requested: 1
> > > free_blocks_total: 1
> > > 
> > > frag_index = 1000  - ((1000 + 1*1000/1))/1 = -1000
> > > 
> > > This is not your intension, I guess. 
> > 
> > Why not?
> > 
> > See this comment
> > 
> > /* Fragmentation index only makes sense when a request would fail */
> > 
> > In your example, there is a free page of the requested size so the allocation
> > would succeed. In this case, fragmentation index does indeed go negative
> > but the value is not useful.
> >
> > > Probably we don't need any round_up/round_down logic. because fragmentation_index
> > > is only used "if (fragindex >= 0 && fragindex <= 500)" check in try_to_compact_pages().
> > > +1 or -1 inaccurate can be ignored. iow, I think we can remove '1000+' expression.
> > > 
> > 
> > This isn't about rounding, it's about having a value that normally is
> > between 0 and 1 expressed as a number between 0 and 1000 because we
> > can't use double in the kernel.
> 
> Sorry, My example was wrong. new example is here.
> 
> free_pages: 4
> requested: 2
> free_blocks_total: 4
> 
> theory: 1 - (TotalFree/SizeRequested)/BlocksFree
>             = 1 - (4/2)/4 = 0.5
> 
> code : 1000 - ((1000 + 4*1000/2))/4 = 1000 - (1000 + 2000)/4 = 1000/4 = 250
> 
> I don't think this is three decimal picking up code. This seems might makes
> lots compaction invocation rather than theory.
> 

Ok, I cannot apologise for this enough.

Since that paper was published, further work showed that the equation could
be much improved. As part of that, I updated the equation to the following;

double index = 1    - ( (1    + ((double)info->free_pages        / requested)) / info->free_blocks_total);

or when approximated to three decimal places

int index =    1000 - ( (1000 + (        info->free_pages * 1000 / requested)) / info->free_blocks_total);

Your analysis of the paper is perfect. When slotted into a driver program
with your example figures, I get the following results

old equation = 0.500000
current equation = 0.250000
integer approximation = 250

The code as-is is correct and is what I intended. My explanation on the
other hand sucks and I should have remembered that I updated equation since
I published that paper 2 years ago.

Again, I am extremely sorry for misleading you.

-- 
Mel Gorman
Part-time Phd Student                          Linux Technology Center
University of Limerick                         IBM Dublin Software Lab

--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
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  reply	other threads:[~2010-03-25 14:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 216+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-03-12 16:41 [PATCH 0/11] Memory Compaction v4 Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41 ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 01/11] mm,migration: Take a reference to the anon_vma before migrating Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-14 15:01   ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-14 15:01     ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15  5:06   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  5:06     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  1:44   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  1:44     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17 11:45     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 11:45       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 16:38       ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-17 16:38         ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-18 11:12         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18 11:12           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18 16:31           ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-18 16:31             ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 02/11] mm,migration: Do not try to migrate unmapped anonymous pages Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15  0:28   ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15  0:28     ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15  5:34     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  5:34       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  6:28       ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15  6:28         ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15  6:44         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  6:44           ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  7:09           ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  7:09             ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15 13:48             ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 13:48               ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15  7:11           ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15  7:11             ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 11:28       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15 11:28         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15 12:48         ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 12:48           ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 14:21           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15 14:21             ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15 14:33             ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 14:33               ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 23:49             ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15 23:49               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  2:12               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  2:12                 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  3:00                 ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-17  3:00                   ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-17  3:15                   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  3:15                     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  4:15                     ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-17  4:15                       ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-17  4:19                       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  4:19                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17 16:41                     ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-17 16:41                       ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-18  0:30                       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-18  0:30                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17 12:07                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 12:07                   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17  2:03             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  2:03               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17 11:51               ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 11:51                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18  0:48                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-18  0:48                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-18 11:14                   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18 11:14                     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-19  6:21                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19  6:21                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19  8:59                       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-19  8:59                         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  2:49                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  2:49                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  8:32                           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  8:32                             ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  8:56                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  8:56                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  9:18                               ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  9:18                                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  9:02                             ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25  9:02                               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25  9:09                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  9:09                                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  9:08                                 ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25  9:08                                   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25  9:21                                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  9:21                                   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  9:41                                   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25  9:41                                     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25  9:59                                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  9:59                                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25 10:12                                       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25 10:12                                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-25 13:39                                         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25 13:39                                           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-26  3:07                                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-26  3:07                                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-26 13:49                                             ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-26 13:49                                               ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25 15:29                                         ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-25 15:29                                           ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-26  0:58                                           ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-26  0:58                                             ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-26  1:39                                             ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-26  1:39                                               ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-25 14:35                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-25 14:35                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-25 16:16                               ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-25 16:16                                 ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 03/11] mm: Share the anon_vma ref counts between KSM and page migration Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 17:14   ` Rik van Riel
2010-03-12 17:14     ` Rik van Riel
2010-03-15  5:35   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  5:35     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-17  2:06   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  2:06     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 04/11] Allow CONFIG_MIGRATION to be set without CONFIG_NUMA or memory hot-remove Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17  2:28   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  2:28     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17 11:32     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 11:32       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 16:37       ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-17 16:37         ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-17 23:56         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17 23:56           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-18 11:24           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18 11:24             ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-19  6:21             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19  6:21               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19 10:16               ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-19 10:16                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  3:28                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  3:28                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 05/11] Export unusable free space index via /proc/unusable_index Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15  5:41   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  5:41     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2010-03-15  9:48     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15  9:48       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17  2:42   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  2:42     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 06/11] Export fragmentation index via /proc/extfrag_index Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17  2:49   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  2:49     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17 11:33     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 11:33       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-23  0:22       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-23  0:22         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-23 12:03         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-23 12:03           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  2:47           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  2:47             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25  8:47             ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25  8:47               ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25 11:20               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25 11:20                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25 14:11                 ` Mel Gorman [this message]
2010-03-25 14:11                   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-26  3:10                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-26  3:10                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 07/11] Memory compaction core Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15 13:44   ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 13:44     ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-15 14:41     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-15 14:41       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 10:31   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17 10:31     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17 11:40     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17 11:40       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18  2:35       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-18  2:35         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-18 11:43         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18 11:43           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-19  6:21           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19  6:21             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-18 17:08     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-18 17:08       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 08/11] Add /proc trigger for memory compaction Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17  3:18   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  3:18     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 09/11] Add /sys trigger for per-node " Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-17  3:18   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-17  3:18     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 10/11] Direct compact when a high-order allocation fails Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-16  2:47   ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-16  2:47     ` Minchan Kim
2010-03-19  6:21   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19  6:21     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19  6:31     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19  6:31       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19 10:10       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-19 10:10         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25 11:22         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25 11:22           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-19 10:09     ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-19 10:09       ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25 11:08       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25 11:08         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-25 15:11         ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-25 15:11           ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-26  6:01           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-26  6:01             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2010-03-12 16:41 ` [PATCH 11/11] Do not compact within a preferred zone after a compaction failure Mel Gorman
2010-03-12 16:41   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-23 12:25 [PATCH 0/11] Memory Compaction v5 Mel Gorman
2010-03-23 12:25 ` [PATCH 06/11] Export fragmentation index via /proc/extfrag_index Mel Gorman
2010-03-23 12:25   ` Mel Gorman
2010-03-23 17:37   ` Christoph Lameter
2010-03-23 17:37     ` Christoph Lameter

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