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From: Oliver Neukum <oneukum@suse.de>
To: Clemens Ladisch <clemens@ladisch.de>
Cc: Daniel Mack <daniel@caiaq.de>, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>,
	alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de>,
	Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com>,
	USB list <linux-usb@vger.kernel.org>,
	Kernel development list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Chris Wright <chrisw@sous-sol.org>,
	iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	Pedro Ribeiro <pedrib@gmail.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [alsa-devel] USB transfer_buffer allocations on 64bit systems
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 13:42:34 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <201005071342.34923.oneukum@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4BE3E1B9.5020602@ladisch.de>

Am Freitag, 7. Mai 2010 11:47:37 schrieb Clemens Ladisch:
> > In the particular case of audio drivers, though, the contents of the
> > buffers are likely to change after the submission. What we do here
> > is that we map the audio stream buffers which are used by ALSA to
> > the output URBs, so they're filled asychronously. Once the buffer is
> > actually sent out on the bus, it is believed to contain proper audio
> > date. If it doesn't, that's due to too tight audio timing or other
> > problems. This breaks once buffers are magically bounced in the
> > background.
> 
> At least the audio class and ua101 drivers don't do this and fill the
> buffers before they are submitted.
> 
> > So - long story short: these audio buffers need to be DMA coherent.
> 
> Does the USB API actually guarantee that all controllers use DMA, i.e.,
> that the buffers can be filled after submission?

No, you must not touch buffers after submission. This does not even
work if we use DMA, because on some architectures this violates
guarantees to the dma primitives. It cannot be done.

	Regards
		Oliver

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Oliver Neukum <oneukum-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
To: Clemens Ladisch <clemens-P6GI/4k7KOmELgA04lAiVw@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Daniel Mack <daniel-rDUAYElUppE@public.gmane.org>,
	Takashi Iwai <tiwai-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>,
	alsa-devel-K7yf7f+aM1XWsZ/bQMPhNw@public.gmane.org,
	Greg KH <gregkh-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>,
	Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
	<konrad.wilk-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	USB list <linux-usb-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Kernel development list
	<linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Chris Wright <chrisw-69jw2NvuJkxg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>,
	iommu-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org,
	Andi Kleen <andi-Vw/NltI1exuRpAAqCnN02g@public.gmane.org>,
	Alan Stern
	<stern-nwvwT67g6+6dFdvTe/nMLpVzexx5G7lz@public.gmane.org>,
	Pedro Ribeiro <pedrib-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Andrew Morton
	<akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>,
	David Woodhouse <dwmw2-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [alsa-devel] USB transfer_buffer allocations on 64bit systems
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 13:42:34 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <201005071342.34923.oneukum@suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4BE3E1B9.5020602-P6GI/4k7KOmELgA04lAiVw@public.gmane.org>

Am Freitag, 7. Mai 2010 11:47:37 schrieb Clemens Ladisch:
> > In the particular case of audio drivers, though, the contents of the
> > buffers are likely to change after the submission. What we do here
> > is that we map the audio stream buffers which are used by ALSA to
> > the output URBs, so they're filled asychronously. Once the buffer is
> > actually sent out on the bus, it is believed to contain proper audio
> > date. If it doesn't, that's due to too tight audio timing or other
> > problems. This breaks once buffers are magically bounced in the
> > background.
> 
> At least the audio class and ua101 drivers don't do this and fill the
> buffers before they are submitted.
> 
> > So - long story short: these audio buffers need to be DMA coherent.
> 
> Does the USB API actually guarantee that all controllers use DMA, i.e.,
> that the buffers can be filled after submission?

No, you must not touch buffers after submission. This does not even
work if we use DMA, because on some architectures this violates
guarantees to the dma primitives. It cannot be done.

	Regards
		Oliver
--
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-05-07 11:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 221+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-04-07  9:06 USB transfer_buffer allocations on 64bit systems Daniel Mack
2010-04-07  9:06 ` Daniel Mack
     [not found] ` <p2g581ef6d61004070220z1153d40ez955b356e01220848@mail.gmail.com>
2010-04-07  9:26   ` USB HID gadget driver (was: Re: USB transfer_buffer allocations on 64bit systems) Daniel Mack
2010-04-07  9:26     ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 14:59 ` USB transfer_buffer allocations on 64bit systems Alan Stern
2010-04-07 14:59   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 15:11   ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 15:11     ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 15:31     ` Greg KH
2010-04-07 15:31       ` Greg KH
2010-04-07 15:35       ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 15:35         ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 15:51         ` Greg KH
2010-04-07 15:51           ` Greg KH
2010-04-07 16:04           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 16:04             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08  6:09         ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-08 11:07           ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-08 11:07             ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 15:55       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 15:55         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 16:16         ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 16:16           ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 16:47           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 16:47             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 17:55           ` Takashi Iwai
2010-04-07 17:55             ` Takashi Iwai
2010-04-07 17:59             ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 17:59               ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 18:06               ` Takashi Iwai
2010-04-07 18:06                 ` Takashi Iwai
2010-04-07 19:13             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 19:13               ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 23:59               ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-07 23:59                 ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-08  0:33               ` Greg KH
2010-04-08  0:33                 ` Greg KH
2010-04-09  0:01                 ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-09 16:50                   ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-09 16:50                     ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-09 23:38                     ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-09 23:38                       ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-10  8:34                       ` [alsa-devel] " Daniel Mack
2010-04-10  8:34                         ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-10 17:02                         ` [alsa-devel] " Robert Hancock
2010-04-12 18:56                           ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-12 20:39                             ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-12 20:39                               ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-12 20:58                               ` Sarah Sharp
2010-04-12 11:17               ` [PATCH] USB: rename usb_buffer_alloc() and usb_buffer_free() Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 11:17                 ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-13 18:16                 ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-13 18:16                   ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-13 19:27                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-13 19:27                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-13 20:26                     ` Greg KH
2010-04-13 21:47                       ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-13 21:47                         ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 17:52         ` USB transfer_buffer allocations on 64bit systems Takashi Iwai
2010-04-07 17:52           ` Takashi Iwai
2010-04-07 15:46     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 15:46       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08  6:12       ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-08 16:59         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08 16:59           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08 21:24           ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-08 22:20             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08 22:20               ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09  6:04               ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-09 14:41                 ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 14:41                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 14:50                   ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-09 14:50                     ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-09 15:15                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 15:15                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 20:51                       ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-09 20:51                         ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-09 21:21                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 21:21                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-07 16:54   ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-07 16:54     ` Oliver Neukum
2010-04-07 17:00     ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 17:00       ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-07 23:55   ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-07 23:55     ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-08  2:10     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08  2:10       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08  7:30       ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-08  7:30         ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-08 16:57         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08 16:57           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08 17:17           ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-08 18:17             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-08 23:13           ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-08 23:13             ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-09 16:01             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 16:01               ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 18:09               ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-09 18:19                 ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-09 18:19                   ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-09 19:34                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 19:34                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 20:14                     ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-09 20:14                       ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-09 20:25                     ` [LKML] " Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-04-09 20:25                       ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-04-09 21:23                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 21:23                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-09 22:11                         ` Robert Hancock
2010-04-12 10:48                           ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 10:48                             ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 12:06                             ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-10 12:49                   ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-10 12:49                     ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-10 13:21                     ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-10 13:21                       ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-12  8:59   ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12  8:59     ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 11:14     ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 11:14       ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 11:53       ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 11:53         ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 12:11         ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-12 12:12           ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 12:12             ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 12:32             ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 12:47               ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 12:54                 ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 12:54                   ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 15:43                   ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 16:17                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-12 16:17                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-12 16:29                       ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 16:57                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-12 16:57                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-12 17:15                           ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 17:15                             ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 17:22                             ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 17:22                               ` Andi Kleen
2010-04-12 17:56                               ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 17:56                                 ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-12 17:52                             ` [LKML] " Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-04-12 17:52                               ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-04-13 18:22                           ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-13 18:22                             ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-13 23:46                             ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-13 23:46                               ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 10:09                               ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-14 10:09                                 ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-14 10:47                                 ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 11:02                                   ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 13:18                                   ` [LKML] " Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-04-14 14:08                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-04-14 14:08                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-14 16:36                                     ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-14 16:36                                       ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-14 17:21                                       ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 17:21                                         ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 18:23                                         ` Alan Stern
2010-04-14 18:27                                           ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 18:53                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-04-15  7:35                                         ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-15  7:35                                           ` Daniel Mack
2010-04-14 18:15                                       ` Alan Stern
2010-04-14 18:36                                         ` David Woodhouse
2010-04-14 21:12                                           ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 22:25                                             ` Chris Wright
2010-04-14 22:56                                               ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-14 23:37                                                 ` Chris Wright
2010-04-15  1:20                                                   ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-15 15:20                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-20  0:16                                                       ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-05-07  7:48                                                         ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-07  7:48                                                           ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-07  9:47                                                           ` [alsa-devel] " Clemens Ladisch
2010-05-07  9:47                                                             ` Clemens Ladisch
2010-05-07 10:24                                                             ` [alsa-devel] " Daniel Mack
2010-05-07 10:24                                                               ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-07 14:51                                                               ` [alsa-devel] " Alan Stern
2010-05-07 14:51                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-10  2:50                                                                 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2010-05-10  9:21                                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2010-05-10  9:21                                                                     ` David Woodhouse
2010-05-10 14:58                                                                     ` [alsa-devel] " Alan Stern
2010-05-10 14:58                                                                       ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11  1:06                                                                       ` FUJITA Tomonori
2010-05-11  1:06                                                                         ` FUJITA Tomonori
2010-05-11 14:00                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11 14:00                                                                           ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11 14:22                                                                           ` FUJITA Tomonori
2010-05-11 14:24                                                                           ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-05-11 14:38                                                                             ` FUJITA Tomonori
2010-05-11 15:04                                                                               ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11 15:04                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11 15:34                                                                                 ` FUJITA Tomonori
2010-05-11 16:06                                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11 16:09                                                                                     ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-11 16:48                                                                                     ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-05-11 17:10                                                                                       ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-11 17:32                                                                                         ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-05-11 17:38                                                                                           ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-12 23:50                                                                                             ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-05-13  9:36                                                                                               ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-14  0:17                                                                                                 ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-05-11 14:57                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2010-05-11 15:05                                                                               ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-10 14:31                                                               ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-05-10 14:31                                                                 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-05-07 11:42                                                             ` Oliver Neukum [this message]
2010-05-07 11:42                                                               ` Oliver Neukum
2010-05-07 11:47                                                               ` Oliver Neukum
2010-05-07 11:47                                                                 ` Oliver Neukum
2010-05-07 11:58                                                                 ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-07 11:58                                                                   ` Daniel Mack
2010-05-07 14:45                                                                   ` [alsa-devel] " Alan Stern
2010-05-07 14:45                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2010-04-14 18:38                                         ` Chris Wright
2010-04-14 20:29                                           ` Alan Stern
2010-04-14 21:01                                             ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2010-04-14 21:12                                               ` Pedro Ribeiro
2010-04-15  1:50                                                 ` Alan Stern

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