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From: Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Daniel Walker <dwalker@codeaurora.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>,
	Chunsang Jeong <chunsang.jeong@linaro.org>,
	Jesse Barker <jesse.barker@linaro.org>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Michal Nazarewicz <mina86@mina86.com>,
	linaro-mm-sig@lists.linaro.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Kyungmin Park <kyungmin.park@samsung.com>,
	Ankita Garg <ankita@in.ibm.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@samsung.com>,
	ksummit-2011-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 6/8] drivers: add Contiguous Memory Allocator
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:00:14 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20110926130014.GG22455@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1312393430.2855.51.camel@mulgrave>

On Wed, Aug 03, 2011 at 12:43:50PM -0500, James Bottomley wrote:
> I assume from the above that ARM has a hardware page walker?

Correct, and speculative prefetch (which isn't prevented by not having
TLB entries), so you can't keep entries out of the TLB.  If it's in
the page tables it can end up in the TLB.

The problem is that we could end up with conflicting attributes available
to the hardware for the same physical page, and it is _completely_
undefined how hardware behaves with that (except that it does not halt -
and there's no exception path for the condition because there's no
detection of the problem case.)

So, if you had one mapping which was fully cacheable and another mapping
which wasn't, you can flush the TLB all you like - it could be possible
that you still up with an access through the non-cacheable mapping being
cached (either hitting speculatively prefetched cache lines via the
cacheable mapping, or the cacheable attributes being applied to the
non-cacheable mapping - or conversely uncacheable attributes applied to
the cacheable mapping.)

Essentially, the condition is labelled 'unpredictable' in the TRMs,
which basically means that not even observed behaviour can be relied
upon, because there may be cases where the observed behaviour fails.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Daniel Walker <dwalker@codeaurora.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>,
	Chunsang Jeong <chunsang.jeong@linaro.org>,
	Jesse Barker <jesse.barker@linaro.org>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Michal Nazarewicz <mina86@mina86.com>,
	linaro-mm-sig@lists.linaro.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Kyungmin Park <kyungmin.park@samsung.com>,
	Ankita Garg <ankita@in.ibm.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@samsung.com>,
	ksummit-2011-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 6/8] drivers: add Contiguous Memory Allocator
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:00:14 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20110926130014.GG22455@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1312393430.2855.51.camel@mulgrave>

On Wed, Aug 03, 2011 at 12:43:50PM -0500, James Bottomley wrote:
> I assume from the above that ARM has a hardware page walker?

Correct, and speculative prefetch (which isn't prevented by not having
TLB entries), so you can't keep entries out of the TLB.  If it's in
the page tables it can end up in the TLB.

The problem is that we could end up with conflicting attributes available
to the hardware for the same physical page, and it is _completely_
undefined how hardware behaves with that (except that it does not halt -
and there's no exception path for the condition because there's no
detection of the problem case.)

So, if you had one mapping which was fully cacheable and another mapping
which wasn't, you can flush the TLB all you like - it could be possible
that you still up with an access through the non-cacheable mapping being
cached (either hitting speculatively prefetched cache lines via the
cacheable mapping, or the cacheable attributes being applied to the
non-cacheable mapping - or conversely uncacheable attributes applied to
the cacheable mapping.)

Essentially, the condition is labelled 'unpredictable' in the TRMs,
which basically means that not even observed behaviour can be relied
upon, because there may be cases where the observed behaviour fails.

--
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: linux@arm.linux.org.uk (Russell King - ARM Linux)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [PATCH 6/8] drivers: add Contiguous Memory Allocator
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:00:14 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20110926130014.GG22455@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1312393430.2855.51.camel@mulgrave>

On Wed, Aug 03, 2011 at 12:43:50PM -0500, James Bottomley wrote:
> I assume from the above that ARM has a hardware page walker?

Correct, and speculative prefetch (which isn't prevented by not having
TLB entries), so you can't keep entries out of the TLB.  If it's in
the page tables it can end up in the TLB.

The problem is that we could end up with conflicting attributes available
to the hardware for the same physical page, and it is _completely_
undefined how hardware behaves with that (except that it does not halt -
and there's no exception path for the condition because there's no
detection of the problem case.)

So, if you had one mapping which was fully cacheable and another mapping
which wasn't, you can flush the TLB all you like - it could be possible
that you still up with an access through the non-cacheable mapping being
cached (either hitting speculatively prefetched cache lines via the
cacheable mapping, or the cacheable attributes being applied to the
non-cacheable mapping - or conversely uncacheable attributes applied to
the cacheable mapping.)

Essentially, the condition is labelled 'unpredictable' in the TRMs,
which basically means that not even observed behaviour can be relied
upon, because there may be cases where the observed behaviour fails.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2011-09-26 13:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 183+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-07-05  7:41 [PATCHv11 0/8] Contiguous Memory Allocator Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41 ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41 ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 1/8] mm: move some functions from memory_hotplug.c to page_isolation.c Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:27   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:27     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:27     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 2/8] mm: alloc_contig_freed_pages() added Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:30   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:30     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:30     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 3/8] mm: alloc_contig_range() added Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:31   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:31     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:31     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 4/8] mm: MIGRATE_CMA migration type added Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:44   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:44     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:44     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:27     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 12:27       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 12:27       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 5/8] mm: MIGRATE_CMA isolation functions added Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:45   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:45     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:45     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 6/8] drivers: add Contiguous Memory Allocator Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 10:24   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 10:24     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 10:24     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:02   ` [PATCH 6/8 RESEND] " Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:02     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:02     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:50     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:50       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:50       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:33   ` [PATCH 6/8] " Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 11:33     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 11:33     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 12:27     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:27       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:27       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:30       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 12:30         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 12:30         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 13:58         ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 13:58           ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 13:58           ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-08 17:25           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-08 17:25             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-08 17:25             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-12 13:39             ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-12 13:39               ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-12 13:39               ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-08-03 17:43       ` James Bottomley
2011-08-03 17:43         ` James Bottomley
2011-08-03 17:43         ` James Bottomley
2011-09-26 12:06         ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-09-26 12:06           ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-09-26 12:06           ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-09-26 13:00         ` Russell King - ARM Linux [this message]
2011-09-26 13:00           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-09-26 13:00           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 13:58     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 13:58       ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 13:58       ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 14:09       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 14:09         ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 14:09         ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 14:23         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 14:23           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 14:23           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 14:37           ` [Linaro-mm-sig] " Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-06 14:37             ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-06 14:37             ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-06 14:59             ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 14:59               ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 14:59               ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-09 14:57               ` Janusz Krzysztofik
2011-07-09 14:57                 ` Janusz Krzysztofik
2011-07-09 14:57                 ` Janusz Krzysztofik
2011-07-11 13:47                 ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-11 13:47                   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-11 13:47                   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-11 19:01                   ` Janusz Krzysztofik
2011-07-11 19:01                     ` Janusz Krzysztofik
2011-07-11 19:01                     ` Janusz Krzysztofik
2011-07-12  5:34                     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-12  5:34                       ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-12  5:34                       ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 14:51           ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 14:51             ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 14:51             ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 15:48             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 15:48               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 15:48               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 16:05               ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 16:05                 ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 16:05                 ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 16:09                 ` Michal Nazarewicz
2011-07-06 16:09                   ` Michal Nazarewicz
2011-07-06 16:09                   ` Michal Nazarewicz
2011-07-06 16:19                   ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 16:19                     ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 16:19                     ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 17:15                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 17:15                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 17:15                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 19:03                       ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 19:03                         ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 19:03                         ` Christoph Lameter
2011-07-06 17:02                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 17:02                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 17:02                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 16:31               ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 16:31                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 16:31                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 19:10                 ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-06 19:10                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-06 19:10                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-06 20:23                   ` [Linaro-mm-sig] " Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 20:23                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-06 20:23                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-07  5:29                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-07  5:29                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-07  5:29                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2011-07-06 14:56         ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 14:56           ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 14:56           ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 15:37           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 15:37             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 15:37             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 15:47             ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 15:47               ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-06 15:47               ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-14 12:29   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-14 12:29     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-14 12:29     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 7/8] ARM: integrate CMA with dma-mapping subsystem Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:50   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:50     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:50     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05  7:41 ` [PATCH 8/8] ARM: S5PV210: example of CMA private area for FIMC device on Goni board Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05  7:41   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-05 11:51   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:51     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 11:51     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:07 ` [PATCHv11 0/8] Contiguous Memory Allocator Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:07   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:07   ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-05 12:28   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 12:28     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-05 12:28     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2011-07-06 22:11   ` Andrew Morton
2011-07-06 22:11     ` Andrew Morton
2011-07-06 22:11     ` Andrew Morton
2011-07-07  7:36     ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-07  7:36       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-07  7:36       ` Arnd Bergmann
2011-07-11 13:24     ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-11 13:24       ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-11 13:24       ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-20  8:57 [PATCHv12 " Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-20  8:57 ` [PATCH 6/8] drivers: add " Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-20  8:57   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-07-20  8:57   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-08-19 14:27 [PATCHv15 0/8] " Marek Szyprowski
2011-08-19 14:27 ` [PATCH 6/8] drivers: add " Marek Szyprowski
2011-08-19 14:27   ` Marek Szyprowski
2011-08-19 14:27   ` Marek Szyprowski

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