decommissioning parisc-linux.org

decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

As Paul noted[1], parisc-linux.org was running a vulnerable
apache which got the attention of HP's security audit team. I've been
doing most of the maintenance of the OS on this machine for a while,
but that has just meant apt-get upgrading when cron-apt told me to for
a few years. Turns out apache-ssl was obsolete (an etch version!), so
no amount of upgrading was going to fix that.

At this point I've removed apache-ssl. I tried installing apache2 to
see if any web pages would magically work - it didn't, so right now
the website is 404 farm :( I didn't spend much time trying to handle
that since.....

parisc-linux.org is running the last stable release of Debian that
supported hppa ('lenny'), and its life is now expired. As such, I
think we really need to migrate the site to another maintained
distribution and/or architecture. I'm willing to help migrate services
for the next month or so - let's just say 2012.03.14 for a good round
(heh) date - after which I plan to halt this system and let HP know
the hardware can be put to other uses. From what I can tell, we
originally installed this system almost exactly 9 years ago - ah,
rememember its predecessor dsl2? Good times. Anyway -

*************************************************************************
*** If you need any data off this machine, now's the time to grab it! ***
*************************************************************************

If you'd like to take over longterm hosting the website/domain, please
get in touch with taggart or I. If you'd like to continue using the
machine and/or HP's network to do the hosting, I can probably find a
contact for you there - though I wouldn't bet on it.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.

[1] http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-parisc/msg03946.html

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Thibaut VARENE]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 3:33 PM, dann frazier <dannf@dannf.org> wrote:
> As Paul noted[1], parisc-linux.org was running a vulnerable
> apache which got the attention of HP's security audit team. I've been
> doing most of the maintenance of the OS on this machine for a while,
> but that has just meant apt-get upgrading when cron-apt told me to for
> a few years. Turns out apache-ssl was obsolete (an etch version!), so
> no amount of upgrading was going to fix that.
>
> At this point I've removed apache-ssl. I tried installing apache2 to
> see if any web pages would magically work - it didn't, so right now
> the website is 404 farm :( I didn't spend much time trying to handle
> that since.....
>
> parisc-linux.org is running the last stable release of Debian that
> supported hppa ('lenny'), and its life is now expired. As such, I
> think we really need to migrate the site to another maintained
> distribution and/or architecture. I'm willing to help migrate services
> for the next month or so - let's just say 2012.03.14 for a good round
> (heh) date - after which I plan to halt this system and let HP know
> the hardware can be put to other uses. From what I can tell, we
> originally installed this system almost exactly 9 years ago - ah,
> rememember its predecessor dsl2? Good times. Anyway -
>
> *************************************************************************
> *** If you need any data off this machine, now's the time to grab it! ***
> *************************************************************************
>
> If you'd like to take over longterm hosting the website/domain, please
> get in touch with taggart or I. If you'd like to continue using the
> machine and/or HP's network to do the hosting, I can probably find a
> contact for you there - though I wouldn't bet on it.
>
> In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
> for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.

Hi Dann,

What's the status of @p-l.o email addresses? I'm receiving a fair bit
of email on this domain, and I think others do too, if we need to move
on elsewhere it'd be nice to have a little headstart... ;)

Thanks

T-Bone


-- 
Thibaut VARENE
http://www.parisc-linux.org/~varenet/

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 8-Feb-12, at 5:16 PM, Thibaut VARENE wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 3:33 PM, dann frazier <dannf@dannf.org> wrote:
>> As Paul noted[1], parisc-linux.org was running a vulnerable
>> apache which got the attention of HP's security audit team. I've been
>> doing most of the maintenance of the OS on this machine for a while,
>> but that has just meant apt-get upgrading when cron-apt told me to  
>> for
>> a few years. Turns out apache-ssl was obsolete (an etch version!), so
>> no amount of upgrading was going to fix that.
>>
>> At this point I've removed apache-ssl. I tried installing apache2 to
>> see if any web pages would magically work - it didn't, so right now
>> the website is 404 farm :( I didn't spend much time trying to handle
>> that since.....
>>
>> parisc-linux.org is running the last stable release of Debian that
>> supported hppa ('lenny'), and its life is now expired. As such, I
>> think we really need to migrate the site to another maintained
>> distribution and/or architecture. I'm willing to help migrate  
>> services
>> for the next month or so - let's just say 2012.03.14 for a good round
>> (heh) date - after which I plan to halt this system and let HP know
>> the hardware can be put to other uses. From what I can tell, we
>> originally installed this system almost exactly 9 years ago - ah,
>> rememember its predecessor dsl2? Good times. Anyway -
>>
>> *************************************************************************
>> *** If you need any data off this machine, now's the time to grab  
>> it! ***
>> *************************************************************************
>>
>> If you'd like to take over longterm hosting the website/domain,  
>> please
>> get in touch with taggart or I. If you'd like to continue using the
>> machine and/or HP's network to do the hosting, I can probably find a
>> contact for you there - though I wouldn't bet on it.
>>
>> In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on  
>> apache2
>> for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
>
> Hi Dann,
>
> What's the status of @p-l.o email addresses? I'm receiving a fair bit
> of email on this domain, and I think others do too, if we need to move
> on elsewhere it'd be nice to have a little headstart... ;)
>
> Thanks
>
> T-Bone
>
>
> -- 
> Thibaut VARENE
> http://www.parisc-linux.org/~varenet/


parisc-linux.org could be updated to unstable.  As I have mentioned, I  
am working
to restart an unstable buildd for parisc.  The magnum machine in the  
ESIEE cluster
is currently being updated for this purpose.  It is currently running  
a 3.2.2 kernel
and glibc 2.13-10.  I intend to update it to 3.2.4 and glibc 2.13-26  
this weekend.
I have built a big hunk of unstable/

As far as I can tell, the last kernel patch that I post to the @p-l.o  
list, resolves the SMP
stability issues that have plagued parisc for years.  I now have about  
six weeks running
experience on rp3440s without a single random segmentation fault or  
hpmc.  The
machines have been running at load levels not previously possible.   
This is the result
of many incremental fixes to the tool chain and the kernel.

I have no objection to moving the site to another arch although there  
is some political
benefit to having it run on parisc.  I am willing to try to build  
apache2 from unstable.

I believe it would be useful to keep the site going until we see if  
restarting buildd will
fly or not given the current level of improvement.

Regards,
Dave
--
John David Anglin	dave.anglin@bell.net

PS: My first parisc machine is still running and it is 22 years old!

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 8-Feb-12, at 6:47 PM, John David Anglin wrote:

> I am willing to try to build apache2 from unstable.

I have uploaded hppa apache2 2.2.22-1 debs to my archives-new directory
on shirka.esiee.fr.

Dave
--
John David Anglin	dave.anglin@bell.net

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 2/8/2012 8:53 PM, John David Anglin wrote:
> On 8-Feb-12, at 6:47 PM, John David Anglin wrote:
>
>> I am willing to try to build apache2 from unstable.
>
> I have uploaded hppa apache2 2.2.22-1 debs to my archives-new directory
> on shirka.esiee.fr.
I uploaded the latest apr debs this morning.

Dave

-- 
John David Anglin    dave.anglin@bell.net

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Paul Bame]

On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 09:54:39AM -0500, John David Anglin wrote:
> On 2/8/2012 8:53 PM, John David Anglin wrote:
> >On 8-Feb-12, at 6:47 PM, John David Anglin wrote:
> >
> >>I am willing to try to build apache2 from unstable.
> >
> >I have uploaded hppa apache2 2.2.22-1 debs to my archives-new directory
> >on shirka.esiee.fr.
> I uploaded the latest apr debs this morning.

We have a good enough apache2 installed already from the lenny
security repo, but it isn't configured to play nice with the existing
web pages.  Anybody interested in doing that?

	-p

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 06:47:45PM -0500, John David Anglin wrote:
> On 8-Feb-12, at 5:16 PM, Thibaut VARENE wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 3:33 PM, dann frazier <dannf@dannf.org> wrote:
> >>As Paul noted[1], parisc-linux.org was running a vulnerable
> >>apache which got the attention of HP's security audit team. I've been
> >>doing most of the maintenance of the OS on this machine for a while,
> >>but that has just meant apt-get upgrading when cron-apt told me
> >>to for
> >>a few years. Turns out apache-ssl was obsolete (an etch version!), so
> >>no amount of upgrading was going to fix that.
> >>
> >>At this point I've removed apache-ssl. I tried installing apache2 to
> >>see if any web pages would magically work - it didn't, so right now
> >>the website is 404 farm :( I didn't spend much time trying to handle
> >>that since.....
> >>
> >>parisc-linux.org is running the last stable release of Debian that
> >>supported hppa ('lenny'), and its life is now expired. As such, I
> >>think we really need to migrate the site to another maintained
> >>distribution and/or architecture. I'm willing to help migrate
> >>services
> >>for the next month or so - let's just say 2012.03.14 for a good round
> >>(heh) date - after which I plan to halt this system and let HP know
> >>the hardware can be put to other uses. From what I can tell, we
> >>originally installed this system almost exactly 9 years ago - ah,
> >>rememember its predecessor dsl2? Good times. Anyway -
> >>
> >>*************************************************************************
> >>*** If you need any data off this machine, now's the time to
> >>grab it! ***
> >>*************************************************************************
> >>
> >>If you'd like to take over longterm hosting the website/domain,
> >>please
> >>get in touch with taggart or I. If you'd like to continue using the
> >>machine and/or HP's network to do the hosting, I can probably find a
> >>contact for you there - though I wouldn't bet on it.
> >>
> >>In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on
> >>apache2
> >>for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
> >
> >Hi Dann,
> >
> >What's the status of @p-l.o email addresses? I'm receiving a fair bit
> >of email on this domain, and I think others do too, if we need to move
> >on elsewhere it'd be nice to have a little headstart... ;)
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >T-Bone
> >
> >
> 
> 
> parisc-linux.org could be updated to unstable.  As I have mentioned,
> I am working
> to restart an unstable buildd for parisc.  

Yeah, I know this had started, but I haven't been keeping up with
the current status.

> The magnum machine in the
> ESIEE cluster
> is currently being updated for this purpose.  It is currently
> running a 3.2.2 kernel
> and glibc 2.13-10.  I intend to update it to 3.2.4 and glibc 2.13-26
> this weekend.
> I have built a big hunk of unstable/
> 
> As far as I can tell, the last kernel patch that I post to the
> @p-l.o list, resolves the SMP
> stability issues that have plagued parisc for years.  I now have
> about six weeks running
> experience on rp3440s without a single random segmentation fault or
> hpmc.  The
> machines have been running at load levels not previously possible.
> This is the result
> of many incremental fixes to the tool chain and the kernel.

Cool

> I have no objection to moving the site to another arch although
> there is some political
> benefit to having it run on parisc.  I am willing to try to build
> apache2 from unstable.

Well, we have apache2 installed from lenny now - it just isn't serving
anything useful :)

> I believe it would be useful to keep the site going until we see if
> restarting buildd will
> fly or not given the current level of improvement.

I am supportive of the site continuing to self-host, and I realize
that means it needs to run devel bits. But, there's two separate
issues I see there.

 1) We need to bridge the gap between now and then. Even if we had a
    buildd online today, just grinding through the necessary backlog
    would take weeks.
 2) I won't have time to be the principle admin for a system running
    unstable. I'm happy to help here & there, and w/ whatever
    transition ends up happening, but things like manually
    patching/fixing kernels, monitoring security updates and how they
    impact our bits, etc. Its a lot of work just for managing a single
    host.

For 1) I think the right answer is to move services to a new
stable/secure host for the time being and shut the existing machine
down. We can retain the option of moving things back once the unstable
port is in full force. As a side benefit, such a migration should also
help get the existing services running w/ newer packages
(e.g. apache2) and allow us cleanly transition services over w/
minimal downtime (demonstrate a working system first, then update DNS
records). Who knows how painful it will be to go from pre-lenny to sid
all at once.

2) can be solved by moving the domain to someone else's
infrastructure, or having a trusted volunteer to be the primary
admin for the system.

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 11:16:16PM +0100, Thibaut VARENE wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 3:33 PM, dann frazier <dannf@dannf.org> wrote:
> > As Paul noted[1], parisc-linux.org was running a vulnerable
> > apache which got the attention of HP's security audit team. I've been
> > doing most of the maintenance of the OS on this machine for a while,
> > but that has just meant apt-get upgrading when cron-apt told me to for
> > a few years. Turns out apache-ssl was obsolete (an etch version!), so
> > no amount of upgrading was going to fix that.
> >
> > At this point I've removed apache-ssl. I tried installing apache2 to
> > see if any web pages would magically work - it didn't, so right now
> > the website is 404 farm :( I didn't spend much time trying to handle
> > that since.....
> >
> > parisc-linux.org is running the last stable release of Debian that
> > supported hppa ('lenny'), and its life is now expired. As such, I
> > think we really need to migrate the site to another maintained
> > distribution and/or architecture. I'm willing to help migrate services
> > for the next month or so - let's just say 2012.03.14 for a good round
> > (heh) date - after which I plan to halt this system and let HP know
> > the hardware can be put to other uses. From what I can tell, we
> > originally installed this system almost exactly 9 years ago - ah,
> > rememember its predecessor dsl2? Good times. Anyway -
> >
> > *************************************************************************
> > *** If you need any data off this machine, now's the time to grab it! ***
> > *************************************************************************
> >
> > If you'd like to take over longterm hosting the website/domain, please
> > get in touch with taggart or I. If you'd like to continue using the
> > machine and/or HP's network to do the hosting, I can probably find a
> > contact for you there - though I wouldn't bet on it.
> >
> > In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
> > for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
> 
> Hi Dann,
> 
> What's the status of @p-l.o email addresses? I'm receiving a fair bit
> of email on this domain, and I think others do too, if we need to move
> on elsewhere it'd be nice to have a little headstart... ;)

My assumption is that mail will follow the domain.

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Martin K. Petersen]

>>>>> "Dann" == dann frazier <dannf@dannf.org> writes:

>> What's the status of @p-l.o email addresses? I'm receiving a fair bit
>> of email on this domain, and I think others do too, if we need to
>> move on elsewhere it'd be nice to have a little headstart... ;)

Dann> My assumption is that mail will follow the domain.

I would like something to be done with the mail situation. It totally
sucks being secondary mx since I get to deal with all the spam bounces
and blacklistings.

We can either move mail forwarding to my machine wholesale so I can fix
things or we can leave it on palinux and discontinue having me as
secondary. I'm happy either way.

I'm also happy to continue providing DNS. I would like the ability to
update the zone files, though. I would have fixed the mail problems long
ago if I could...

-- 
Martin K. Petersen	Oracle Linux Engineering

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 02:18:21PM -0500, Martin K. Petersen wrote:
> >>>>> "Dann" == dann frazier <dannf@dannf.org> writes:
> 
> >> What's the status of @p-l.o email addresses? I'm receiving a fair bit
> >> of email on this domain, and I think others do too, if we need to
> >> move on elsewhere it'd be nice to have a little headstart... ;)
> 
> Dann> My assumption is that mail will follow the domain.
> 
> I would like something to be done with the mail situation. It totally
> sucks being secondary mx since I get to deal with all the spam bounces
> and blacklistings.
> 
> We can either move mail forwarding to my machine wholesale so I can fix
> things or we can leave it on palinux and discontinue having me as
> secondary. I'm happy either way.

Well, my vote is that we take you up on that offer and move it to you,
at least while things are in flux. Only problem I see  is that some
people don't forward their mail off of palinux, but its probably a
good idea to deprecate that RSN.

> I'm also happy to continue providing DNS. I would like the ability to
> update the zone files, though. I would have fixed the mail problems long
> ago if I could...

I don't see any reason we wouldn't let you take over even primary if
you wanted to. Frankly, I'm surprised we hadn't given you whatever
privs you needed already - really just seems like an oversight on our
part, my apologies.

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 9-Feb-12, at 12:55 PM, dann frazier wrote:

> Well, we have apache2 installed from lenny now - it just isn't serving
> anything useful :)
>

I don't know much about about web page setup, so I can't be much
help for this.

>> I believe it would be useful to keep the site going until we see if
>> restarting buildd will
>> fly or not given the current level of improvement.
>
> I am supportive of the site continuing to self-host, and I realize
> that means it needs to run devel bits. But, there's two separate
> issues I see there.
>
> 1) We need to bridge the gap between now and then. Even if we had a
>    buildd online today, just grinding through the necessary backlog
>    would take weeks.

Yes, I have been working on bridging the gap manually since last
summer.  I now have 5829 debs in my unstable archive.  Generally, things
have gotten easier as system stability has improved and bugs were
fixed.  It is a big job but I've done it in my spare time.

> 2) I won't have time to be the principle admin for a system running
>    unstable. I'm happy to help here & there, and w/ whatever
>    transition ends up happening, but things like manually
>    patching/fixing kernels, monitoring security updates and how they
>    impact our bits, etc. Its a lot of work just for managing a single
>    host.
>
> For 1) I think the right answer is to move services to a new
> stable/secure host for the time being and shut the existing machine
> down. We can retain the option of moving things back once the unstable
> port is in full force. As a side benefit, such a migration should also
> help get the existing services running w/ newer packages
> (e.g. apache2) and allow us cleanly transition services over w/
> minimal downtime (demonstrate a working system first, then update DNS
> records). Who knows how painful it will be to go from pre-lenny to sid
> all at once.
>
> 2) can be solved by moving the domain to someone else's
> infrastructure, or having a trusted volunteer to be the primary
> admin for the system.


I need to update a few more packages before magnum is ready for buildd.

Thibaut offered to setup the buildd but doesn't have a lot of free  
time.  I'm
willing to do general system admin and monitoring the build system,
but Thibaut  has to be in charge.  I'm hoping that Carlos is still  
willing to help
with uploads, and to try to get his current patches into the debian  
eglibc 2.13
patch set.  Otherwise, we may have to have a separate patch set.

I think ESIEE is the logical host site.  Magnum will be moved to an  
"open" IP
when it's ready to start building.  It will require careful  
firewalling at that time.

No objection to moving the current buildd to magnum.  I guess the  
security
updates are the biggest issue.  Once the buildd is running, we can  
work on
transitioning to a final release.

Dave
--
John David Anglin	dave.anglin@bell.net

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Thibaut VARENE]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:11 PM, John David Anglin <dave.anglin@bell.ne=
t> wrote:
> On 9-Feb-12, at 12:55 PM, dann frazier wrote:

>> 2) I won't have time to be the principle admin for a system running
>> =C2=A0 unstable. I'm happy to help here & there, and w/ whatever
>> =C2=A0 transition ends up happening, but things like manually
>> =C2=A0 patching/fixing kernels, monitoring security updates and how =
they
>> =C2=A0 impact our bits, etc. Its a lot of work just for managing a s=
ingle
>> =C2=A0 host.
>>
>> For 1) I think the right answer is to move services to a new
>> stable/secure host for the time being and shut the existing machine
>> down. We can retain the option of moving things back once the unstab=
le
>> port is in full force. As a side benefit, such a migration should al=
so
>> help get the existing services running w/ newer packages
>> (e.g. apache2) and allow us cleanly transition services over w/
>> minimal downtime (demonstrate a working system first, then update DN=
S
>> records). Who knows how painful it will be to go from pre-lenny to s=
id
>> all at once.
>>
>> 2) can be solved by moving the domain to someone else's
>> infrastructure, or having a trusted volunteer to be the primary
>> admin for the system.
>
>
>
> I need to update a few more packages before magnum is ready for build=
d.
>
> Thibaut offered to setup the buildd but doesn't have a lot of free ti=
me.
> =C2=A0I'm
> willing to do general system admin and monitoring the build system,
> but Thibaut =C2=A0has to be in charge. =C2=A0I'm hoping that Carlos i=
s still willing
> to help
> with uploads, and to try to get his current patches into the debian e=
glibc
> 2.13
> patch set. =C2=A0Otherwise, we may have to have a separate patch set.

Erm, it appears I didn't make myself clear: I'm willing to provide the
/hardware/ for buildd setup, but I certainly do not have time to tend
to routine buildd maintenance, as I've mentioned already. I understood
that at some point Carlos wanted to handle that part, but from what I
gather, he's also busy so it's probably not happening. I agree we need
someone to take care of the buildds, but I'm afraid it cannot be me.

HTH

--=20
Thibaut VARENE
http://www.parisc-linux.org/~varenet/
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 11-Feb-12, at 5:12 PM, Thibaut VARENE wrote:

> Erm, it appears I didn't make myself clear: I'm willing to provide the
> /hardware/ for buildd setup, but I certainly do not have time to tend
> to routine buildd maintenance, as I've mentioned already. I understood
> that at some point Carlos wanted to handle that part, but from what I
> gather, he's also busy so it's probably not happening. I agree we need
> someone to take care of the buildds, but I'm afraid it cannot be me.


I understand.  I'm willing to take care of the buildds, and do whatever
porting and patches that need doing as I can.  What I meant is that
you have to be in charge of system security as impacts the cluster
as a whole.  In particular, I think you will have to be involved in the
firewall setup.

I wasn't asking you to support the general system updates or buildd  
maintenance.

I will try to setup the autobuilders and hopefully Dann can answer any
questions that might arise.  The big question is the is the upload  
process
which I'm totally unfamiliar with.  There is also the security updates.

I don't know how busy Carlos is at the moment and whether he is still  
interested
in helping.  I know he gets impossible projects from time to time.

Dave
--
John David Anglin	dave.anglin@bell.net

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Thibaut VARENE]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:41 PM, John David Anglin
<dave.anglin@bell.net> wrote:
> On 11-Feb-12, at 5:12 PM, Thibaut VARENE wrote:

> I understand. =C2=A0I'm willing to take care of the buildds, and do w=
hatever
> porting and patches that need doing as I can. =C2=A0What I meant is t=
hat
> you have to be in charge of system security as impacts the cluster
> as a whole. =C2=A0In particular, I think you will have to be involved=
 in the
> firewall setup.

Oh sure, no problem with that. I'd need some info as to what are the
needed services on the machine tho. My default firewall policy is
INPUT: DROP ;-)

Besides the firewall / access control, I think the only important
thing to take care of is MX configuration (ISTR buildds need a working
MX to function) so that the machine doesn't become an open-relay that
would put ESIEE's subnet onto the DNSBLs...

> I wasn't asking you to support the general system updates or buildd
> maintenance.

Roger that.

Cheers,
T-Bone

--=20
Thibaut VARENE
http://www.parisc-linux.org/~varenet/
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Carlos O'Donell]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 5:41 PM, John David Anglin <dave.anglin@bell.ne=
t> wrote:
> I don't know how busy Carlos is at the moment and whether he is still
> interested in helping. =A0I know he gets impossible projects from tim=
e to time.

Unfortunately I'm *very* busy right now.

However, I will continue to do all the work required to keep HPPA
working in glibc.

Please keep me in the loop and I'll try to help out whenever I can :-)

Cheers,
Carlos.
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 11-Feb-12, at 6:29 PM, Carlos O'Donell wrote:

> However, I will continue to do all the work required to keep HPPA
> working in glibc.

Here is what needs doing in glibc:

         * need to backport current 2.13 patches to debian
         * change build to gcc-4.6
         * update test failure list, or disable so package builds
         * broken password and group caching -- I disabled it in nscd  
conf

I believe that that I sent the patches for 2.13.  They are based on what
you sent me plus Guy's patch.  If you want, I'll send them again.
It looks to me like the next debian release will be based on 2.13.

gcc-4.6 is now the default compiler for unstable although glibc still
builds with 4.4.  I believe 4.6 is better than 4.4 based on my testing.

A more complicated issue is the multiarch support in unstable.  For
testing, it may be necessary to use current or 2.22 branch binutils,
gcc with multiarch support, and a glibc build with multiarch support.
debs are in the archives directory on shirka.esiee.fr.  If you don't
want to bother updating your a500, magnum on the esiee cluster
is updated.

My latest kernel patch posted to the parisc list resolves thread
issues for git, perl, python, etc.  There are still some cancellation
failures in the glibc testsuite, but I think the overall number of fails
is down.  Given that I'm seeing much better stability not using
the tmpalias region for clear_user_page and copy_user_page,
I think the next step is to remove this support from pacache.S.
Still using the tmpalias region for flushes but in the back of my
mind I think even the flushes may be racy (same page used for
two different mappings).

The nscd bug isn't critical and has been around for years.  Still,
it needs working around.

Regards,
Dave
--
John David Anglin	dave.anglin@bell.net

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[James Bottomley]

On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
> In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
> for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
> 
I can probably do that.  At least the static part, since I run a bunch
of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.

I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server side
scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
entirely functional yet.

James

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[James Bottomley]

On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:38 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
> > In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
> > for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
> > 
> I can probably do that.  At least the static part, since I run a bunch
> of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.
> 
> I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server side
> scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
> entirely functional yet.

OK, done and up.

it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...

James

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[James Bottomley]

On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:38 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
> > > In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
> > > for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
> > > 
> > I can probably do that.  At least the static part, since I run a bunch
> > of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.
> > 
> > I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server side
> > scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
> > entirely functional yet.
> 
> OK, done and up.
> 
> it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...

I think I'm done.  I've got the three sites
{www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running.  There aren't any more,
are there (wiki seems to be eisee)?  Could someone also check the links
to see that nothing's broken.

Thanks,

James

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Carlos O'Donell]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 3:01 PM, James Bottomley
<James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
>> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:38 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
>> > On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
>> > > In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on a=
pache2
>> > > for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
>> > >
>> > I can probably do that. =A0At least the static part, since I run a=
 bunch
>> > of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.
>> >
>> > I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server =
side
>> > scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
>> > entirely functional yet.
>>
>> OK, done and up.
>>
>> it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...
>
> I think I'm done. =A0I've got the three sites
> {www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running. =A0There aren't any m=
ore,
> are there (wiki seems to be eisee)? =A0Could someone also check the l=
inks
> to see that nothing's broken.

I did a quick check and everything seems to be working!

Thanks!

Cheers,
Carlos.
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 12-Feb-12, at 5:47 PM, Carlos O'Donell wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 3:01 PM, James Bottomley
> <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:38 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
>>>>> In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on  
>>>>> apache2
>>>>> for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
>>>>>
>>>> I can probably do that.  At least the static part, since I run a  
>>>> bunch
>>>> of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.
>>>>
>>>> I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server  
>>>> side
>>>> scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
>>>> entirely functional yet.
>>>
>>> OK, done and up.
>>>
>>> it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...
>>
>> I think I'm done.  I've got the three sites
>> {www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running.  There aren't any  
>> more,
>> are there (wiki seems to be eisee)?  Could someone also check the  
>> links
>> to see that nothing's broken.
>
> I did a quick check and everything seems to be working!
>

Fantastic!  Deserves a note on PA-RISC news.

Dave
--
John David Anglin	dave.anglin@bell.net

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Carlos O'Donell]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:56 PM, John David Anglin <dave.anglin@bell.ne=
t> wrote:
> Fantastic! =A0Deserves a note on PA-RISC news.

OK, I've checked in an update to index.x with a new news entry, however=
=2E..

I'm not part of the webadmin group and therefore I can't update the web=
site.

Cheers,
Carlos.
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Grant Grundler]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM, James Bottomley
<James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
>> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:38 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
>> > On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
>> > > In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on a=
pache2
>> > > for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
>> > >
>> > I can probably do that. =C2=A0At least the static part, since I ru=
n a bunch
>> > of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.
>> >
>> > I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server =
side
>> > scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
>> > entirely functional yet.
>>
>> OK, done and up.
>>
>> it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...
>
> I think I'm done. =C2=A0I've got the three sites
> {www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running. =C2=A0There aren't an=
y more,
> are there (wiki seems to be eisee)?

James,
=46irst, thanks for resurrecting the services for the parisc-linux.org =
domain.

Will ssh accounts be resurrected? I can provide a new SSH public key
if necessary/preferred. It's been a convenient place for me to park
any PA-RISC documents that I stumble across on the web.

Dann/Matt,
DNS entry for iou.parisc-linux.org can be killed if it hasn't been
yet. That used to point to gsyprf11.external.hp.com which was
decommission last year.

cheers,
grant
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[James Bottomley]

On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 20:05 -0800, Grant Grundler wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM, James Bottomley
> <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:38 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> >> > On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
> >> > > In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
> >> > > for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
> >> > >
> >> > I can probably do that.  At least the static part, since I run a bunch
> >> > of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.
> >> >
> >> > I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server side
> >> > scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
> >> > entirely functional yet.
> >>
> >> OK, done and up.
> >>
> >> it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...
> >
> > I think I'm done.  I've got the three sites
> > {www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running.  There aren't any more,
> > are there (wiki seems to be eisee)?
> 
> James,
> First, thanks for resurrecting the services for the parisc-linux.org domain.

You're welcome.

> Will ssh accounts be resurrected?

Um, I don't think they've ever been revoked. Otherwise I wouldn't have
been able to log into palinux and fix stuff.

James


>  I can provide a new SSH public key
> if necessary/preferred. It's been a convenient place for me to park
> any PA-RISC documents that I stumble across on the web.
> 
> Dann/Matt,
> DNS entry for iou.parisc-linux.org can be killed if it hasn't been
> yet. That used to point to gsyprf11.external.hp.com which was
> decommission last year.
> 
> cheers,
> grant
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-parisc" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[James Bottomley]

On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 21:22 -0500, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:56 PM, John David Anglin <dave.anglin@bell.net> wrote:
> > Fantastic!  Deserves a note on PA-RISC news.
> 
> OK, I've checked in an update to index.x with a new news entry, however...
> 
> I'm not part of the webadmin group and therefore I can't update the website.

You are now.

James

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Thibaut VARENE]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 9:01 PM, James Bottomley
<James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:

>> > I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server =
side
>> > scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
>> > entirely functional yet.
>>
>> OK, done and up.
>>
>> it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...
>
> I think I'm done. =C2=A0I've got the three sites
> {www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running. =C2=A0There aren't an=
y more,
> are there (wiki seems to be eisee)? =C2=A0Could someone also check th=
e links
> to see that nothing's broken.

Hi James,

Thanks for your help! The only thing that seems to be missing is
userdir support ("a2enmod userdir" should fix it)

Cheers,
T-Bone

--=20
Thibaut VARENE
http://www.parisc-linux.org/~varenet/
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Carlos O'Donell]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:56 PM, John David Anglin <dave.anglin@bell.ne=
t> wrote:
>> I did a quick check and everything seems to be working!
>
> Fantastic! =A0Deserves a note on PA-RISC news.

The website has been updated with a new news entry :-)

Cheers,
Carlos.
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Thibaut VARENE]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Thibaut VARENE
<T-Bone@parisc-linux.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 9:01 PM, James Bottomley
> <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
>
>>> > I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server=
 side
>>> > scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
>>> > entirely functional yet.
>>>
>>> OK, done and up.
>>>
>>> it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...
>>
>> I think I'm done. =C2=A0I've got the three sites
>> {www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running. =C2=A0There aren't a=
ny more,
>> are there (wiki seems to be eisee)? =C2=A0Could someone also check t=
he links
>> to see that nothing's broken.
>
> Hi James,
>
> Thanks for your help! The only thing that seems to be missing is
> userdir support ("a2enmod userdir" should fix it)

Just remembered I have admin access to palinux so I took care of
enabling userdirs. Sorry for not realizing this sooner ;P

HTH
T-Bone

--=20
Thibaut VARENE
http://www.parisc-linux.org/~varenet/
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 02:11:30PM -0500, John David Anglin wrote:
> On 9-Feb-12, at 12:55 PM, dann frazier wrote:
> 
> >Well, we have apache2 installed from lenny now - it just isn't serving
> >anything useful :)
> >
> 
> I don't know much about about web page setup, so I can't be much
> help for this.
> 
> >>I believe it would be useful to keep the site going until we see if
> >>restarting buildd will
> >>fly or not given the current level of improvement.
> >
> >I am supportive of the site continuing to self-host, and I realize
> >that means it needs to run devel bits. But, there's two separate
> >issues I see there.
> >
> >1) We need to bridge the gap between now and then. Even if we had a
> >   buildd online today, just grinding through the necessary backlog
> >   would take weeks.
> 
> Yes, I have been working on bridging the gap manually since last
> summer.  I now have 5829 debs in my unstable archive.  Generally, things
> have gotten easier as system stability has improved and bugs were
> fixed.  It is a big job but I've done it in my spare time.
> 
> >2) I won't have time to be the principle admin for a system running
> >   unstable. I'm happy to help here & there, and w/ whatever
> >   transition ends up happening, but things like manually
> >   patching/fixing kernels, monitoring security updates and how they
> >   impact our bits, etc. Its a lot of work just for managing a single
> >   host.
> >
> >For 1) I think the right answer is to move services to a new
> >stable/secure host for the time being and shut the existing machine
> >down. We can retain the option of moving things back once the unstable
> >port is in full force. As a side benefit, such a migration should also
> >help get the existing services running w/ newer packages
> >(e.g. apache2) and allow us cleanly transition services over w/
> >minimal downtime (demonstrate a working system first, then update DNS
> >records). Who knows how painful it will be to go from pre-lenny to sid
> >all at once.
> >
> >2) can be solved by moving the domain to someone else's
> >infrastructure, or having a trusted volunteer to be the primary
> >admin for the system.
> 
> 
> I need to update a few more packages before magnum is ready for buildd.
> 
> Thibaut offered to setup the buildd but doesn't have a lot of free
> time.  I'm
> willing to do general system admin and monitoring the build system,
> but Thibaut  has to be in charge.  I'm hoping that Carlos is still
> willing to help
> with uploads, and to try to get his current patches into the debian
> eglibc 2.13
> patch set.  Otherwise, we may have to have a separate patch set.
> 
> I think ESIEE is the logical host site.  Magnum will be moved to an
> "open" IP
> when it's ready to start building.  It will require careful
> firewalling at that time.
> 
> No objection to moving the current buildd to magnum.  I guess the
> security
> updates are the biggest issue.  Once the buildd is running, we can
> work on
> transitioning to a final release.

All of the above sounds like good progress. However, it still leaves the
parisc-linux.org machine running an unsupported OS for an undefined
amount of time. During that time, this box will either need to be
shutoff, or manually patched to avoid HP audit scans (or, worse yet,
actual exploits). If the plan is to migrate this system to the
debian-ports unstable archive when it becomes available, we'll need
someone to maintain that install as well.

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 08:05:37PM -0800, Grant Grundler wrote:
> Dann/Matt,
> DNS entry for iou.parisc-linux.org can be killed if it hasn't been
> yet. That used to point to gsyprf11.external.hp.com which was
> decommission last year.

Matt - can you handle that?

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 02:01:42PM -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:49 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> > On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 08:38 -0600, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 07:33 -0700, dann frazier wrote:
> > > > In the meantime, if anyone wants to get the website working on apache2
> > > > for the remainder of the system's lifetime, please let me know.
> > > > 
> > > I can probably do that.  At least the static part, since I run a bunch
> > > of apache 2 websites on my hosted system.
> > > 
> > > I've enabled it and put it up ... but it uses some type of server side
> > > scripting which I need to enable in the apache mods, so it's not
> > > entirely functional yet.
> > 
> > OK, done and up.
> > 
> > it was using SSI ... I haven't seen that for at least 20 years ...
> 
> I think I'm done.  I've got the three sites
> {www,ftp,hwdb}.parisc-linux.org up and running.  There aren't any more,
> are there (wiki seems to be eisee)?  Could someone also check the links
> to see that nothing's broken.

Good work!

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Thibaut VARENE]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:05 PM, dann frazier <dannf@dannf.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 02:11:30PM -0500, John David Anglin wrote:
>> On 9-Feb-12, at 12:55 PM, dann frazier wrote:


>> >For 1) I think the right answer is to move services to a new
>> >stable/secure host for the time being and shut the existing machine
>> >down. We can retain the option of moving things back once the unsta=
ble
>> >port is in full force. As a side benefit, such a migration should a=
lso
>> >help get the existing services running w/ newer packages
>> >(e.g. apache2) and allow us cleanly transition services over w/
>> >minimal downtime (demonstrate a working system first, then update D=
NS
>> >records). Who knows how painful it will be to go from pre-lenny to =
sid
>> >all at once.
>> >
>> >2) can be solved by moving the domain to someone else's
>> >infrastructure, or having a trusted volunteer to be the primary
>> >admin for the system.
>>
>>
>> I need to update a few more packages before magnum is ready for buil=
dd.
>>
>> Thibaut offered to setup the buildd but doesn't have a lot of free
>> time. =C2=A0I'm
>> willing to do general system admin and monitoring the build system,
>> but Thibaut =C2=A0has to be in charge. =C2=A0I'm hoping that Carlos =
is still
>> willing to help
>> with uploads, and to try to get his current patches into the debian
>> eglibc 2.13
>> patch set. =C2=A0Otherwise, we may have to have a separate patch set=
=2E
>>
>> I think ESIEE is the logical host site. =C2=A0Magnum will be moved t=
o an
>> "open" IP
>> when it's ready to start building. =C2=A0It will require careful
>> firewalling at that time.
>>
>> No objection to moving the current buildd to magnum. =C2=A0I guess t=
he
>> security
>> updates are the biggest issue. =C2=A0Once the buildd is running, we =
can
>> work on
>> transitioning to a final release.
>
> All of the above sounds like good progress. However, it still leaves =
the
> parisc-linux.org machine running an unsupported OS for an undefined
> amount of time. During that time, this box will either need to be
> shutoff, or manually patched to avoid HP audit scans (or, worse yet,
> actual exploits). If the plan is to migrate this system to the
> debian-ports unstable archive when it becomes available, we'll need
> someone to maintain that install as well.

It looks to me like this burden clearly outweighs the benefits of
being selfhosted, so maybe the right move is to use a supported
architecture for hosting the website? Given the "audience" for
linux-parisc, I don't think it would make a significant difference...

my 2c.
T-Bone


--=20
Thibaut VARENE
http://www.parisc-linux.org/~varenet/
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Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[Carlos O'Donell]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Thibaut VARENE <T-Bone@parisc-linux.org> wrote:
> It looks to me like this burden clearly outweighs the benefits of
> being selfhosted, so maybe the right move is to use a supported
> architecture for hosting the website? Given the "audience" for
> linux-parisc, I don't think it would make a significant difference...

I tend to agree. Use the right tool for the right job.

Fun hacking = HPPA.

Serve the website = x86.

Cheers,
Carlos.

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 01:33:48PM -0500, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Thibaut VARENE <T-Bone@parisc-linux.org> wrote:
> > It looks to me like this burden clearly outweighs the benefits of
> > being selfhosted, so maybe the right move is to use a supported
> > architecture for hosting the website? Given the "audience" for
> > linux-parisc, I don't think it would make a significant difference...
> 
> I tend to agree. Use the right tool for the right job.
> 
> Fun hacking = HPPA.
> 
> Serve the website = x86.

fyi, the subnet on which palinux (aka parisc-linux.org) is hosted will
be going away at the end of February. This sounds like a good target
date for the move :)

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[John David Anglin]

On 23-Jan-13, at 4:17 PM, dann frazier wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 01:33:48PM -0500, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Thibaut VARENE <T-Bone@parisc-linux.org 
>> > wrote:
>>> It looks to me like this burden clearly outweighs the benefits of
>>> being selfhosted, so maybe the right move is to use a supported
>>> architecture for hosting the website? Given the "audience" for
>>> linux-parisc, I don't think it would make a significant  
>>> difference...
>>
>> I tend to agree. Use the right tool for the right job.
>>
>> Fun hacking = HPPA.
>>
>> Serve the website = x86.
>
> fyi, the subnet on which palinux (aka parisc-linux.org) is hosted will
> be going away at the end of February. This sounds like a good target
> date for the move :)

There are a few people who still use the domain for parisc related mail.
James Bottomley is the most active.  Hopefully, this will also get moved
with the website.

Dave
--
John David Anglin	dave.anglin@bell.net

Re: decommissioning parisc-linux.org

[dann frazier]

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 06:14:01PM -0500, John David Anglin wrote:
> On 23-Jan-13, at 4:17 PM, dann frazier wrote:
> 
> >On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 01:33:48PM -0500, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> >>On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Thibaut VARENE
> >><T-Bone@parisc-linux.org> wrote:
> >>>It looks to me like this burden clearly outweighs the benefits of
> >>>being selfhosted, so maybe the right move is to use a supported
> >>>architecture for hosting the website? Given the "audience" for
> >>>linux-parisc, I don't think it would make a significant
> >>>difference...
> >>
> >>I tend to agree. Use the right tool for the right job.
> >>
> >>Fun hacking = HPPA.
> >>
> >>Serve the website = x86.
> >
> >fyi, the subnet on which palinux (aka parisc-linux.org) is hosted will
> >be going away at the end of February. This sounds like a good target
> >date for the move :)
> 
> There are a few people who still use the domain for parisc related mail.
> James Bottomley is the most active.  Hopefully, this will also get moved
> with the website.

Yeah, I agree - it just needs somewhere to move to first :)

We can also just point the MX somewhere else, if there's a good
mail hosting option that doesn't want to host the website.

Note that it sounds like HP might be willing to move the system to a
new DC, re-IP and basically run it till something fails. But that's an
inevitable eventuality, and at that point it becomes an emergency.