[ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[marat]

I'm proud to announce WinGit:
an attempt to bring Git powers to 64-bit Windows.

WinGit is currently used only by my coworkers and isn't considered
production-ready-rock-solid. Use at your own risk.


Homepage & build instructions
-----------------------------
https://github.com/slonopotamus/wingit


Binaries
--------
MSI packages: https://github.com/slonopotamus/wingit/releases

After installation, git.exe is ready to be used from cmd.exe or TortoiseGit.
No kind of "Git Bash" or own explorer integration is provided.


Issues
------
Of course WinGit has issues:
https://github.com/slonopotamus/wingit/issues?state=open

Most notable are: git documentation is not packaged, no Tcl/Tk (thus, no gitk),
no SVN, no Explorer integration.


Sources
------------------

All sources are available on GitHub: https://github.com/slonopotamus/wingit

I know that build.sh is UGLY, especially openssl part.


Relationship with msysgit
=========================

Unlike msysgit, WinGit is a pure-Windows binary build with MSVC.

Like msysgit, WinGit also uses msys environment (sh/perl/etc) both during
build-time and runtime.

WinGit adds a few patches to Git itself on top of msysgit ones.
Patches are required due to insufficient testing of MSVC builds
(caused by total absence of any MSVC-built Git distributions).

All WinGit patches are sent upstream, just didn't get to master yet.

Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Konstantin Khomoutov]

On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 17:18:50 +0400
marat@slonopotamus.org wrote:

> I'm proud to announce WinGit:
> an attempt to bring Git powers to 64-bit Windows.
[...]
> Relationship with msysgit
> =========================
> 
> Unlike msysgit, WinGit is a pure-Windows binary build with MSVC.
> 
> Like msysgit, WinGit also uses msys environment (sh/perl/etc) both
> during build-time and runtime.
> 
> WinGit adds a few patches to Git itself on top of msysgit ones.
> Patches are required due to insufficient testing of MSVC builds
> (caused by total absence of any MSVC-built Git distributions).
> 
> All WinGit patches are sent upstream, just didn't get to master yet.

What is the state of Unicode support in WinGit?

Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Marat Radchenko]

On Thursday 03 April 2014 at 17:48:08  Konstantin Khomoutov wrote:
>
> What is the state of Unicode support in WinGit?

I haven't seen any Unicode-related issues when using through TortoiseGit.

Command-line usage is currently broken: no UTF-8 <->cmd.exe encoding
conversion is performed. Fixing this is a high-priority issue though,
most likely by migrating to newer (yet-to-be-released) msys lib.

Fwd: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

>
> I know that build.sh is UGLY, especially openssl part.
>
> Unlike msysgit, WinGit is a pure-Windows binary build with MSVC.
>
> Like msysgit, WinGit also uses msys environment (sh/perl/etc) both during
> build-time and runtime.
>
> WinGit adds a few patches to Git itself on top of msysgit ones.
> Patches are required due to insufficient testing of MSVC builds
> (caused by total absence of any MSVC-built Git distributions).
>


I've created CMake files to be able to build git with MSVC without the
need for msys. I haven't tested it with latest git and didn't really
see the recent changes with respect to compilation with MSVC.

But, if you're interested, let me know.

Vincent

RE: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Felipe Contreras]

marat@ wrote:
> I'm proud to announce WinGit: an attempt to bring Git powers to 64-bit
> Windows.
> 
> WinGit is currently used only by my coworkers and isn't considered
> production-ready-rock-solid. Use at your own risk.

Thank you for doing this, it's very much needed. It would be great if there was
a place to list all the tools that need to be converted to C, so that neither
Perl, nor a shell are needed for most of Git's operations, don't you think?

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Heiko Voigt]

Hi Marat,

On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 05:18:50PM +0400, marat@slonopotamus.org wrote:
> I'm proud to announce WinGit:
> an attempt to bring Git powers to 64-bit Windows.

So the reason for this new package is that you need 64bit binaries?

> Relationship with msysgit
> =========================
> 
> Unlike msysgit, WinGit is a pure-Windows binary build with MSVC.
> 
> Like msysgit, WinGit also uses msys environment (sh/perl/etc) both during
> build-time and runtime.

I can see the need for a pure Windows solution (no msys tools at least for
runtime). But this sounds to me that the only thing you changed is the
compiler and 64bit? The git binaries in msysgit are already pure Windows
binaries with no need of msys.dll. The only reason why so many other
tools are shipped with msysgit is to run scripted commands (e.g. like
gitk or rebase).

What is the reason of using a closed source compiler? Why not use the
64bit mingw that is already used to build the 64bit explorer extension
to package 64bit binaries along with the 32bit ones in the installer?

Sorry if I am a little bit skeptic, but I am wondering whether it does
make sense for you to join forces with msysgit instead of creating a
fork? I think the main reason why there are no 64 bit binaries shipped
with msysgit is that nobody needed them and the need to ship both (at
least for some time).

That would also make the maintenance burden easier for you.

Cheers Heiko

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Re: Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Johannes Schindelin]

Hi,

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Heiko Voigt wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 05:18:50PM +0400, marat@slonopotamus.org wrote:
> > I'm proud to announce WinGit:
> > an attempt to bring Git powers to 64-bit Windows.
> 
> So the reason for this new package is that you need 64bit binaries?
> 
> > Relationship with msysgit
> > =========================
> > 
> > Unlike msysgit, WinGit is a pure-Windows binary build with MSVC.

Marat, please do not add to the confusion. "msysGit" is the name of the
*development environment* for developing Git for Windows. It also brings
facilities to use MSVC instead of GCC.

So do not compare WinGit to msysgit (that would be like comparing Git to
GCC). Compare WinGit to Git for Windows (and clarify that you mean a
different WinGit than the old name of Git for Windows).

> > Like msysgit, WinGit also uses msys environment (sh/perl/etc) both
> > during build-time and runtime.

So it is not purely 64-bit, because MSys is not.

> I can see the need for a pure Windows solution (no msys tools at least for
> runtime). But this sounds to me that the only thing you changed is the
> compiler and 64bit? The git binaries in msysgit are already pure Windows
> binaries with no need of msys.dll. The only reason why so many other
> tools are shipped with msysgit is to run scripted commands (e.g. like
> gitk or rebase).
> 
> What is the reason of using a closed source compiler? Why not use the
> 64bit mingw that is already used to build the 64bit explorer extension
> to package 64bit binaries along with the 32bit ones in the installer?
> 
> Sorry if I am a little bit skeptic, but I am wondering whether it does
> make sense for you to join forces with msysgit instead of creating a
> fork? I think the main reason why there are no 64 bit binaries shipped
> with msysgit is that nobody needed them and the need to ship both (at
> least for some time).

We do have a facility to build 64-bit binaries with msysGit. It is even
dirt-easy: just run the two release scripts in /src/mingw-w64/, and then
build Git with "make W64=1".

The real reason why Git for Windows does not ship 64-bit binaries is that
they did not pass the test suite last time I tried.

And for the record: I would have welcome contributions to the Git for
Windows project. I still will. After all, there is no reason for yet
another fork.

Ciao,
Johannes

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Re: Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Marat Radchenko]

On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 05:24:33PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> Marat, please do not add to the confusion. "msysGit" is the name of the
> *development environment* for developing Git for Windows.

This confusion comes from the fact that major part of msysGit is packaged
with Git for Windows to be used at runtime.

If you insist on msysGit-is-a-development-environment, you have to admit
that msysGit is technically a fork of msys.

My approach undoes this fork step and uses upstream runtime environment
as-is, be it msys, msys2, Cygwin or even SUA [1]. I could even make it a
noop and say "dear user, I don't care how, but please put sh/awk/find/etc
on PATH to make Git work, like things normally happen in *nix world".

Actually, even if Git was pure C, things like `git filter-branch` would
be almost useless without coreutils & friends.

> After all, there is no reason for yet another fork.

If there wasn't, mingwGitDevEnv would not be started.

I'd say I am doing a 'rebase' instead of 'fork' by using codebase of
Git for Windows (upstream Git sources with Windows-specific patches)
but replacing msysGit-provided runtime environment with another one.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX

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Re: Re: Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Heiko Voigt]

On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 08:58:32PM +0400, Marat Radchenko wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 05:24:33PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> > Marat, please do not add to the confusion. "msysGit" is the name of the
> > *development environment* for developing Git for Windows.
> 
> This confusion comes from the fact that major part of msysGit is packaged
> with Git for Windows to be used at runtime.

Only the tools that are needed to run git (and some that the
contributors like) are packaged in Git for Windows. For example there is
no compiler or similar packaged.

> If you insist on msysGit-is-a-development-environment, you have to admit
> that msysGit is technically a fork of msys.

Well it is a git repository that conveniently packages all the needed
tools you need to build "Git for Windows" together. It is a little bit
quick and dirty but it works. We have nothing against improving this
situation.

> My approach undoes this fork step and uses upstream runtime environment
> as-is, be it msys, msys2, Cygwin or even SUA [1]. I could even make it a
> noop and say "dear user, I don't care how, but please put sh/awk/find/etc
> on PATH to make Git work, like things normally happen in *nix world".
> 
> Actually, even if Git was pure C, things like `git filter-branch` would
> be almost useless without coreutils & friends.
> 
> > After all, there is no reason for yet another fork.
> 
> If there wasn't, mingwGitDevEnv would not be started.

I would not consider mingwGitDevEnv a fork. It is more msysgit next
generation. But it needs more work to fully replace msysgit.

> I'd say I am doing a 'rebase' instead of 'fork' by using codebase of
> Git for Windows (upstream Git sources with Windows-specific patches)
> but replacing msysGit-provided runtime environment with another one.

The downside of doing this approach is that you regularly have to update
your 'rebase' and fix problems. If you integrate your changes into
msysgit itself you do not have to do that anymore.
Well, if it is one of your changes that breaks something, it still would
be nice if you do so ;-)

> [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX

Cheers Heiko

P.S.: BTW, just in case: Being criticized in open-source is good. Even
though it might not feel like that. It means people care about the stuff
you do and think it is important enough it deserves a reply. They just
want to help you improve it.

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Re: Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Sebastian Schuberth]

On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Heiko Voigt <hvoigt@hvoigt.net> wrote:

> But AFAIK its not ready for production use yet. I guess Sebastian would
> not mind contributions.

Not at all!

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Re: Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Heiko Voigt]

On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 05:35:07PM +0400, Marat Radchenko wrote:
> > there are no 64 bit binaries shipped with msysgit is that nobody
> > needed them
> 
> That's wrong. Google for 'windows x64 git' or 'msysgit x64'. People
> need it. There's even an issue [3] (stalled several years ago) in
> msysgit tracker.  After all, I needed it.

Do not get me wrong. I was saying until now nobody "needed" it in a way
that he/she would do something about it. Of course there are many people
requesting it, but I just do not count those people anymore. You are
clearly doing something about it and thats great, I like it.

What I am trying to achieve here is that you join the msysgit community.
There already is just a very small amount of developers on the windows
side (compared to upstream). We should try to all work together. I think
it will greatly add to confusion if we have another installer of Git for
Windows. I think the msysgit community is quite open for changes like
the ones you are trying to achieve.

Regarding mingwGitDevEnv[2]: That is a project started by Sebastian who
also contributes to msysgit (and Git for Windows). It eventually can
(and probably should) be a successor of the current situation where we
always manually patch, build and commit our binaries into a git
repository. A proper package management system would greatly help here.
But AFAIK its not ready for production use yet. I guess Sebastian would
not mind contributions.

Cheers Heiko

> [1] https://github.com/msysgit/msysgit/issues/31
> [2]: https://github.com/sschuberth/mingwGitDevEnv
> [3]: http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/issues/detail?id=396

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Re: Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Johannes Schindelin]

Hi Marat,

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Marat Radchenko wrote:

> But in practice, msysgit is:
>  1) outdated msys that was patched in multiple ways without
>   sending patches upstream
>  2) heavily patched git, again not upstreamed

Again, this time explicitly: I wish you had done a little more research on
the matter, and I wish you had participated in the msysGit community
before going on to reinvent the wheel.

I have nothing per se against your effort, of course, you can spend your
time as you want, but please refrain from claiming things that are
provably incorrect.

Ciao,
Johannes

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Re: Re: [ANNOUNCE] WinGit - native x86/x64 Git for Windows

[Thomas Braun]

Am 19.04.2014 15:35, schrieb Marat Radchenko:

>> So the reason for this new package is that you need 64bit
>> binaries?
> 
> That's the most important bit. Plus, weird ssh transfer speeds [1]
> caused by ansient openssh bundled in msysgit.

Yes the msysgit openssh is ancient and slow. Openssh in mingGitDevEnv
has proper speeds, see [1].

> 1) outdated msys that was patched in multiple ways without sending patches upstream
> 2) heavily patched git, again not upstreamed

You do realize how much work it is to send something upstream?
And in the case of mingw patches have been sent upstream which are still
either being reviewed or are just in a (presumably *very* long) queue.

>> Sorry if I am a little bit skeptic, but I am wondering whether it
>> does make sense for you to join forces with msysgit instead of
>> creating a fork?
> 
> 1) It makes sense to purge msysgit and start over. See mingwGitDevEnv
> [2] (by msysgit developer).

I would be happy to see you contributing to the mingGitDevEnv project.

> 2)  I only used msys due to my
> unawareness of msys2 at the time of  initial WinGit hacking. Due to
> massive Unicode-related msys troubles, ansient perl and svn, I plan
> to switch to msys2 soon.
> 
>> there are no 64 bit binaries shipped with msysgit is that nobody
>> needed them
> 
> That's wrong. Google for 'windows x64 git' or 'msysgit x64'. People
> need it. There's even an issue [3] (stalled several years ago) in
> msysgit tracker. After all, I needed it.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/msysgit/msysgit/issues/31 [2]:
> https://github.com/sschuberth/mingwGitDevEnv [3]:
> http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/issues/detail?id=396

Actually I would need a 64bit git for windows too. The problem here is
that of course everyone likes to have it, but nobody so desperatley what
he/she will start to make the test suite pass.
And before the test suite passes I don't think it is a good idea to use
it in production.
So for my part I decided to first get mingwGitDevEnv going and then
start thinking about a 64bit version.

[1]:
https://github.com/sschuberth/mingwGitDevEnv/pull/5#issuecomment-15128748

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