Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Hao Lee]

Hi,

Sorry to bother you. I'm a kernel newbie from China, so it will be
better if we could have a new mail list to communicate in chinese. If
you don't mind, could you create a mail list called
kernel-zh at kernelnewbies.org and create a FrontPage for us.
We would appreciate it very much.
If you need to specify someone to edit our own FrontPage, I can help.
My username is HaoLee, thanks a lot.

Thanks,
Hao Lee

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Andrey Utkin]

On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 04:00:52PM +0800, Hao Lee wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry to bother you. I'm a kernel newbie from China, so it will be
> better if we could have a new mail list to communicate in chinese. If
> you don't mind, could you create a mail list called
> kernel-zh at kernelnewbies.org and create a FrontPage for us.
> We would appreciate it very much.
> If you need to specify someone to edit our own FrontPage, I can help.
> My username is HaoLee, thanks a lot.

You won't benefit from this, because people answering newbie questions
here are not Chinese, so if you request Chinese-speaking department, it
will be unstaffed with question-answerers.

I guess there is a huge amount of Chinese-speaking kernel hackers eager
to help newbies, but they are not that active on this particular mailing
list, so you could just search elsewhere for what you asked for.

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[swalow swalow]

(Accidentally replied only to Andrey. Sorry for the spam, Andrey)

Sorry for being a newb and speaking out but maybe the reason is that this
mail list is in English and they don't feel comfortable answering/asking in
it? There might be other reasons that my Western educated brain cannot
grasp. If it's not too much work, why not give them a chance? Worst case
they will come back here and be forced to ask the question in English. Best
case more people will be involved in the conversation.

Respectfully,
Georgi

On Sep 5, 2016 1:30 PM, "Andrey Utkin" <andrey_utkin@fastmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 04:00:52PM +0800, Hao Lee wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Sorry to bother you. I'm a kernel newbie from China, so it will be
> > better if we could have a new mail list to communicate in chinese. If
> > you don't mind, could you create a mail list called
> > kernel-zh at kernelnewbies.org and create a FrontPage for us.
> > We would appreciate it very much.
> > If you need to specify someone to edit our own FrontPage, I can help.
> > My username is HaoLee, thanks a lot.
>
> You won't benefit from this, because people answering newbie questions
> here are not Chinese, so if you request Chinese-speaking department, it
> will be unstaffed with question-answerers.
>
> I guess there is a huge amount of Chinese-speaking kernel hackers eager
> to help newbies, but they are not that active on this particular mailing
> list, so you could just search elsewhere for what you asked for.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kernelnewbies mailing list
> Kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
>
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Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Andrey Utkin]

On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 01:40:23PM -0400, swalow swalow wrote:
> Sorry for being a newb and speaking out but maybe the reason is that this
> mail list is in English and they don't feel comfortable answering/asking in
> it? There might be other reasons that my Western educated brain cannot
> grasp. If it's not too much work, why not give them a chance? Worst case
> they will come back here and be forced to ask the question in English. Best
> case more people will be involved in the conversation.

Replying in public.

My vision is that if some nice people of Chinese origination AND
qualified as experienced kernel developers would have
time and habit to reply newbie questions on kernelnewbies mailing list,
they would often reply also to questions posted in English,
because
 - to succeed as kernel dev you must have good English, so good kernel
   devs all know English well, and
 - it would be unfair to answer only to your compatriots when a lot of
   newbies of different nations want help, too.

And what I see happening is that no people with Chinese names are
answering the questions here. Most of answers come from Greg
Kroah-Hartman, who doesn't speak Chinese I guess. However, I'm watching
this list just for two weeks, so my conclusion may be wrong.

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Adam Lee]

On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 04:00:52PM +0800, Hao Lee wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry to bother you. I'm a kernel newbie from China, so it will be
> better if we could have a new mail list to communicate in chinese. If
> you don't mind, could you create a mail list called
> kernel-zh at kernelnewbies.org and create a FrontPage for us.
> We would appreciate it very much.
> If you need to specify someone to edit our own FrontPage, I can help.
> My username is HaoLee, thanks a lot.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hao Lee

Actually we have one: kernel at vger.linux-kernel.cn, but it has extremely
low activity.

I suggest you ask and answer in this kernelnewbies mail list. People are
nice here, simple/basic English is not a problem.

-- 
Adam Lee
http://adam8157.info

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Hao Lee]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Andrey Utkin <andrey_utkin@fastmail.com> wrote:
> My vision is that if some nice people of Chinese origination AND
> qualified as experienced kernel developers would have
> time and habit to reply newbie questions on kernelnewbies mailing list,
> they would often reply also to questions posted in English,
> because
>  - to succeed as kernel dev you must have good English, so good kernel
>    devs all know English well, and
>  - it would be unfair to answer only to your compatriots when a lot of
>    newbies of different nations want help, too.
>
> And what I see happening is that no people with Chinese names are
> answering the questions here. Most of answers come from Greg
> Kroah-Hartman, who doesn't speak Chinese I guess. However, I'm watching
> this list just for two weeks, so my conclusion may be wrong.

Hi, Andrey Utkin

Thanks for your advice. I agree that English is very useful when we
discuss kernel problems, but it's also necessary for us to have our
native language maillist. With this list, we can talk about various
topics, even trivial questions about kernel and I believe we can help
a lot of Chinese developers. If we can't deal with some difficult
problems, we will certainly ask for help in English list. Several
years ago, we once had a chinese mail list which domain is
http://zh-kernel.org and many Chinese developer, such as Herbert Xu,
Wang Cong, Mingming Cao and Bryan Wu, were active in this list. But,
it's very pity that this domain is invalid now. That's why I request a
mail list.

Thanks,
Hao Lee

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Hao Lee]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Adam Lee <adam8157@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Actually we have one: kernel at vger.linux-kernel.cn, but it has extremely
> low activity.
>
> I suggest you ask and answer in this kernelnewbies mail list. People are
> nice here, simple/basic English is not a problem.
>

Hi, Adam Lee

Thanks for your reply. I've searched this email address for details.
It seems that the domain linux-kernel.cn has been invalid and I
couldn't access www.linux-kernel.cn. Is the mailing list still in use?

Thanks,
Hao Lee

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Adam Lee]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 12:47:05PM +0800, Hao Lee wrote:
> Thanks for your reply. I've searched this email address for details.
> It seems that the domain linux-kernel.cn has been invalid and I
> couldn't access www.linux-kernel.cn. Is the mailing list still in use?
> 
> Thanks,
> Hao Lee

Yep, still alive, checked.

Just send a mail to it then follow the steps in its replied mail.

-- 
Adam Lee
http://adam8157.info

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Schrey, Moritz]

> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Andrey Utkin
> <andrey_utkin@fastmail.com> wrote:
> > My vision is that if some nice people of Chinese origination AND
> > qualified as experienced kernel developers would have time and habit
> > to reply newbie questions on kernelnewbies mailing list, they would
> > often reply also to questions posted in English, because
> >  - to succeed as kernel dev you must have good English, so good
> kernel
> >    devs all know English well, and
> >  - it would be unfair to answer only to your compatriots when a lot
> of
> >    newbies of different nations want help, too.
> >
> > And what I see happening is that no people with Chinese names are
> > answering the questions here. Most of answers come from Greg
> > Kroah-Hartman, who doesn't speak Chinese I guess. However, I'm
> > watching this list just for two weeks, so my conclusion may be wrong.
> 
> Hi, Andrey Utkin
> 
> Thanks for your advice. I agree that English is very useful when we
> discuss kernel problems, but it's also necessary for us to have our
> native language maillist. With this list, we can talk about various
> topics, even trivial questions about kernel and I believe we can help a
> lot of Chinese developers. If we can't deal with some difficult
> problems, we will certainly ask for help in English list. Several years
> ago, we once had a chinese mail list which domain is http://zh-
> kernel.org and many Chinese developer, such as Herbert Xu, Wang Cong,
> Mingming Cao and Bryan Wu, were active in this list. But, it's very
> pity that this domain is invalid now. That's why I request a mail list.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hao Lee
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Kernelnewbies mailing list
> Kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies

Following your rationale, there should be separate mailing lists for every kernel hacker language. This would reduce the scope of helpful answers and lessen the motivation to answer with helpful comments at all, as less people are likely to read it. 

Trivial questions of all kind have been asked and answered on this list. 

How should a Chinese kernel developer contribute to the kernel if he/she does not feel comfortable to speak English?

Due to the above, I feel that there should be only one kernelnewbies mailing list, which accumulates all newbies and people willing to help. 

Cheers, 
Moritz

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Anuz Pratap Singh Tomar]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Schrey, Moritz <
moritz.schrey@ias.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

> > On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Andrey Utkin
> > <andrey_utkin@fastmail.com> wrote:
> > > My vision is that if some nice people of Chinese origination AND
> > > qualified as experienced kernel developers would have time and habit
> > > to reply newbie questions on kernelnewbies mailing list, they would
> > > often reply also to questions posted in English, because
> > >  - to succeed as kernel dev you must have good English, so good
> > kernel
> > >    devs all know English well, and
> > >  - it would be unfair to answer only to your compatriots when a lot
> > of
> > >    newbies of different nations want help, too.
> > >
> > > And what I see happening is that no people with Chinese names are
> > > answering the questions here. Most of answers come from Greg
> > > Kroah-Hartman, who doesn't speak Chinese I guess. However, I'm
> > > watching this list just for two weeks, so my conclusion may be wrong.
> >
> > Hi, Andrey Utkin
> >
> > Thanks for your advice. I agree that English is very useful when we
> > discuss kernel problems, but it's also necessary for us to have our
> > native language maillist. With this list, we can talk about various
> > topics, even trivial questions about kernel and I believe we can help a
> > lot of Chinese developers. If we can't deal with some difficult
> > problems, we will certainly ask for help in English list. Several years
> > ago, we once had a chinese mail list which domain is http://zh-
> > kernel.org and many Chinese developer, such as Herbert Xu, Wang Cong,
> > Mingming Cao and Bryan Wu, were active in this list. But, it's very
> > pity that this domain is invalid now. That's why I request a mail list.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Hao Lee
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Kernelnewbies mailing list
> > Kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> > https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
>
> Following your rationale, there should be separate mailing lists for every
> kernel hacker language. This would reduce the scope of helpful answers and
> lessen the motivation to answer with helpful comments at all, as less
> people are likely to read it.
>
> Trivial questions of all kind have been asked and answered on this list.
>
> How should a Chinese kernel developer contribute to the kernel if he/she
> does not feel comfortable to speak English?
>
> Due to the above, I feel that there should be only one kernelnewbies
> mailing list, which accumulates all newbies and people willing to help.
>
>
To add to that, this list is already low traffic (3-4 mails per day).
I don't know how much traffic a language specific mailing list will
generate.
Majority of Kernel documentation and pretty much most kernel code comments
are in English.
Non technical and regional issues may be discussed in regional languages,
but I suppose LUGs are more suitable for such conversation compared to a
kernel mailing list.
That being said, if you have resources to create a mailing list in your
language, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't start one yourself and may
be add an entry to newbies website. The mention of such entry may or may
not be on front page of newbie website, that is something admins of site
will decide.

Thank
-A
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Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Ruben Safir]

On 09/06/2016 12:47 AM, Hao Lee wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Adam Lee <adam8157@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Actually we have one: kernel at vger.linux-kernel.cn, but it has extremely
>> low activity.
>>

Isn't it easier for the Chinese to learn English.  The source is in
romantic chars.

>> I suggest you ask and answer in this kernelnewbies mail list. People are
>> nice here, simple/basic English is not a problem.
>>
> 
> Hi, Adam Lee
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I've searched this email address for details.
> It seems that the domain linux-kernel.cn has been invalid and I
> couldn't access www.linux-kernel.cn. Is the mailing list still in use?
> 
> Thanks,
> Hao Lee
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Kernelnewbies mailing list
> Kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
> 


-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[ruben]

On 09/06/2016 08:29 AM, Anuz Pratap Singh Tomar wrote:
> I don't see a reason why you shouldn't start one yourself and may be add
> an entry to newbies website. The mention of such entry may or may not be
> on front page of newbie website, that is something admins of site will
> decide.


it doesn't really matter and this is a waste of time.  We are not 
Chinese.  If we want a mailing list we just make one and post it on our 
web pages, we don't ask for permission.  If you want a chinese mailing 
list, go make one.

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Daniel.]

I agree with Ruben

We're opensource developers, when we are not happy with something, we
fork it... lol. Still, I'm brazillian and have already found other
brazillians at this list. When I want to talk in portuguese I send a
message directly to they, no problem at all. If you see some good
chinese hacker, talk to him. People are more accessible than we think.

2016-09-06 18:15 GMT-03:00 ruben <ruben@mrbrklyn.com>:
>
>
> On 09/06/2016 08:29 AM, Anuz Pratap Singh Tomar wrote:
>> I don't see a reason why you shouldn't start one yourself and may be add
>> an entry to newbies website. The mention of such entry may or may not be
>> on front page of newbie website, that is something admins of site will
>> decide.
>
>
> it doesn't really matter and this is a waste of time.  We are not
> Chinese.  If we want a mailing list we just make one and post it on our
> web pages, we don't ask for permission.  If you want a chinese mailing
> list, go make one.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kernelnewbies mailing list
> Kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies



-- 
"Do or do not. There is no try"
  Yoda Master

Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu]

On Tue, 06 Sep 2016 20:04:20 -0300, "Daniel." said:

> We're opensource developers, when we are not happy with something, we
> fork it... lol. Still, I'm brazillian and have already found other
> brazillians at this list.

The problem isn't finding other Brazilians.  It's having a sufficiently
large collection of Brazilians that you have a reasonable expectation that
at least one of them knows the correct answer to the question.

For a demonstration of the problem, consider that there are 4,418 people
subscribed to this list.  Now count up the number of people who actually
know the kernel well and reply to questions regularly.  It's significantly
smaller than 4,418.  Probably closer to 40, depending how you define "know the
kernel and post regularly".  So on the order of 1% or so....

What are the chances that a non-English subset of the list gets at least
one Greg KH?  What happens on a sub-list that doesn't have a Greg KH?

For another worked example, wander around github or sourceforge, and look
at how many projects are forks done by somebody who, in the end, didn't
have the resources needed to support the fork long-term, resulting in "Freds
own version of Wumble" that's still based on the 2007 version of Wumble, and
is now 7 major versions behind.

For a third worked example - what happened to the *previous* attempt at
a Chinese-language version of the list?  And how do the people wanting a
new version plan to avoid the exact same issues that killed the old one?

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Request Chinese mail list and FrontPage

[Omar Faruk]

ruben <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> On 09/06/2016 08:29 AM, Anuz Pratap Singh Tomar wrote:
> > I don't see a reason why you shouldn't start one yourself and may be add
> > an entry to newbies website. The mention of such entry may or may not be
> > on front page of newbie website, that is something admins of site will
> > decide.
> 
> 
> it doesn't really matter and this is a waste of time.  We are not 
> Chinese.  If we want a mailing list we just make one and post it on our 
> web pages, we don't ask for permission.  If you want a chinese mailing 
> list, go make one.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Kernelnewbies mailing list
> Kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies



































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