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From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Byungchul Park <byungchul.park@lge.com>,
	Byungchul Park <max.byungchul.park@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	david@fromorbit.com,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	oleg@redhat.com, kernel-team@lge.com, daniel@ffwll.ch
Subject: Re: About the try to remove cross-release feature entirely by Ingo
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:44:17 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171230204417.GF27959@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171230154041.GB3366@thunk.org>

On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 10:40:41AM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:16:24PM -0800, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > > The problems come from wrong classification. Waiters either classfied
> > > well or invalidated properly won't bitrot.
> > 
> > I disagree here.  As Ted says, it's the interactions between the
> > subsystems that leads to problems.  Everything's goig to work great
> > until somebody does something in a way that's never been tried before.
> 
> The question what is classified *well* mean?  At the extreme, we could
> put the locks for every single TCP connection into their own lockdep
> class.  But that would blow the limits in terms of the number of locks
> out of the water super-quickly --- and it would destroy the ability
> for lockdep to learn what the proper locking order should be.  Yet
> given Lockdep's current implementation, the only way to guarantee that
> there won't be any interactions between subsystems that cause false
> positives would be to categorizes locks for each TCP connection into
> their own class.

I'm not sure I agree with this part.  What if we add a new TCP lock class
for connections which are used for filesystems/network block devices/...?
Yes, it'll be up to each user to set the lockdep classification correctly,
but that's a relatively small number of places to add annotations,
and I don't see why it wouldn't work.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>
To: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Byungchul Park <byungchul.park@lge.com>,
	Byungchul Park <max.byungchul.park@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	david@fromorbit.com,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	oleg@redhat.com, kernel-team@lge.com, daniel@ffwll.ch
Subject: Re: About the try to remove cross-release feature entirely by Ingo
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 12:44:17 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20171230204417.GF27959@bombadil.infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20171230154041.GB3366@thunk.org>

On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 10:40:41AM -0500, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:16:24PM -0800, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > > The problems come from wrong classification. Waiters either classfied
> > > well or invalidated properly won't bitrot.
> > 
> > I disagree here.  As Ted says, it's the interactions between the
> > subsystems that leads to problems.  Everything's goig to work great
> > until somebody does something in a way that's never been tried before.
> 
> The question what is classified *well* mean?  At the extreme, we could
> put the locks for every single TCP connection into their own lockdep
> class.  But that would blow the limits in terms of the number of locks
> out of the water super-quickly --- and it would destroy the ability
> for lockdep to learn what the proper locking order should be.  Yet
> given Lockdep's current implementation, the only way to guarantee that
> there won't be any interactions between subsystems that cause false
> positives would be to categorizes locks for each TCP connection into
> their own class.

I'm not sure I agree with this part.  What if we add a new TCP lock class
for connections which are used for filesystems/network block devices/...?
Yes, it'll be up to each user to set the lockdep classification correctly,
but that's a relatively small number of places to add annotations,
and I don't see why it wouldn't work.

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  reply	other threads:[~2017-12-30 20:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 82+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-12-13  6:24 About the try to remove cross-release feature entirely by Ingo Byungchul Park
2017-12-13  6:24 ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-13  7:13 ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-13  7:13   ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-13 15:23   ` Bart Van Assche
2017-12-13 15:23     ` Bart Van Assche
2017-12-14  3:07   ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-14  3:07     ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-14  5:58     ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-14  5:58       ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-14 11:18     ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-14 11:18       ` Peter Zijlstra
2017-12-14 13:30       ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-14 13:30         ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-13 10:46 ` [PATCH] locking/lockdep: Remove the cross-release locking checks Ingo Molnar
2017-12-13 10:46   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-13 10:46   ` Ingo Molnar
2017-12-14  5:01   ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-14  5:01     ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-15  4:05     ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-15  4:05       ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-15  6:24       ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-15  6:24         ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-15  7:38         ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-15  7:38           ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-15  8:39         ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-15  8:39           ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-15 21:15           ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-15 21:15             ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-16  2:41             ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-16  2:41               ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  1:47 ` About the try to remove cross-release feature entirely by Ingo Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  1:47   ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  2:02   ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  2:02     ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  3:51   ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-29  3:51     ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-29  7:28     ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  7:28       ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-30  6:16       ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-30  6:16         ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-30 15:40         ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-30 15:40           ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-30 20:44           ` Matthew Wilcox [this message]
2017-12-30 20:44             ` Matthew Wilcox
2017-12-30 22:40             ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-30 22:40               ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-30 23:00               ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-30 23:00                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2018-01-01 10:18                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-01-01 10:18                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-01-01 16:00                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2018-01-01 16:00                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2018-01-03  2:38                     ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  2:38                       ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  2:28                   ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  2:28                     ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  2:58                     ` Dave Chinner
2018-01-03  2:58                       ` Dave Chinner
2018-01-03  5:48                       ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  5:48                         ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-05 16:49                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2018-01-05 16:49                     ` J. Bruce Fields
2018-01-05 17:05                     ` J. Bruce Fields
2018-01-05 17:05                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2018-01-03  2:10               ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  2:10                 ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  7:05                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2018-01-03  7:05                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2018-01-03  8:10                   ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  8:10                     ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  8:23                     ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  8:23                       ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  8:23                       ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  1:57           ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-03  1:57             ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-02  7:57         ` Byungchul Park
2018-01-02  7:57           ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  8:09   ` Amir Goldstein
2017-12-29  8:09     ` Amir Goldstein
2017-12-29  9:46     ` Byungchul Park
2017-12-29  9:46       ` Byungchul Park

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