From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> To: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org> Cc: Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com>, Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky@gmail.com>, akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com>, Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>, Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>, Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>, Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp>, rostedt@home.goodmis.org, Byungchul Park <byungchul.park@lge.com>, Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky.work@gmail.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 0/2] printk: Console owner and waiter logic cleanup Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:34:51 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20180110193451.GB3460072@devbig577.frc2.facebook.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20180110141758.1f88e1a0@vmware.local.home> Hello, Steven. On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 02:17:58PM -0500, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > I'm not really sure why punting to a safe context is necessarily > > unacceptable in terms of #1 because there seems to be a pretty wide > > gap between printing useful messages synchronously and a system being > > caught in printk flush to the point where the system is not > > operational at all. > > And what do you define as a "safe" context. And what happens when the > system is hosed and that "safe" context no longer exists? How do you > know that the safe context is gone? Hmm.. yeah, we have that problem now too. Panic bypassing synchronizations solves some of that I guess. > I admit now that the OOM net console bug is a real issue. But my > saying that you were being unrealistic was more about that module you > posted to try to demonstrate the issue. Heh, our recollections would differ widely there, but let's leave it at that. > Right now my focus is an incremental approach. I'm not trying to solve > all issues that printk has. I've focused on a single issue, and that is > that printk is unbounded. Coming from a Real Time background, I find > that is a big problem. I hate unbounded algorithms. I looked at this > and found a way to make printk have a max bounded time it can print. > Sure, it can be more than what you want, but it is a constant time, > that can be measured. Hence, it is an O(1) solution. It is bound iff there are contexts which can bounce the flushing role among them, right? > Now, if there is still issues with printk, there may be cases where > offloading makes sense. I don't see why we should stop my solution > because we are not addressing these other issues where offloading may > make sense. My solution is simple, and does not impact other solutions. > It may even show that other solutions are not needed. But that's a good > thing. > > I'm not against an offloading solution if it can solve issues without > impacting the other printk use cases. I'm currently only focusing on > this solution which you are fighting me against. Oh yeah, sure. It might actually be pretty simple to combine into your solution. For example, can't we just always make sure that there's at least one sleepable context which participates in your pingpongs, which only kicks in when a particular context is trapped too long? Thanks. -- tejun
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org> To: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org> Cc: Petr Mladek <pmladek@suse.com>, Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky@gmail.com>, akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com>, Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>, Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>, Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>, Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp>, rostedt@home.goodmis.org, Byungchul Park <byungchul.park@lge.com>, Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky.work@gmail.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 0/2] printk: Console owner and waiter logic cleanup Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:34:51 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20180110193451.GB3460072@devbig577.frc2.facebook.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20180110141758.1f88e1a0@vmware.local.home> Hello, Steven. On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 02:17:58PM -0500, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > I'm not really sure why punting to a safe context is necessarily > > unacceptable in terms of #1 because there seems to be a pretty wide > > gap between printing useful messages synchronously and a system being > > caught in printk flush to the point where the system is not > > operational at all. > > And what do you define as a "safe" context. And what happens when the > system is hosed and that "safe" context no longer exists? How do you > know that the safe context is gone? Hmm.. yeah, we have that problem now too. Panic bypassing synchronizations solves some of that I guess. > I admit now that the OOM net console bug is a real issue. But my > saying that you were being unrealistic was more about that module you > posted to try to demonstrate the issue. Heh, our recollections would differ widely there, but let's leave it at that. > Right now my focus is an incremental approach. I'm not trying to solve > all issues that printk has. I've focused on a single issue, and that is > that printk is unbounded. Coming from a Real Time background, I find > that is a big problem. I hate unbounded algorithms. I looked at this > and found a way to make printk have a max bounded time it can print. > Sure, it can be more than what you want, but it is a constant time, > that can be measured. Hence, it is an O(1) solution. It is bound iff there are contexts which can bounce the flushing role among them, right? > Now, if there is still issues with printk, there may be cases where > offloading makes sense. I don't see why we should stop my solution > because we are not addressing these other issues where offloading may > make sense. My solution is simple, and does not impact other solutions. > It may even show that other solutions are not needed. But that's a good > thing. > > I'm not against an offloading solution if it can solve issues without > impacting the other printk use cases. I'm currently only focusing on > this solution which you are fighting me against. Oh yeah, sure. It might actually be pretty simple to combine into your solution. For example, can't we just always make sure that there's at least one sleepable context which participates in your pingpongs, which only kicks in when a particular context is trapped too long? Thanks. -- tejun -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-01-10 19:34 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 280+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2018-01-10 13:24 [PATCH v5 0/2] printk: Console owner and waiter logic cleanup Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 13:24 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 13:24 ` [PATCH v5 1/2] printk: Add console owner and waiter logic to load balance console writes Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 13:24 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 16:50 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 16:50 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 16:54 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 16:54 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 17:11 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 17:11 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 19:13 ` Rasmus Villemoes 2018-01-17 19:13 ` Rasmus Villemoes 2018-01-17 19:33 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 19:33 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-19 9:51 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-19 9:51 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-18 22:03 ` Pavel Machek 2018-01-18 22:03 ` Pavel Machek 2018-01-19 0:20 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-19 0:20 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 2:19 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-17 2:19 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-17 4:54 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-17 4:54 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-17 7:34 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-17 7:34 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-17 12:04 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-17 12:04 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-18 1:53 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-18 1:53 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-18 1:57 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-18 1:57 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-18 2:19 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-18 2:19 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-18 4:01 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-18 4:01 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-18 15:21 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-18 15:21 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-19 2:37 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-19 2:37 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-19 3:27 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-19 3:27 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-22 2:31 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-22 2:31 ` Byungchul Park 2018-01-10 13:24 ` [PATCH v5 2/2] printk: Hide console waiter logic into helpers Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 13:24 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 17:52 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 17:52 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-11 12:03 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-11 12:03 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-12 15:37 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 15:37 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 16:08 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-12 16:08 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-12 16:36 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 16:36 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-15 16:08 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 16:08 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 5:05 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 5:05 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-10 14:05 ` [PATCH v5 0/2] printk: Console owner and waiter logic cleanup Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 14:05 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 16:29 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 16:29 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-10 17:02 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 17:02 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:21 ` Peter Zijlstra 2018-01-10 18:21 ` Peter Zijlstra 2018-01-10 18:30 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:30 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2018-01-10 18:41 ` Peter Zijlstra 2018-01-10 19:05 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 19:05 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-11 5:15 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 5:15 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-10 18:22 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:22 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:36 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:36 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:40 ` Mathieu Desnoyers 2018-01-10 18:40 ` Mathieu Desnoyers 2018-01-11 7:36 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 7:36 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 11:24 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-11 11:24 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-11 13:19 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 13:19 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-24 9:36 ` Peter Zijlstra 2018-01-24 9:36 ` Peter Zijlstra 2018-01-24 18:46 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-24 18:46 ` Tejun Heo 2018-05-09 8:58 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-05-09 8:58 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-10 18:54 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:54 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-11 5:10 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 5:10 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-10 18:05 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:05 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:12 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:12 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:14 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:14 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:45 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:45 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:41 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:41 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 18:57 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 18:57 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 19:17 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 19:17 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 19:34 ` Tejun Heo [this message] 2018-01-10 19:34 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 19:44 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 19:44 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-10 22:44 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-10 22:44 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-11 5:35 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 5:35 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 4:58 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 4:58 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 9:34 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-11 9:34 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-11 10:38 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 10:38 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-11 11:50 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-11 11:50 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-11 16:29 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-11 16:29 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 1:30 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 1:30 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 2:55 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 2:55 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 4:20 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 4:20 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-16 19:44 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-16 19:44 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-17 9:12 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-17 9:12 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-17 15:15 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-17 15:15 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-17 17:12 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 17:12 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 18:42 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 18:42 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-19 18:20 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-19 18:20 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-20 7:14 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-20 7:14 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-20 15:49 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-20 15:49 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-21 14:15 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-21 14:15 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-21 21:04 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-21 21:04 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-22 8:56 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-22 8:56 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-22 10:28 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-22 10:28 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-22 10:36 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-22 10:36 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 6:40 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 6:40 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 7:05 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 7:05 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 7:31 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 7:31 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 14:56 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-23 14:56 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-23 15:21 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 15:21 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 15:41 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-23 15:41 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-23 15:43 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-23 15:43 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-23 16:12 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 16:12 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 16:13 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-23 16:13 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-23 17:21 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-23 17:21 ` Tejun Heo 2018-04-23 5:35 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-04-23 5:35 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 16:01 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 16:01 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 16:24 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-23 16:24 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-24 2:11 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-24 2:11 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-24 2:52 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-24 2:52 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-24 4:44 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-24 4:44 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-23 17:22 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-23 17:22 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-20 12:19 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-20 12:19 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-20 14:51 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-20 14:51 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 20:05 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-17 20:05 ` Tejun Heo 2018-01-18 5:43 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-18 5:43 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-18 11:51 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-18 11:51 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-18 5:42 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-18 5:42 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-12 3:12 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-12 3:12 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-12 2:56 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-12 2:56 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-12 3:21 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 3:21 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 10:05 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-12 10:05 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-12 12:21 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 12:21 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-12 12:55 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-12 12:55 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-13 7:31 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-13 7:31 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-15 8:51 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 8:51 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 9:48 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-15 9:48 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 5:16 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 5:16 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 9:08 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 9:08 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 12:08 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-15 12:08 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-16 4:51 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 4:51 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-13 7:28 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-13 7:28 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-15 10:17 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 10:17 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 11:50 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 11:50 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 6:10 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 6:10 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 9:36 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 9:36 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 10:10 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 10:10 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 16:06 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-16 16:06 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-16 5:23 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 5:23 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-15 12:06 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-15 12:06 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-15 14:45 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-15 14:45 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 2:23 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 2:23 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 4:47 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 4:47 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 10:19 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 10:19 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-17 2:24 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-17 2:24 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 15:45 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-16 15:45 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 2:18 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-17 2:18 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-17 13:04 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-17 13:04 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-17 15:24 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-17 15:24 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-18 4:31 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-18 4:31 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-18 15:22 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-18 15:22 ` Steven Rostedt 2018-01-16 10:13 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-16 10:13 ` Petr Mladek 2018-01-17 6:29 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-17 6:29 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 1:46 ` Sergey Senozhatsky 2018-01-16 1:46 ` Sergey Senozhatsky
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