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From: Sudeep Holla <sudeep.holla@arm.com>
To: Lina Iyer <ilina@codeaurora.org>
Cc: Lorenzo Pieralisi <lorenzo.pieralisi@arm.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@linaro.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Linux PM <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Kevin Hilman <khilman@kernel.org>,
	Lina Iyer <lina.iyer@linaro.org>,
	Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org>,
	Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@linaro.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@kernel.org>, Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@arm.com>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
	Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	linux-arm-msm <linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Sudeep
Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 09/26] kernel/cpu_pm: Manage runtime PM in the idle path for CPUs
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:58:44 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180809095844.GA3444@e107155-lin> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180808180248.GC27850@codeaurora.org>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 12:02:48PM -0600, Lina Iyer wrote:

[...]

> I will not speak to any comparison of benchmarks between OSI and PC.
> AFAIK, there are no platforms supporting both.
>

That's the fundamental issue here. So we have never ever done a proper
comparison.

> But, the OSI feature is critical for QCOM mobile platforms. The
> last man activities during cpuidle save quite a lot of power. Powering
> off the clocks, busses, regulators and even the oscillator is very
> important to have a reasonable battery life when using the phone.
> Platform coordinated approach falls quite short of the needs of a
> powerful processor with a desired battery efficiency.
>

As mentioned above, without the actual comparison it's hard to justify
that. While there are corner cases where OSI is able to make better
judgement, may be we can add ways to deal with that in the firmware
with PC mode, have we explored that before adding complexity to the OSPM ?
Since the firmware complexity with OSI remains same as PC mode, isn't it
worth checking if the corner case we are talking here can be handled in
the firmware.

--
Regards,
Sudeep

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Sudeep Holla <sudeep.holla@arm.com>
To: Lina Iyer <ilina@codeaurora.org>
Cc: Lorenzo Pieralisi <lorenzo.pieralisi@arm.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@linaro.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Linux PM <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Kevin Hilman <khilman@kernel.org>,
	Lina Iyer <lina.iyer@linaro.org>,
	Rob Herring <robh+dt@kernel.org>,
	Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@linaro.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@kernel.org>, Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@arm.com>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert+renesas@glider.be>,
	Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	linux-arm-msm <linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Sudeep Holla <sudeep.holla@arm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 09/26] kernel/cpu_pm: Manage runtime PM in the idle path for CPUs
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:58:44 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180809095844.GA3444@e107155-lin> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180808180248.GC27850@codeaurora.org>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 12:02:48PM -0600, Lina Iyer wrote:

[...]

> I will not speak to any comparison of benchmarks between OSI and PC.
> AFAIK, there are no platforms supporting both.
>

That's the fundamental issue here. So we have never ever done a proper
comparison.

> But, the OSI feature is critical for QCOM mobile platforms. The
> last man activities during cpuidle save quite a lot of power. Powering
> off the clocks, busses, regulators and even the oscillator is very
> important to have a reasonable battery life when using the phone.
> Platform coordinated approach falls quite short of the needs of a
> powerful processor with a desired battery efficiency.
>

As mentioned above, without the actual comparison it's hard to justify
that. While there are corner cases where OSI is able to make better
judgement, may be we can add ways to deal with that in the firmware
with PC mode, have we explored that before adding complexity to the OSPM ?
Since the firmware complexity with OSI remains same as PC mode, isn't it
worth checking if the corner case we are talking here can be handled in
the firmware.

--
Regards,
Sudeep

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: sudeep.holla@arm.com (Sudeep Holla)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [PATCH v8 09/26] kernel/cpu_pm: Manage runtime PM in the idle path for CPUs
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:58:44 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180809095844.GA3444@e107155-lin> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180808180248.GC27850@codeaurora.org>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 12:02:48PM -0600, Lina Iyer wrote:

[...]

> I will not speak to any comparison of benchmarks between OSI and PC.
> AFAIK, there are no platforms supporting both.
>

That's the fundamental issue here. So we have never ever done a proper
comparison.

> But, the OSI feature is critical for QCOM mobile platforms. The
> last man activities during cpuidle save quite a lot of power. Powering
> off the clocks, busses, regulators and even the oscillator is very
> important to have a reasonable battery life when using the phone.
> Platform coordinated approach falls quite short of the needs of a
> powerful processor with a desired battery efficiency.
>

As mentioned above, without the actual comparison it's hard to justify
that. While there are corner cases where OSI is able to make better
judgement, may be we can add ways to deal with that in the firmware
with PC mode, have we explored that before adding complexity to the OSPM ?
Since the firmware complexity with OSI remains same as PC mode, isn't it
worth checking if the corner case we are talking here can be handled in
the firmware.

--
Regards,
Sudeep

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-08-09  9:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 165+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-20 17:22 [PATCH v8 00/26] PM / Domains: Support hierarchical CPU arrangement (PSCI/ARM) Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 01/26] PM / Domains: Don't treat zero found compatible idle states as an error Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 02/26] PM / Domains: Deal with multiple states but no governor in genpd Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 03/26] PM / Domains: Add generic data pointer to genpd_power_state struct Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-24 21:09   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-06-24 21:09     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-06-25  8:34     ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-25  8:34       ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 04/26] PM / Domains: Add support for CPU devices to genpd Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-19 10:25   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:25     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-03 11:43     ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-03 11:43       ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-06  9:36       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-06  9:36         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-24  6:47         ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-24  6:47           ` Ulf Hansson
2018-09-14  9:26           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14  9:26             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 05/26] PM / Domains: Add helper functions to attach/detach CPUs to/from genpd Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-19 10:22   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:22     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-03 11:44     ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-03 11:44       ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 06/26] timer: Export next wakeup time of a CPU Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-19 10:15   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:15     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 07/26] PM / Domains: Add genpd governor for CPUs Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-19 10:32   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:32     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-26  9:14     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-26  9:14       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-03 14:28       ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-03 14:28         ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-03 14:28         ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-06  9:20         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-06  9:20           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-06  9:20           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-09 15:39           ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-09 15:39             ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-09 15:39             ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-24  9:26             ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-24  9:26               ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-24  9:26               ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-24 10:38               ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-24 10:38                 ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-24 10:38                 ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-30 13:36                 ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-30 13:36                   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-30 13:36                   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-09-13 15:37                   ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-13 15:37                     ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-13 15:37                     ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-14  9:50             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14  9:50               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14  9:50               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14 10:44               ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-14 10:44                 ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-14 10:44                 ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-14 11:34                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14 11:34                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14 11:34                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-09-14 12:30                   ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-14 12:30                     ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-09-14 12:30                     ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-24  8:29           ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-24  8:29             ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-24  8:29             ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 08/26] PM / Domains: Extend genpd CPU governor to cope with QoS constraints Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-19 10:35   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:35     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-03 11:42     ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-03 11:42       ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 09/26] kernel/cpu_pm: Manage runtime PM in the idle path for CPUs Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-18 10:11   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-18 10:11     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:12     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:12       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:39       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-19 10:39         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-03 11:42         ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-03 11:42           ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-06  9:37           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-06  9:37             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-08 10:56             ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-08 10:56               ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-08 18:02               ` Lina Iyer
2018-08-08 18:02                 ` Lina Iyer
2018-08-09  8:16                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-09  8:16                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-09  8:16                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-10 20:36                   ` Lina Iyer
2018-08-10 20:36                     ` Lina Iyer
2018-08-12  9:53                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-12  9:53                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-12  9:53                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-08-09  9:58                 ` Sudeep Holla [this message]
2018-08-09  9:58                   ` Sudeep Holla
2018-08-09  9:58                   ` Sudeep Holla
2018-08-09 10:25                 ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-09 10:25                   ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-10 20:18                   ` Lina Iyer
2018-08-10 20:18                     ` Lina Iyer
2018-08-15 10:44                     ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-15 10:44                       ` Lorenzo Pieralisi
2018-08-24 12:24                       ` Ulf Hansson
2018-08-24 12:24                         ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 10/26] dt: psci: Update DT bindings to support hierarchical PSCI states Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 11/26] of: base: Add of_get_cpu_state_node() to get idle states for a CPU node Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 12/26] cpuidle: dt: Support hierarchical CPU idle states Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 13/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Move psci to separate directory Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 14/26] MAINTAINERS: Update files for PSCI Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 15/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Split psci_dt_cpu_init_idle() Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 16/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Support hierarchical CPU idle states Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 17/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Simplify error path of psci_dt_init() Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 18/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Announce support for OS initiated suspend mode Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 19/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Prepare to use " Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 20/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Share a few internal PSCI functions Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 21/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Add support for PM domains using genpd Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 22/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Introduce psci_dt_topology_init() Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 23/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Try to attach CPU devices to their PM domains Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 24/26] drivers: firmware: psci: Deal with CPU hotplug when using OSI mode Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-11-19 19:50   ` Raju P L S S S N
2018-11-19 19:50     ` Raju P L S S S N
2018-11-20  9:50     ` Ulf Hansson
2018-11-20  9:50       ` Ulf Hansson
2018-11-20 10:47       ` Raju P L S S S N
2018-11-20 10:47         ` Raju P L S S S N
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 25/26] arm64: kernel: Respect the hierarchical CPU topology in DT for PSCI Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22 ` [PATCH v8 26/26] arm64: dts: Convert to the hierarchical CPU topology layout for MSM8916 Ulf Hansson
2018-06-20 17:22   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-03  5:44 ` [PATCH v8 00/26] PM / Domains: Support hierarchical CPU arrangement (PSCI/ARM) Ulf Hansson
2018-07-03  5:44   ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-03  7:54   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-03  7:54     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2018-07-09 11:42     ` Ulf Hansson
2018-07-09 11:42       ` Ulf Hansson

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