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From: Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org>
To: Bart Van Assche <bvanassche@acm.org>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>, Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	Paolo Valente <paolo.valente@linaro.org>,
	Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>,
	linux-block <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mmc <linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@linaro.org>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@intel.com>,
	Artem Bityutskiy <dedekind1@gmail.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Damien Le Moal <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>,
	Johannes Thumshirn <jthumshirn@suse.de>,
	Oleksandr Natalenko <oleksandr@natalenko.name>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] block: BFQ default for single queue devices
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:01:57 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181017160157.GE24097@sirena.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d1d082f3-d681-02ed-5bbe-5eb011d6b0da@acm.org>

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On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 07:48:33AM -0700, Bart Van Assche wrote:
> On 10/17/18 3:05 AM, Jan Kara wrote:

> > Well, the problem with this is that big distro people really don't care
> > much because they already use udev for tuning the IO scheduler. So whatever
> > defaults the kernel is going to pick likely won't be seen by distro
> > customers. Embedded people seem to be driving this effort because they
> > either don't run udev or they feel not all their teams building new
> > products have enough expertise to come up with a proper set of rules...

> What's missing in this discussion is a definition of "embedded system". Is
> that a system like a streaming player for TV channels that neither has a
> keyboard nor a display or a system that can run multiple apps simultaneously
> like a smartphone? I think the difference matters because some embedded
> devices hardly do any background I/O nor load any executable code from
> storage after boot. So at least for some embedded devices the problem
> discussed in this e-mail thread does not exist.

It's a combination of things - smartphones are definitely part of the
target audience but other things can be affected, I'd guess your
streaming TV player example can have issues if it's got local storage
and downloads things in the background for example.  There's definitely
systems that never really use storage once they're booted but there's
also things that move data around and/or have interactive apps.  Even
with some of the things that don't really use storage at runtime it can
be important to help cut down boot times.

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mark Brown <broonie@kernel.org>
To: Bart Van Assche <bvanassche@acm.org>
Cc: Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@linaro.org>,
	Paolo Valente <paolo.valente@linaro.org>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	Artem Bityutskiy <dedekind1@gmail.com>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	linux-mmc <linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org>,
	Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@intel.com>,
	Oleksandr Natalenko <oleksandr@natalenko.name>,
	linux-block <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Johannes Thumshirn <jthumshirn@suse.de>,
	Damien Le Moal <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>,
	Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] block: BFQ default for single queue devices
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 17:01:57 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20181017160157.GE24097@sirena.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d1d082f3-d681-02ed-5bbe-5eb011d6b0da@acm.org>


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On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 07:48:33AM -0700, Bart Van Assche wrote:
> On 10/17/18 3:05 AM, Jan Kara wrote:

> > Well, the problem with this is that big distro people really don't care
> > much because they already use udev for tuning the IO scheduler. So whatever
> > defaults the kernel is going to pick likely won't be seen by distro
> > customers. Embedded people seem to be driving this effort because they
> > either don't run udev or they feel not all their teams building new
> > products have enough expertise to come up with a proper set of rules...

> What's missing in this discussion is a definition of "embedded system". Is
> that a system like a streaming player for TV channels that neither has a
> keyboard nor a display or a system that can run multiple apps simultaneously
> like a smartphone? I think the difference matters because some embedded
> devices hardly do any background I/O nor load any executable code from
> storage after boot. So at least for some embedded devices the problem
> discussed in this e-mail thread does not exist.

It's a combination of things - smartphones are definitely part of the
target audience but other things can be affected, I'd guess your
streaming TV player example can have issues if it's got local storage
and downloads things in the background for example.  There's definitely
systems that never really use storage once they're booted but there's
also things that move data around and/or have interactive apps.  Even
with some of the things that don't really use storage at runtime it can
be important to help cut down boot times.

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-10-17 16:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-10-15 14:10 [PATCH v2] block: BFQ default for single queue devices Linus Walleij
2018-10-15 14:10 ` Linus Walleij
2018-10-15 14:22 ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 14:22   ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 14:22   ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 14:32 ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2018-10-15 14:32   ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2018-10-19  8:33   ` Linus Walleij
2018-10-19  8:33     ` Linus Walleij
2018-10-19  9:26     ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2018-10-19  9:26       ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2018-10-15 15:02 ` Bart Van Assche
2018-10-15 15:02   ` Bart Van Assche
2018-10-15 18:34   ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 18:34     ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 18:34     ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-17  5:18     ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-17  5:18       ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-17  5:18       ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-16 16:14   ` Federico Motta
2018-10-16 16:14     ` Federico Motta
2018-10-16 16:26     ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-16 16:26       ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-16 16:26       ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 15:39 ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-15 15:39   ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-15 18:26   ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 18:26     ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 18:26     ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 19:26     ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-15 19:26       ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-15 19:44       ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 19:44         ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-15 19:44         ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-16 17:35         ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-16 17:35           ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-17 10:05           ` Jan Kara
2018-10-17 10:05             ` Jan Kara
2018-10-17 14:48             ` Bart Van Assche
2018-10-17 14:48               ` Bart Van Assche
2018-10-17 14:59               ` Bryan Gurney
2018-10-17 14:59                 ` Bryan Gurney
2018-10-19  8:42                 ` Linus Walleij
2018-10-19  8:42                   ` Linus Walleij
2018-10-19 13:36                   ` Bryan Gurney
2018-10-19 13:36                     ` Bryan Gurney
2018-10-19 13:44                     ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-19 13:44                       ` Johannes Thumshirn
2018-10-19 14:16                       ` Bryan Gurney
2018-10-19 14:16                         ` Bryan Gurney
2018-10-22  8:12                   ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-22  8:12                     ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-17 16:01               ` Mark Brown [this message]
2018-10-17 16:01                 ` Mark Brown
2018-10-17 16:29             ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-17 16:29               ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-18  7:21               ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18  7:21                 ` Jan Kara
2018-10-18 14:35                 ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-18 14:35                   ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-19  8:22                   ` Pavel Machek
2018-10-19  8:22                     ` Pavel Machek
2018-10-22  8:08                     ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-22  8:08                       ` Jens Axboe
2018-11-02 10:40           ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2018-11-02 10:40             ` Oleksandr Natalenko
2018-10-19 10:59     ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-19 10:59       ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-19 10:59       ` Paolo Valente
2018-10-22  8:21       ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-22  8:21         ` Jens Axboe
2018-10-16 13:42 ` Ulf Hansson
2018-10-16 13:42   ` Ulf Hansson

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