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From: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
To: lorenzo@google.com
Cc: nhorman@tuxdriver.com, zenczykowski@gmail.com, maze@google.com,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, stranche@codeaurora.org,
	subashab@codeaurora.org, edumazet@google.com,
	linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] net: introduce ip_local_unbindable_ports sysctl
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:52:08 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20191219.095208.349922153806345978.davem@davemloft.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKD1Yr2wyWbwCGP=BNqAfsGu9cjgjD12-ePjs648Or-FjqHyBw@mail.gmail.com>

From: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:02:32 +0900

> But in any case, the result would be more complicated to use and
> maintain, and it would likely also be less realistic, such that a
> sophisticated conformance test might still find that the port was
> actually bound. Other users of the kernel wouldn't get to use this
> sysctl, and the userspace code can't be easily reused in other
> open-source projects, so the community gets nothing useful. That
> doesn't seem great.

The same argument can be made about kernel changes that are only
needed by Android because they refuse to use a userspace solution that
frankly can do the job.

Can you see why these Android special case discussions are so
frustrating for kernel devs?

And using the "we'll just have a local kernel change in the Android
kernel" threat as leverage in the discussion... yeah very unpleasant
indeed.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
To: lorenzo@google.com
Cc: nhorman@tuxdriver.com, zenczykowski@gmail.com, maze@google.com,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, stranche@codeaurora.org,
	subashab@codeaurora.org, edumazet@google.com,
	linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] net: introduce ip_local_unbindable_ports sysctl
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 17:52:08 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20191219.095208.349922153806345978.davem@davemloft.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKD1Yr2wyWbwCGP=BNqAfsGu9cjgjD12-ePjs648Or-FjqHyBw@mail.gmail.com>

From: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 23:02:32 +0900

> But in any case, the result would be more complicated to use and
> maintain, and it would likely also be less realistic, such that a
> sophisticated conformance test might still find that the port was
> actually bound. Other users of the kernel wouldn't get to use this
> sysctl, and the userspace code can't be easily reused in other
> open-source projects, so the community gets nothing useful. That
> doesn't seem great.

The same argument can be made about kernel changes that are only
needed by Android because they refuse to use a userspace solution that
frankly can do the job.

Can you see why these Android special case discussions are so
frustrating for kernel devs?

And using the "we'll just have a local kernel change in the Android
kernel" threat as leverage in the discussion... yeah very unpleasant
indeed.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-12-19 17:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-11-27  0:13 [PATCH] net: introduce ip_local_unbindable_ports sysctl Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-11-27  0:13 ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-11-27  2:10 ` subashab
2019-11-27 13:14 ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2019-11-27 13:14   ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2019-11-27 20:50   ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-11-27 20:50     ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-11-27 22:33     ` David Miller
2019-11-27 22:33       ` David Miller
2019-11-27 23:00     ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2019-11-27 23:00       ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2019-11-29 20:00       ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-11-29 20:00         ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-04 18:27         ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2019-12-04 18:27           ` Marcelo Ricardo Leitner
2019-12-09 22:43           ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-09 22:43             ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-09 22:45             ` [PATCH v2] " Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-09 22:45               ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-09 23:42               ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-09 23:42                 ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-10  0:02                 ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-10  0:02                   ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-10  0:18                   ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-10  0:18                     ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-10  7:00                     ` subashab
2019-12-10 11:46                     ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-10 11:46                       ` Maciej Żenczykowski
2019-12-10 17:31                       ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-10 17:31                         ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-13  0:16                         ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-13  0:16                           ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-13  0:47                           ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-13  0:47                             ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-13  0:57                             ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-13  0:57                               ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-13  1:53                               ` subashab
2019-12-13  1:53                                 ` subashab
2019-12-13  2:04                                 ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-13  2:04                                   ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-10 19:28                       ` David Miller
2019-12-10 19:28                         ` David Miller
     [not found]                     ` <0101016eee9bf9b5-f5615781-f0a6-41c4-8e9d-ed694eccf07c-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com>
2019-12-10 17:12                       ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-10 17:12                         ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-12-10 18:12                         ` subashab
2019-12-13  0:25       ` [PATCH] " Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-13  0:25         ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-13 11:49 ` Neil Horman
2019-12-13 11:49   ` Neil Horman
2019-12-19  9:35   ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-19  9:35     ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-19 13:17     ` Neil Horman
2019-12-19 13:17       ` Neil Horman
2019-12-19 14:02       ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-19 14:02         ` Lorenzo Colitti
2019-12-19 16:57         ` Neil Horman
2019-12-19 16:57           ` Neil Horman
2019-12-19 17:52         ` David Miller [this message]
2019-12-19 17:52           ` David Miller

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