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From: Javier Gonzalez <javier@javigon.com>
To: Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
Cc: david.fugate@linux.intel.com, Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	Kanchan Joshi <joshi.k@samsung.com>,
	"kbusch@kernel.org" <kbusch@kernel.org>,
	"Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com" <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>,
	"sagi@grimberg.me" <sagi@grimberg.me>,
	"linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org" <linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"johannes.thumshirn@wdc.com" <johannes.thumshirn@wdc.com>,
	Nitesh Shetty <nj.shetty@samsung.com>,
	SelvaKumar S <selvakuma.s1@samsung.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] nvme: add emulation for zone-append
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:37:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200820063719.q6wftb23op45wigk@MacBook-Pro.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9fa64efe-8477-5d33-20ed-9619a9fe8d70@kernel.dk>

On 19.08.2020 13:25, Jens Axboe wrote:
>On 8/19/20 12:11 PM, David Fugate wrote:
>> On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 07:12 +0000, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:59:36AM +0530, Kanchan Joshi wrote:
>>>> If drive does not support zone-append natively, enable emulation
>>>> using
>>>> regular write.
>>>> Make emulated zone-append cmd write-lock the zone, preventing
>>>> concurrent append/write on the same zone.
>>>
>>> I really don't think we should add this.  ZNS and the Linux support
>>> were all designed with Zone Append in mind, and then your company did
>>> the nastiest possible move violating the normal NVMe procedures to
>>> make
>>> it optional.  But that doesn't change the fact the Linux should keep
>>> requiring it, especially with the amount of code added here and how
>>> it
>>> hooks in the fast path.
>>
>> Intel does not support making *optional* NVMe spec features *required*
>> by the NVMe driver.
>
>It's not required, the driver will function quite fine without it. If you
>want to use ZNS it's required. The Linux driver thankfully doesn't need
>any vendor to sign off on what it can or cannot do, or what features
>are acceptable.
>
>> It's forgivable WDC's accepted contribution didn't work with other
>> vendors' devices choosing not to implement the optional Zone Append,
>> but it's not OK to reject contributions remedying this.  Provided
>> there's no glaring technical issues, Samsung's contribution should be
>> accepted to maintain both spec compliance as well as vendor neutrality.
>
>It's *always* ok to reject contributions, if those contributions cause
>maintainability issues, unacceptable slowdowns, or whatever other issue
>that the maintainers of said driver don't want to deal with. Any
>contribution should be judged on merit, not based on political decisions
>or opinions. Obviously this thread reeks of it.
>

I'll reply here, where the discussion diverges from this particular
patch.

We will stop pushing for this emulation. We have a couple of SSDs where
we disabled Append, we implemented support for them, and we wanted to
push the changes upstream. That's it. This is no politics not a
conspiracy against the current ZNS spec. We spent a lot of time working
on this spec and are actually doing a fair amount of work to support
Append other places in the stack. In any case, the fuzz stops here.

Javier

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Javier Gonzalez <javier@javigon.com>
To: Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
Cc: "Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com" <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>,
	SelvaKumar S <selvakuma.s1@samsung.com>,
	"sagi@grimberg.me" <sagi@grimberg.me>,
	Kanchan Joshi <joshi.k@samsung.com>,
	"johannes.thumshirn@wdc.com" <johannes.thumshirn@wdc.com>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org" <linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org>,
	Nitesh Shetty <nj.shetty@samsung.com>,
	david.fugate@linux.intel.com,
	"kbusch@kernel.org" <kbusch@kernel.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] nvme: add emulation for zone-append
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:37:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200820063719.q6wftb23op45wigk@MacBook-Pro.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9fa64efe-8477-5d33-20ed-9619a9fe8d70@kernel.dk>

On 19.08.2020 13:25, Jens Axboe wrote:
>On 8/19/20 12:11 PM, David Fugate wrote:
>> On Tue, 2020-08-18 at 07:12 +0000, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:59:36AM +0530, Kanchan Joshi wrote:
>>>> If drive does not support zone-append natively, enable emulation
>>>> using
>>>> regular write.
>>>> Make emulated zone-append cmd write-lock the zone, preventing
>>>> concurrent append/write on the same zone.
>>>
>>> I really don't think we should add this.  ZNS and the Linux support
>>> were all designed with Zone Append in mind, and then your company did
>>> the nastiest possible move violating the normal NVMe procedures to
>>> make
>>> it optional.  But that doesn't change the fact the Linux should keep
>>> requiring it, especially with the amount of code added here and how
>>> it
>>> hooks in the fast path.
>>
>> Intel does not support making *optional* NVMe spec features *required*
>> by the NVMe driver.
>
>It's not required, the driver will function quite fine without it. If you
>want to use ZNS it's required. The Linux driver thankfully doesn't need
>any vendor to sign off on what it can or cannot do, or what features
>are acceptable.
>
>> It's forgivable WDC's accepted contribution didn't work with other
>> vendors' devices choosing not to implement the optional Zone Append,
>> but it's not OK to reject contributions remedying this.  Provided
>> there's no glaring technical issues, Samsung's contribution should be
>> accepted to maintain both spec compliance as well as vendor neutrality.
>
>It's *always* ok to reject contributions, if those contributions cause
>maintainability issues, unacceptable slowdowns, or whatever other issue
>that the maintainers of said driver don't want to deal with. Any
>contribution should be judged on merit, not based on political decisions
>or opinions. Obviously this thread reeks of it.
>

I'll reply here, where the discussion diverges from this particular
patch.

We will stop pushing for this emulation. We have a couple of SSDs where
we disabled Append, we implemented support for them, and we wanted to
push the changes upstream. That's it. This is no politics not a
conspiracy against the current ZNS spec. We spent a lot of time working
on this spec and are actually doing a fair amount of work to support
Append other places in the stack. In any case, the fuzz stops here.

Javier

_______________________________________________
Linux-nvme mailing list
Linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvme

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-08-20  6:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <CGME20200818053247epcas5p262c5fd7e207dfa5145011c4329cf239d@epcas5p2.samsung.com>
2020-08-18  5:29 ` [PATCH 0/2] enable append-emulation for ZNS Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-18  5:29   ` Kanchan Joshi
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200818053252epcas5p4ee61d64bba5f6a131105e40330984f5e@epcas5p4.samsung.com>
2020-08-18  5:29     ` [PATCH 1/2] nvme: set io-scheduler requirement " Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-18  5:29       ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-18  7:11       ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-18  7:11         ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-19  9:26         ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-19  9:26           ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-19  9:38           ` Damien Le Moal
2020-08-19  9:38             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-08-19 10:31             ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-19 10:31               ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-19 11:17               ` Damien Le Moal
2020-08-19 11:17                 ` Damien Le Moal
2020-09-07  7:00                 ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-09-07  7:00                   ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-09-07  8:22                   ` Damien Le Moal
2020-09-07  8:22                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-09-07 11:23                     ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-09-07 11:23                       ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-09-07 11:37                       ` Damien Le Moal
2020-09-07 11:37                         ` Damien Le Moal
2020-09-07 11:54                         ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-09-07 11:54                           ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-09-07 12:53                           ` Damien Le Moal
2020-09-07 12:53                             ` Damien Le Moal
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200818053256epcas5p46d0b66b3702192eb6617c8bba334c15f@epcas5p4.samsung.com>
2020-08-18  5:29     ` [PATCH 2/2] nvme: add emulation for zone-append Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-18  5:29       ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-18  7:12       ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-18  7:12         ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-18  9:50         ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18  9:50           ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18 10:51           ` Matias Bjørling
2020-08-18 10:51             ` Matias Bjørling
2020-08-18 18:11             ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18 18:11               ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18 15:50           ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-18 15:50             ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-18 18:04             ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18 18:04               ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-19  7:40               ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-19  7:40                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-19  8:33                 ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-19  8:33                   ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-19  9:14                   ` Damien Le Moal
2020-08-19  9:14                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-08-19 10:43                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-19 10:43                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-20  6:45                       ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-20  6:45                         ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-19 10:49                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-19 10:49                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-18 16:58           ` Keith Busch
2020-08-18 16:58             ` Keith Busch
2020-08-18 17:29             ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18 17:29               ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18 17:39               ` Keith Busch
2020-08-18 17:39                 ` Keith Busch
2020-08-18 18:13                 ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-18 18:13                   ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-19 19:11         ` David Fugate
2020-08-19 19:11           ` David Fugate
2020-08-19 19:25           ` Jens Axboe
2020-08-19 19:25             ` Jens Axboe
2020-08-19 21:54             ` David Fugate
2020-08-19 21:54               ` David Fugate
2020-08-19 22:10               ` Keith Busch
2020-08-19 22:10                 ` Keith Busch
2020-08-19 23:43                 ` David Fugate
2020-08-19 23:43                   ` David Fugate
2020-08-20  3:45                   ` Keith Busch
2020-08-20  3:45                     ` Keith Busch
2020-08-20 23:26                     ` David Fugate
2020-08-20 23:26                       ` David Fugate
2020-08-20  5:51                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-20  5:51                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-20  6:37             ` Javier Gonzalez [this message]
2020-08-20  6:37               ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-20  6:52               ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-20  6:52                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-20  8:03                 ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-20  8:03                   ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-19 21:42           ` Keith Busch
2020-08-19 21:42             ` Keith Busch
2020-08-20  7:37             ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-20  7:37               ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-20  8:14               ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-20  8:14                 ` Javier Gonzalez
2020-08-20  5:29           ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-08-20  5:29             ` Christoph Hellwig

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