From: Pekka Paalanen <ppaalanen@gmail.com> To: Harry Wentland <harry.wentland@amd.com> Cc: Deepak.Sharma@amd.com, Krunoslav.Kovac@amd.com, mcasas@google.com, Shashank.Sharma@amd.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, Shirish.S@amd.com, Sebastian Wick <sebastian@sebastianwick.net>, Uma Shankar <uma.shankar@intel.com>, hersenxs.wu@amd.com, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, laurentiu.palcu@oss.nxp.com, Bhawanpreet.Lakha@amd.com, Nicholas.Kazlauskas@amd.com, Vitaly.Prosyak@amd.com Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] drm/color: Add RGB Color encodings Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 10:56:25 +0300 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20210519105625.01e99f41@eldfell> (raw) In-Reply-To: <812996ec-13f0-2440-c3d0-efb21fd877e5@amd.com> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3925 bytes --] On Tue, 18 May 2021 10:32:48 -0400 Harry Wentland <harry.wentland@amd.com> wrote: > On 2021-05-17 4:34 a.m., Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > On Fri, 14 May 2021 17:04:51 -0400 > > Harry Wentland <harry.wentland@amd.com> wrote: > > > >> On 2021-04-30 8:53 p.m., Sebastian Wick wrote: > >>> On 2021-04-26 20:56, Harry Wentland wrote: > > > > ... > > > >>>> Another reason I'm proposing to define the color space (and gamma) of > >>>> a plane is to make this explicit. Up until the color space and gamma > >>>> of a plane or framebuffer are not well defined, which leads to drivers > >>>> assuming the color space and gamma of a buffer (for blending and other > >>>> purposes) and might lead to sub-optimal outcomes. > >>> > >>> Blending only is "correct" with linear light so that property of the > >>> color space is important. However, why does the kernel have to be > >>> involved here? As long as user space knows that for correct blending the > >>> data must represent linear light and knows when in the pipeline blending > >>> happens it can make sure that the data at that point in the pipeline > >>> contains linear light. > >>> > >> > >> The only reason the kernel needs to be involved is to take full advantage > >> of the available HW without requiring KMS clients to be aware of > >> the difference in display HW. > > > > Can you explain in more tangible examples, why you think so, please? > > > > Is it because hardware does not fit the KMS UAPI model of the abstract > > pixel pipeline? > > > > I'd wager no HW is designed to meet KMS UAPI, rather KMS UAPI is designed > to abstract HW. Of course, but you are in big trouble in any case if there is a fundamental mismatch. You may have to declare that all existing KMS properties for this stuff will be mutually exclusive with your new properties, so that you can introduce a new generic abstract pipeline in KMS. By mutually exclusive I mean that a driver must advertise only one or the other set of properties and never both. If you want to support userspace that doesn't understand the alternative set, maybe you also need a drm client cap to switch to the alternative set per-drm-client. > > Or is it because you have fixed-function hardware elements that you can > > only make use of when userspace uses an enum-based UAPI? > > > > One example is our degamma on our latest generation HW, where we have > fixed-function "degamma" (rather de-EOTF): > > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/agd5f/linux/-/blob/amd-staging-drm-next/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/display/dc/dcn30/dcn30_dpp.c#L166 Ok. > > I would totally agree that the driver does not want to be analysing LUT > > entries to decipher if it could use a fixed-function element or not. It > > would introduce uncertainty in the UAPI. So fixed-function elements > > would need their own properties, but I don't know if that is feasible > > as generic UAPI or if it should be driver-specific (and so left unused > > by generic userspace). > > > > > For the CRTC LUTs we actually do a linearity check to program the > HW into bypass when the LUT is linear since the KMS LUT definition > doesn't map well onto the LUT definition used by our HW and leads > to rounding errors and failing IGT kms_color tests (if I remember > this correctly). > > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/agd5f/linux/-/blob/amd-staging-drm-next/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/display/amdgpu_dm/amdgpu_dm_color.c#L330 > > Hence the suggestion to define pre-defined TFs right at a KMS level > for usecases where we can assume the display will tonemap the > content. Right. Explaining this would have been a good introduction in your cover letter. Maybe you want to define new KMS properties that shall be mutually exclusive with the existing KMS GAMMA/CTM/DEGAMMA properties and clearly document them as such. Thanks, pq [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Pekka Paalanen <ppaalanen@gmail.com> To: Harry Wentland <harry.wentland@amd.com> Cc: Deepak.Sharma@amd.com, aric.cyr@amd.com, Krunoslav.Kovac@amd.com, mcasas@google.com, Shashank.Sharma@amd.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, Shirish.S@amd.com, "Sebastian Wick" <sebastian@sebastianwick.net>, "Uma Shankar" <uma.shankar@intel.com>, hersenxs.wu@amd.com, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, laurentiu.palcu@oss.nxp.com, Bhawanpreet.Lakha@amd.com, Nicholas.Kazlauskas@amd.com, "Ville Syrjälä" <ville.syrjala@linux.intel.com>, Vitaly.Prosyak@amd.com Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/3] drm/color: Add RGB Color encodings Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 10:56:25 +0300 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20210519105625.01e99f41@eldfell> (raw) In-Reply-To: <812996ec-13f0-2440-c3d0-efb21fd877e5@amd.com> [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3925 bytes --] On Tue, 18 May 2021 10:32:48 -0400 Harry Wentland <harry.wentland@amd.com> wrote: > On 2021-05-17 4:34 a.m., Pekka Paalanen wrote: > > On Fri, 14 May 2021 17:04:51 -0400 > > Harry Wentland <harry.wentland@amd.com> wrote: > > > >> On 2021-04-30 8:53 p.m., Sebastian Wick wrote: > >>> On 2021-04-26 20:56, Harry Wentland wrote: > > > > ... > > > >>>> Another reason I'm proposing to define the color space (and gamma) of > >>>> a plane is to make this explicit. Up until the color space and gamma > >>>> of a plane or framebuffer are not well defined, which leads to drivers > >>>> assuming the color space and gamma of a buffer (for blending and other > >>>> purposes) and might lead to sub-optimal outcomes. > >>> > >>> Blending only is "correct" with linear light so that property of the > >>> color space is important. However, why does the kernel have to be > >>> involved here? As long as user space knows that for correct blending the > >>> data must represent linear light and knows when in the pipeline blending > >>> happens it can make sure that the data at that point in the pipeline > >>> contains linear light. > >>> > >> > >> The only reason the kernel needs to be involved is to take full advantage > >> of the available HW without requiring KMS clients to be aware of > >> the difference in display HW. > > > > Can you explain in more tangible examples, why you think so, please? > > > > Is it because hardware does not fit the KMS UAPI model of the abstract > > pixel pipeline? > > > > I'd wager no HW is designed to meet KMS UAPI, rather KMS UAPI is designed > to abstract HW. Of course, but you are in big trouble in any case if there is a fundamental mismatch. You may have to declare that all existing KMS properties for this stuff will be mutually exclusive with your new properties, so that you can introduce a new generic abstract pipeline in KMS. By mutually exclusive I mean that a driver must advertise only one or the other set of properties and never both. If you want to support userspace that doesn't understand the alternative set, maybe you also need a drm client cap to switch to the alternative set per-drm-client. > > Or is it because you have fixed-function hardware elements that you can > > only make use of when userspace uses an enum-based UAPI? > > > > One example is our degamma on our latest generation HW, where we have > fixed-function "degamma" (rather de-EOTF): > > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/agd5f/linux/-/blob/amd-staging-drm-next/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/display/dc/dcn30/dcn30_dpp.c#L166 Ok. > > I would totally agree that the driver does not want to be analysing LUT > > entries to decipher if it could use a fixed-function element or not. It > > would introduce uncertainty in the UAPI. So fixed-function elements > > would need their own properties, but I don't know if that is feasible > > as generic UAPI or if it should be driver-specific (and so left unused > > by generic userspace). > > > > > For the CRTC LUTs we actually do a linearity check to program the > HW into bypass when the LUT is linear since the KMS LUT definition > doesn't map well onto the LUT definition used by our HW and leads > to rounding errors and failing IGT kms_color tests (if I remember > this correctly). > > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/agd5f/linux/-/blob/amd-staging-drm-next/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/display/amdgpu_dm/amdgpu_dm_color.c#L330 > > Hence the suggestion to define pre-defined TFs right at a KMS level > for usecases where we can assume the display will tonemap the > content. Right. Explaining this would have been a good introduction in your cover letter. Maybe you want to define new KMS properties that shall be mutually exclusive with the existing KMS GAMMA/CTM/DEGAMMA properties and clearly document them as such. Thanks, pq [-- Attachment #1.2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 154 bytes --] _______________________________________________ amd-gfx mailing list amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-05-19 7:56 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-04-26 17:38 [RFC PATCH 0/3] A drm_plane API to support HDR planes Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 17:38 ` Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 17:38 ` [RFC PATCH 1/3] drm/color: Add RGB Color encodings Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 17:38 ` Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 18:07 ` Ville Syrjälä 2021-04-26 18:07 ` Ville Syrjälä 2021-04-26 18:56 ` Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 18:56 ` Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 19:08 ` Ville Syrjälä 2021-04-26 19:08 ` Ville Syrjälä 2021-04-30 9:04 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-04-30 9:04 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-01 0:53 ` Sebastian Wick 2021-05-01 0:53 ` Sebastian Wick 2021-05-14 21:04 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-14 21:04 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-17 8:34 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-17 8:34 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-18 14:32 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-18 14:32 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-19 7:56 ` Pekka Paalanen [this message] 2021-05-19 7:56 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-04-26 17:38 ` [RFC PATCH 2/3] drm/color: Add Color transfer functions for HDR/SDR Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 17:38 ` Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 19:03 ` kernel test robot 2021-04-26 20:27 ` kernel test robot 2021-04-26 20:27 ` [RFC PATCH] drm/color: drm_get_color_transfer_function_name() can be static kernel test robot 2021-04-26 21:29 ` [RFC PATCH 2/3] drm/color: Add Color transfer functions for HDR/SDR kernel test robot 2021-04-26 22:00 ` kernel test robot 2021-04-26 17:38 ` [RFC PATCH 3/3] drm/color: Add sdr boost property Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 17:38 ` Harry Wentland 2021-04-26 20:38 ` kernel test robot 2021-04-26 21:45 ` kernel test robot 2021-04-26 21:45 ` [RFC PATCH] drm/color: drm_plane_create_sdr_white_level_property() can be static kernel test robot 2021-04-27 9:09 ` [RFC PATCH 0/3] A drm_plane API to support HDR planes Daniel Vetter 2021-04-27 9:09 ` Daniel Vetter 2021-04-27 14:50 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-04-27 14:50 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-04-28 7:54 ` Shashank Sharma 2021-04-28 7:54 ` Shashank Sharma 2021-04-30 9:43 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-04-30 9:43 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-04-30 10:39 ` Shashank Sharma 2021-04-30 10:39 ` Shashank Sharma 2021-05-14 21:01 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-14 21:01 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-14 21:05 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-14 21:05 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-17 8:57 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-17 8:57 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-17 16:48 ` Sebastian Wick 2021-05-17 16:48 ` Sebastian Wick 2021-05-17 19:39 ` Vitaly Prosyak 2021-05-17 19:39 ` Vitaly Prosyak 2021-05-18 7:56 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-18 7:56 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-18 14:19 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-18 14:19 ` Harry Wentland 2021-05-18 23:00 ` Sebastian Wick 2021-05-18 23:00 ` Sebastian Wick 2021-05-19 8:53 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-19 8:53 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-19 10:02 ` Pekka Paalanen 2021-05-19 10:02 ` Pekka Paalanen
Reply instructions: You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email using any one of the following methods: * Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client, and reply-to-all from there: mbox Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style * Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to switches of git-send-email(1): git send-email \ --in-reply-to=20210519105625.01e99f41@eldfell \ --to=ppaalanen@gmail.com \ --cc=Bhawanpreet.Lakha@amd.com \ --cc=Deepak.Sharma@amd.com \ --cc=Krunoslav.Kovac@amd.com \ --cc=Nicholas.Kazlauskas@amd.com \ --cc=Shashank.Sharma@amd.com \ --cc=Shirish.S@amd.com \ --cc=Vitaly.Prosyak@amd.com \ --cc=amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org \ --cc=dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org \ --cc=harry.wentland@amd.com \ --cc=hersenxs.wu@amd.com \ --cc=laurentiu.palcu@oss.nxp.com \ --cc=mcasas@google.com \ --cc=sebastian@sebastianwick.net \ --cc=uma.shankar@intel.com \ /path/to/YOUR_REPLY https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html * If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header via mailto: links, try the mailto: linkBe sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes, see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror all data and code used by this external index.