* [dm-devel] Attaching qcow2 images to containers
@ 2022-05-18 6:30 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Hajnoczi @ 2022-05-18 6:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kirill Tkhai
Cc: Kevin Wolf, linux-kernel, dm-devel, qemu-devel, Xie Yongji,
hreitz, sgarzare
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2063 bytes --]
Hi Kirill,
I saw your "[PATCH 0/4] dm: Introduce dm-qcow2 driver to attach QCOW2
files as block device" patch series:
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kernel/YkME5ZS2CpXuNmN6@infradead.org/T/
There has been recent work in vDPA (VIRTIO Data Path Acceleration) to
achieve similar functionality. The qemu-storage-daemon VDUSE export
attaches a virtio-blk device to the host kernel and QEMU's qcow2
implementation can be used:
https://patchew.org/QEMU/20220504074051.90-1-xieyongji@bytedance.com/
A container can then access this virtio-blk device (/dev/vda). Note that
the virtio-blk device is implemented in software using vDPA/VDUSE, there
is no virtio-pci device.
As a quick comparison with a dm-qcow2 target, this approach keeps the
qcow2 code in QEMU userspace and can take advantage of QEMU block layer
features (storage migration/mirroring/backup, snapshots, etc). On the
other hand, it's likely to be more heavyweight because bounce buffers
are required in VDUSE for security reasons, there is a separate
userspace process involved, and there's the virtio_blk.ko driver and an
emulated virtio-blk device involved.
Another similar feature that was recently added to QEMU is the
qemu-storage-daemon FUSE export:
$ qemu-storage-daemon \
--blockdev file,filename=test.img,node-name=drive0 \
--export fuse,node-name=drive0,id=fuse0,mountpoint=/tmp/foo
$ ls -alF /tmp/foo
-r--------. 1 me me 10737418240 May 18 07:22 /tmp/foo
This exports a disk image as a file via FUSE. Programs can access it
like a regular file and qemu-storage-daemon will do the qcow2 I/O on the
underlying file.
I wanted to mention these options for exposing qcow2 disk images to
processes/containers on the host. Depending on your use cases they might
be interesting. Performance comparisons against VDUSE and FUSE exports
would be interesting since these new approaches seem to be replacing
qemu-nbd.
Can you share more about your use cases for the dm-qcow2 target? It
could be useful for everyone I've CCed to be aware of various efforts in
this area.
Thanks,
Stefan
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* Re: Attaching qcow2 images to containers
2022-05-18 6:30 ` [dm-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
@ 2022-05-19 8:41 ` Fam Zheng
-1 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Fam Zheng @ 2022-05-19 8:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Hajnoczi
Cc: Kirill Tkhai, qemu-devel, dm-devel, linux-kernel, Kevin Wolf,
hreitz, Xie Yongji, sgarzare
On 2022-05-18 07:30, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> Hi Kirill,
> I saw your "[PATCH 0/4] dm: Introduce dm-qcow2 driver to attach QCOW2
> files as block device" patch series:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kernel/YkME5ZS2CpXuNmN6@infradead.org/T/
>
> There has been recent work in vDPA (VIRTIO Data Path Acceleration) to
> achieve similar functionality. The qemu-storage-daemon VDUSE export
> attaches a virtio-blk device to the host kernel and QEMU's qcow2
> implementation can be used:
> https://patchew.org/QEMU/20220504074051.90-1-xieyongji@bytedance.com/
>
> A container can then access this virtio-blk device (/dev/vda). Note that
> the virtio-blk device is implemented in software using vDPA/VDUSE, there
> is no virtio-pci device.
>
> As a quick comparison with a dm-qcow2 target, this approach keeps the
> qcow2 code in QEMU userspace and can take advantage of QEMU block layer
> features (storage migration/mirroring/backup, snapshots, etc). On the
> other hand, it's likely to be more heavyweight because bounce buffers
> are required in VDUSE for security reasons, there is a separate
> userspace process involved, and there's the virtio_blk.ko driver and an
> emulated virtio-blk device involved.
>
> Another similar feature that was recently added to QEMU is the
> qemu-storage-daemon FUSE export:
>
> $ qemu-storage-daemon \
> --blockdev file,filename=test.img,node-name=drive0 \
> --export fuse,node-name=drive0,id=fuse0,mountpoint=/tmp/foo
> $ ls -alF /tmp/foo
> -r--------. 1 me me 10737418240 May 18 07:22 /tmp/foo
>
> This exports a disk image as a file via FUSE. Programs can access it
> like a regular file and qemu-storage-daemon will do the qcow2 I/O on the
> underlying file.
>
> I wanted to mention these options for exposing qcow2 disk images to
> processes/containers on the host. Depending on your use cases they might
> be interesting. Performance comparisons against VDUSE and FUSE exports
> would be interesting since these new approaches seem to be replacing
> qemu-nbd.
In addition, there was also qemu-tcmu, (more PoC compared to other options):
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2016-10/msg04408.html
Fam
>
> Can you share more about your use cases for the dm-qcow2 target? It
> could be useful for everyone I've CCed to be aware of various efforts in
> this area.
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [dm-devel] Attaching qcow2 images to containers
@ 2022-05-19 8:41 ` Fam Zheng
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Fam Zheng @ 2022-05-19 8:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Hajnoczi
Cc: Kevin Wolf, Kirill Tkhai, linux-kernel, qemu-devel, Xie Yongji,
dm-devel, hreitz, sgarzare
On 2022-05-18 07:30, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> Hi Kirill,
> I saw your "[PATCH 0/4] dm: Introduce dm-qcow2 driver to attach QCOW2
> files as block device" patch series:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kernel/YkME5ZS2CpXuNmN6@infradead.org/T/
>
> There has been recent work in vDPA (VIRTIO Data Path Acceleration) to
> achieve similar functionality. The qemu-storage-daemon VDUSE export
> attaches a virtio-blk device to the host kernel and QEMU's qcow2
> implementation can be used:
> https://patchew.org/QEMU/20220504074051.90-1-xieyongji@bytedance.com/
>
> A container can then access this virtio-blk device (/dev/vda). Note that
> the virtio-blk device is implemented in software using vDPA/VDUSE, there
> is no virtio-pci device.
>
> As a quick comparison with a dm-qcow2 target, this approach keeps the
> qcow2 code in QEMU userspace and can take advantage of QEMU block layer
> features (storage migration/mirroring/backup, snapshots, etc). On the
> other hand, it's likely to be more heavyweight because bounce buffers
> are required in VDUSE for security reasons, there is a separate
> userspace process involved, and there's the virtio_blk.ko driver and an
> emulated virtio-blk device involved.
>
> Another similar feature that was recently added to QEMU is the
> qemu-storage-daemon FUSE export:
>
> $ qemu-storage-daemon \
> --blockdev file,filename=test.img,node-name=drive0 \
> --export fuse,node-name=drive0,id=fuse0,mountpoint=/tmp/foo
> $ ls -alF /tmp/foo
> -r--------. 1 me me 10737418240 May 18 07:22 /tmp/foo
>
> This exports a disk image as a file via FUSE. Programs can access it
> like a regular file and qemu-storage-daemon will do the qcow2 I/O on the
> underlying file.
>
> I wanted to mention these options for exposing qcow2 disk images to
> processes/containers on the host. Depending on your use cases they might
> be interesting. Performance comparisons against VDUSE and FUSE exports
> would be interesting since these new approaches seem to be replacing
> qemu-nbd.
In addition, there was also qemu-tcmu, (more PoC compared to other options):
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2016-10/msg04408.html
Fam
>
> Can you share more about your use cases for the dm-qcow2 target? It
> could be useful for everyone I've CCed to be aware of various efforts in
> this area.
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan
--
dm-devel mailing list
dm-devel@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Attaching qcow2 images to containers
2022-05-18 6:30 ` [dm-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
@ 2022-07-25 21:15 ` Kirill Tkhai
-1 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Kirill Tkhai @ 2022-07-25 21:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Hajnoczi, Kirill Tkhai
Cc: qemu-devel, dm-devel, linux-kernel, Kevin Wolf, hreitz,
Xie Yongji, sgarzare, tkhai
Hi, Stefan,
sorry for the late reply. I missed your message since I don't use that email address anymore.
Sent a patch to fix the stale address in .mailmap.
On 18.05.2022 09:30, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> Hi Kirill,
> I saw your "[PATCH 0/4] dm: Introduce dm-qcow2 driver to attach QCOW2
> files as block device" patch series:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kernel/YkME5ZS2CpXuNmN6@infradead.org/T/
>
> There has been recent work in vDPA (VIRTIO Data Path Acceleration) to
> achieve similar functionality. The qemu-storage-daemon VDUSE export
> attaches a virtio-blk device to the host kernel and QEMU's qcow2
> implementation can be used:
> https://patchew.org/QEMU/20220504074051.90-1-xieyongji@bytedance.com/
>
> A container can then access this virtio-blk device (/dev/vda). Note that
> the virtio-blk device is implemented in software using vDPA/VDUSE, there
> is no virtio-pci device.
>
> As a quick comparison with a dm-qcow2 target, this approach keeps the
> qcow2 code in QEMU userspace and can take advantage of QEMU block layer
> features (storage migration/mirroring/backup, snapshots, etc). On the
> other hand, it's likely to be more heavyweight because bounce buffers
> are required in VDUSE for security reasons, there is a separate
> userspace process involved, and there's the virtio_blk.ko driver and an
> emulated virtio-blk device involved.
The main idea is to reach the best performance and density. This is possible only,
if driver's hot path is implemented in kernel. Comparing to NBD the driver shows
much better results in these criteria.
This has a continuation, and I mean DAX here. IO handling with any userspace-based
implementation will be slower, than DAX in case of kernel-based implementation. So,
in my driver IO handling is done in kernel, while DAX support is a subject of
the future development.
And this driver and advantages of QEMU block layer are not mutually exclusive.
This driver *does not implement* snapshot or backup support, here is only hot-path
doing IO handling.
> Another similar feature that was recently added to QEMU is the
> qemu-storage-daemon FUSE export:
>
> $ qemu-storage-daemon \
> --blockdev file,filename=test.img,node-name=drive0 \
> --export fuse,node-name=drive0,id=fuse0,mountpoint=/tmp/foo
> $ ls -alF /tmp/foo
> -r--------. 1 me me 10737418240 May 18 07:22 /tmp/foo
>
> This exports a disk image as a file via FUSE. Programs can access it
> like a regular file and qemu-storage-daemon will do the qcow2 I/O on the
> underlying file.
>
> I wanted to mention these options for exposing qcow2 disk images to
> processes/containers on the host. Depending on your use cases they might
> be interesting. Performance comparisons against VDUSE and FUSE exports
> would be interesting since these new approaches seem to be replacing
> qemu-nbd.
>
> Can you share more about your use cases for the dm-qcow2 target? It
> could be useful for everyone I've CCed to be aware of various efforts in
> this area.
The use case is containers, and they are the requestor for high density.
The userspace-based implementation overhead will be noticeable on nodes
running a lot of containers (just because of any overhead is noticeable
there :)). Also, it's very useful to use the same disk image for VMs and
containers giving people to choose what they want in the moment.
Best wishes,
Kirill
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [dm-devel] Attaching qcow2 images to containers
@ 2022-07-25 21:15 ` Kirill Tkhai
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Kirill Tkhai @ 2022-07-25 21:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Hajnoczi, Kirill Tkhai
Cc: Kevin Wolf, linux-kernel, dm-devel, qemu-devel, Xie Yongji,
hreitz, tkhai, sgarzare
Hi, Stefan,
sorry for the late reply. I missed your message since I don't use that email address anymore.
Sent a patch to fix the stale address in .mailmap.
On 18.05.2022 09:30, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> Hi Kirill,
> I saw your "[PATCH 0/4] dm: Introduce dm-qcow2 driver to attach QCOW2
> files as block device" patch series:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kernel/YkME5ZS2CpXuNmN6@infradead.org/T/
>
> There has been recent work in vDPA (VIRTIO Data Path Acceleration) to
> achieve similar functionality. The qemu-storage-daemon VDUSE export
> attaches a virtio-blk device to the host kernel and QEMU's qcow2
> implementation can be used:
> https://patchew.org/QEMU/20220504074051.90-1-xieyongji@bytedance.com/
>
> A container can then access this virtio-blk device (/dev/vda). Note that
> the virtio-blk device is implemented in software using vDPA/VDUSE, there
> is no virtio-pci device.
>
> As a quick comparison with a dm-qcow2 target, this approach keeps the
> qcow2 code in QEMU userspace and can take advantage of QEMU block layer
> features (storage migration/mirroring/backup, snapshots, etc). On the
> other hand, it's likely to be more heavyweight because bounce buffers
> are required in VDUSE for security reasons, there is a separate
> userspace process involved, and there's the virtio_blk.ko driver and an
> emulated virtio-blk device involved.
The main idea is to reach the best performance and density. This is possible only,
if driver's hot path is implemented in kernel. Comparing to NBD the driver shows
much better results in these criteria.
This has a continuation, and I mean DAX here. IO handling with any userspace-based
implementation will be slower, than DAX in case of kernel-based implementation. So,
in my driver IO handling is done in kernel, while DAX support is a subject of
the future development.
And this driver and advantages of QEMU block layer are not mutually exclusive.
This driver *does not implement* snapshot or backup support, here is only hot-path
doing IO handling.
> Another similar feature that was recently added to QEMU is the
> qemu-storage-daemon FUSE export:
>
> $ qemu-storage-daemon \
> --blockdev file,filename=test.img,node-name=drive0 \
> --export fuse,node-name=drive0,id=fuse0,mountpoint=/tmp/foo
> $ ls -alF /tmp/foo
> -r--------. 1 me me 10737418240 May 18 07:22 /tmp/foo
>
> This exports a disk image as a file via FUSE. Programs can access it
> like a regular file and qemu-storage-daemon will do the qcow2 I/O on the
> underlying file.
>
> I wanted to mention these options for exposing qcow2 disk images to
> processes/containers on the host. Depending on your use cases they might
> be interesting. Performance comparisons against VDUSE and FUSE exports
> would be interesting since these new approaches seem to be replacing
> qemu-nbd.
>
> Can you share more about your use cases for the dm-qcow2 target? It
> could be useful for everyone I've CCed to be aware of various efforts in
> this area.
The use case is containers, and they are the requestor for high density.
The userspace-based implementation overhead will be noticeable on nodes
running a lot of containers (just because of any overhead is noticeable
there :)). Also, it's very useful to use the same disk image for VMs and
containers giving people to choose what they want in the moment.
Best wishes,
Kirill
--
dm-devel mailing list
dm-devel@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread