wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Maximilian Engelhardt]

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Hi,

In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in ETSI 
EN 300 440-1 [2].
According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in the 
frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power of 
25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of 802.11 
devices.

[3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of the 
SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38 in the 
paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.

Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.

If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for the 
other countries listed in [3].

Thanks,
Maxi


[1] http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/radio/short-range-devices
[2] http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300400_300499/30044001/01.06.01_60/en_30044001v010601p.pdf
[3] http://www.erodocdb.dk/Docs/doc98/official/pdf/REC7003e.pdf


diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
index e9ba21a..38a9340 100644
--- a/db.txt
+++ b/db.txt
@@ -319,6 +319,9 @@ country CZ: DFS-ETSI
 # limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
 # apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
 # absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
+# The ETSI EN 300 440-1 standard for short range devices in the 5 GHz band has
+# been implemented in Germany:
+# https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Frequenzen/Allgemeinzuteilungen/2014_69_SRD_pdf.pdf
 
 country DE: DFS-ETSI
        # entries 279004 and 280006
@@ -329,6 +332,8 @@ country DE: DFS-ETSI
        (5250 - 5350 @ 80), (100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS, AUTO-BW
        # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
        (5470 - 5725 @ 160), (500 mW), DFS
+       # short range devices (ETSI EN 300 440-1)
+       (5725 - 5875 @ 80), (25 mW)
        # 60 GHz band channels 1-4, ref: Etsi En 302 567
        (57000 - 66000 @ 2160), (40)



-- 
Maximilian Engelhardt
Dipl.-Ing. (Univ.)
 
perisens GmbH
Lichtenbergstraße 8
85748 Garching bei München

tel:    +49 89 2155203-10
fax:    +49 89 2155203-19
web:    http://www.perisens.de/
_____________

perisens GmbH
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Florian Pfeiffer 
Sitz und Registergericht: München HRB 181857
USt-ID: DE-267481419

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[wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Maximilian Engelhardt]

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Hi,

In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in ETSI 
EN 300 440-1 [2].
According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in the 
frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power of 
25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of 802.11 
devices.

[3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of the 
SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38 in the 
paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.

Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.

If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for the 
other countries listed in [3].

Thanks,
Maxi


[1] http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/radio/short-range-devices
[2] http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300400_300499/30044001/01.06.01_60/en_30044001v010601p.pdf
[3] http://www.erodocdb.dk/Docs/doc98/official/pdf/REC7003e.pdf


diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
index e9ba21a..38a9340 100644
--- a/db.txt
+++ b/db.txt
@@ -319,6 +319,9 @@ country CZ: DFS-ETSI
 # limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
 # apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
 # absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
+# The ETSI EN 300 440-1 standard for short range devices in the 5 GHz band has
+# been implemented in Germany:
+# https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Frequenzen/Allgemeinzuteilungen/2014_69_SRD_pdf.pdf
 
 country DE: DFS-ETSI
        # entries 279004 and 280006
@@ -329,6 +332,8 @@ country DE: DFS-ETSI
        (5250 - 5350 @ 80), (100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS, AUTO-BW
        # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
        (5470 - 5725 @ 160), (500 mW), DFS
+       # short range devices (ETSI EN 300 440-1)
+       (5725 - 5875 @ 80), (25 mW)
        # 60 GHz band channels 1-4, ref: Etsi En 302 567
        (57000 - 66000 @ 2160), (40)



-- 
Maximilian Engelhardt
Dipl.-Ing. (Univ.)
 
perisens GmbH
Lichtenbergstraße 8
85748 Garching bei München

tel:    +49 89 2155203-10
fax:    +49 89 2155203-19
web:    http://www.perisens.de/
_____________

perisens GmbH
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Florian Pfeiffer 
Sitz und Registergericht: München HRB 181857
USt-ID: DE-267481419

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 170 bytes --]

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Petko Bordjukov]

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Hello,

Just to add my input to this thread. I've previously contributed the SRD ranges
for Bulgaria, hopefully this info will provide pointers for research in other EU
countries. Since then I've doublechecked the standards situation for Wi-Fi with
the local communications regulation commission and one of the staffers there has
given me an expert opinion (I would attach it, but it's a nasty HTML email in
Bulgarian, if there's interest, I'd be glad to share and translate it).

The gist on the SRDs is that in Bulgaria they fall under the following
standards (which correspond to ETSI standards):

BDS EN 300 440-2[0]
BDS EN 300 674-2-2[1]

Note that the first one is a harmonized standard (so in theory it should be
universally adopted accross the EU) and the second one is a candidate harmonized
standard (so you should check if it's already been adopted locally).

As far as I could tell, BDS EN 300 674-2-2 defines the maximum e.i.r.p. for the
SRD range but someone more knowledgable should take a look, too.

One thing that they did not mention is that there's a BDS EN 300 440-1[2] that
does indeed also specify the max e.i.r.p. but I've reached this through my own
research and did not get this info from anybody affilliated with the CRC.

Also, note that the EN 300 440-1[3] still does NOT seem to be a harmonized standard
(again, probably one should check if it has been adopted locally).

[0] http://www.bds-bg.org/en/standard/?natstandard_document_id=47135
[1] http://www.bds-bg.org/bg/standard/?natstandard_document_id=32906
[2] http://www.bds-bg.org/bg/standard/?natstandard_document_id=30570
[3] http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300400_300499/30044001/01.06.01_60/en_30044001v010601p.pdf

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:03:16 +0300,
Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in ETSI
> EN 300 440-1 [2].

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Petko Bordjukov]

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Hello,

Just to add my input to this thread. I've previously contributed the SRD ranges
for Bulgaria, hopefully this info will provide pointers for research in other EU
countries. Since then I've doublechecked the standards situation for Wi-Fi with
the local communications regulation commission and one of the staffers there has
given me an expert opinion (I would attach it, but it's a nasty HTML email in
Bulgarian, if there's interest, I'd be glad to share and translate it).

The gist on the SRDs is that in Bulgaria they fall under the following
standards (which correspond to ETSI standards):

BDS EN 300 440-2[0]
BDS EN 300 674-2-2[1]

Note that the first one is a harmonized standard (so in theory it should be
universally adopted accross the EU) and the second one is a candidate harmonized
standard (so you should check if it's already been adopted locally).

As far as I could tell, BDS EN 300 674-2-2 defines the maximum e.i.r.p. for the
SRD range but someone more knowledgable should take a look, too.

One thing that they did not mention is that there's a BDS EN 300 440-1[2] that
does indeed also specify the max e.i.r.p. but I've reached this through my own
research and did not get this info from anybody affilliated with the CRC.

Also, note that the EN 300 440-1[3] still does NOT seem to be a harmonized standard
(again, probably one should check if it has been adopted locally).

[0] http://www.bds-bg.org/en/standard/?natstandard_document_id=47135
[1] http://www.bds-bg.org/bg/standard/?natstandard_document_id=32906
[2] http://www.bds-bg.org/bg/standard/?natstandard_document_id=30570
[3] http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/300400_300499/30044001/01.06.01_60/en_30044001v010601p.pdf

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:03:16 +0300,
Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in ETSI
> EN 300 440-1 [2].

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Bjørn Mork]

Petko Bordjukov <bordjukov@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Just to add my input to this thread. I've previously contributed the SRD ranges
> for Bulgaria, hopefully this info will provide pointers for research in other EU
> countries. Since then I've doublechecked the standards situation for Wi-Fi with
> the local communications regulation commission and one of the staffers there has
> given me an expert opinion (I would attach it, but it's a nasty HTML email in
> Bulgarian, if there's interest, I'd be glad to share and translate it).
>
> The gist on the SRDs is that in Bulgaria they fall under the following
> standards (which correspond to ETSI standards):
>
> BDS EN 300 440-2[0]
> BDS EN 300 674-2-2[1]
>
> Note that the first one is a harmonized standard (so in theory it should be
> universally adopted accross the EU) and the second one is a candidate harmonized
> standard (so you should check if it's already been adopted locally).
>
> As far as I could tell, BDS EN 300 674-2-2 defines the maximum e.i.r.p. for the
> SRD range but someone more knowledgable should take a look, too.

Ah, the references to those specs bring back memories of good times with
the European Tourism and Sightseeing Institute in the 90ies :) I
remember heated (but friendly) discussions in RES 8 about 300 674 for
years before it finally was published

Anyway, 300 674 is for vehicle transponder systems.  I.e. electronic
toll collection etc.  I don't think it's relevant to the regdb in any
way.

The generic SRDs covered by 300 440 are more relevant.  But this is
still not a license regulation.  It can probably be used as a harmonized
standard with reference to the Radio Equipment Directive, but licensing
is not in the scope AFAIK.  Spectrum utilization is not fully harmonized
in the EU.  So you have to look at the national regulations for every
country, even within the EU.

The ERC recommendation Maximilian linked to (
http://www.erodocdb.dk/Docs/doc98/official/pdf/REC7003e.pdf ) is much
more useful, since it is a collection of SRD licensing rules for all
CEPT countries. Which are much more than "just" the EU - 48 countries
now, according to http://cept.org/cept

But you'll still have to look into the actual national regulations.  In
my experience, the listed restrictions and conditions in appendix 3 of
ERC/REC 70-03 are often imprecise or incomplete.  It's definitely best
to do what you did: Talk to the local regulatory authorities.  I'm sure
most of them are more then interested in helping to improve the regdb.


Bjørn

Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Bjørn Mork]

Petko Bordjukov <bordjukov@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Just to add my input to this thread. I've previously contributed the SRD ranges
> for Bulgaria, hopefully this info will provide pointers for research in other EU
> countries. Since then I've doublechecked the standards situation for Wi-Fi with
> the local communications regulation commission and one of the staffers there has
> given me an expert opinion (I would attach it, but it's a nasty HTML email in
> Bulgarian, if there's interest, I'd be glad to share and translate it).
>
> The gist on the SRDs is that in Bulgaria they fall under the following
> standards (which correspond to ETSI standards):
>
> BDS EN 300 440-2[0]
> BDS EN 300 674-2-2[1]
>
> Note that the first one is a harmonized standard (so in theory it should be
> universally adopted accross the EU) and the second one is a candidate harmonized
> standard (so you should check if it's already been adopted locally).
>
> As far as I could tell, BDS EN 300 674-2-2 defines the maximum e.i.r.p. for the
> SRD range but someone more knowledgable should take a look, too.

Ah, the references to those specs bring back memories of good times with
the European Tourism and Sightseeing Institute in the 90ies :) I
remember heated (but friendly) discussions in RES 8 about 300 674 for
years before it finally was published

Anyway, 300 674 is for vehicle transponder systems.  I.e. electronic
toll collection etc.  I don't think it's relevant to the regdb in any
way.

The generic SRDs covered by 300 440 are more relevant.  But this is
still not a license regulation.  It can probably be used as a harmonized
standard with reference to the Radio Equipment Directive, but licensing
is not in the scope AFAIK.  Spectrum utilization is not fully harmonized
in the EU.  So you have to look at the national regulations for every
country, even within the EU.

The ERC recommendation Maximilian linked to (
http://www.erodocdb.dk/Docs/doc98/official/pdf/REC7003e.pdf ) is much
more useful, since it is a collection of SRD licensing rules for all
CEPT countries. Which are much more than "just" the EU - 48 countries
now, according to http://cept.org/cept

But you'll still have to look into the actual national regulations.  In
my experience, the listed restrictions and conditions in appendix 3 of
ERC/REC 70-03 are often imprecise or incomplete.  It's definitely best
to do what you did: Talk to the local regulatory authorities.  I'm sure
most of them are more then interested in helping to improve the regdb.


Bjørn

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Petko Bordjukov]

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On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:11:58 +0300,
Bjørn Mork wrote:
> Anyway, 300 674 is for vehicle transponder systems.  I.e. electronic
> toll collection etc.  I don't think it's relevant to the regdb in any
> way.

Thanks for the response! I'll be sure to ask the CRC why do they reference 300
674 in the _Generic_ 5725-5875 MHz SRD section of list of devices that use
EU-harmonised frequency bands and what's the status of 300 440-1.

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Petko Bordjukov]

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On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:11:58 +0300,
Bjørn Mork wrote:
> Anyway, 300 674 is for vehicle transponder systems.  I.e. electronic
> toll collection etc.  I don't think it's relevant to the regdb in any
> way.

Thanks for the response! I'll be sure to ask the CRC why do they reference 300
674 in the _Generic_ 5725-5875 MHz SRD section of list of devices that use
EU-harmonised frequency bands and what's the status of 300 440-1.

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Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in ETSI 
> EN 300 440-1 [2].
> According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in the 
> frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power of 
> 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of 802.11 
> devices.
> 
> [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of the 
> SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38 in the 
> paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> 
> Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> 
> If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for the 
> other countries listed in [3].

The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tree/CONTRIBUTING.

Thanks,
Seth

Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in ETSI 
> EN 300 440-1 [2].
> According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in the 
> frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power of 
> 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of 802.11 
> devices.
> 
> [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of the 
> SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38 in the 
> paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> 
> Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> 
> If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for the 
> other countries listed in [3].

The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tree/CONTRIBUTING.

Thanks,
Seth

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Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Maximilian Engelhardt]

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On Thursday 21 April 2016 08:19:38 Seth Forshee wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in
> > ETSI EN 300 440-1 [2].
> > According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in
> > the frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power
> > of 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of
> > 802.11 devices.
> > 
> > [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of
> > the SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38
> > in the paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> > 
> > Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> > 
> > If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for
> > the
> > other countries listed in [3].
> 
> The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
> signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tre
> e/CONTRIBUTING.
> 
> Thanks,
> Seth

Hi Seth,

Thanks for your reply. You can find my signed-off-by tag below together with 
the unchanged patch.

I can affirm I did check this carefully with the official documents of the 
German administration for radio equipment (Bundesnetzagentur für Elektrizität, 
Gas, Telekommunikation, Post und Eisenbahnen).

I noticed that the links to the other entries for Germany are broken, as the 
website design was changed and thus all old link became non functional. I can 
provide a patch fixing this if it is something that's considered useful.


The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
for countries other than Germany.

If there is anything I can do to help adding the SRD entries for more 
countries please let me know.

Thanks,
Maxi


Signed-off-by: Maximilian Engelhardt <engelhardt@perisens.de>
--

diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
index e9ba21a..38a9340 100644
--- a/db.txt
+++ b/db.txt
@@ -319,6 +319,9 @@ country CZ: DFS-ETSI
 # limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
 # apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
 # absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
+# The ETSI EN 300 440-1 standard for short range devices in the 5 GHz band has
+# been implemented in Germany:
+# https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Frequenzen/Allgemeinzuteilungen/2014_69_SRD_pdf.pdf
 
 country DE: DFS-ETSI
        # entries 279004 and 280006
@@ -329,6 +332,8 @@ country DE: DFS-ETSI
        (5250 - 5350 @ 80), (100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS, AUTO-BW
        # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
        (5470 - 5725 @ 160), (500 mW), DFS
+       # short range devices (ETSI EN 300 440-1)
+       (5725 - 5875 @ 80), (25 mW)
        # 60 GHz band channels 1-4, ref: Etsi En 302 567
        (57000 - 66000 @ 2160), (40)

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Maximilian Engelhardt]

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On Thursday 21 April 2016 08:19:38 Seth Forshee wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in
> > ETSI EN 300 440-1 [2].
> > According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in
> > the frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power
> > of 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of
> > 802.11 devices.
> > 
> > [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of
> > the SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38
> > in the paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> > 
> > Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> > 
> > If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for
> > the
> > other countries listed in [3].
> 
> The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
> signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tre
> e/CONTRIBUTING.
> 
> Thanks,
> Seth

Hi Seth,

Thanks for your reply. You can find my signed-off-by tag below together with 
the unchanged patch.

I can affirm I did check this carefully with the official documents of the 
German administration for radio equipment (Bundesnetzagentur für Elektrizität, 
Gas, Telekommunikation, Post und Eisenbahnen).

I noticed that the links to the other entries for Germany are broken, as the 
website design was changed and thus all old link became non functional. I can 
provide a patch fixing this if it is something that's considered useful.


The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
for countries other than Germany.

If there is anything I can do to help adding the SRD entries for more 
countries please let me know.

Thanks,
Maxi


Signed-off-by: Maximilian Engelhardt <engelhardt@perisens.de>
--

diff --git a/db.txt b/db.txt
index e9ba21a..38a9340 100644
--- a/db.txt
+++ b/db.txt
@@ -319,6 +319,9 @@ country CZ: DFS-ETSI
 # limit is used here as the non-interference with radar and satellite
 # apps relies on the attenuation by the building walls only in the
 # absence of DFS; the neighbour countries have 100mW limit here as well.
+# The ETSI EN 300 440-1 standard for short range devices in the 5 GHz band has
+# been implemented in Germany:
+# https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Frequenzen/Allgemeinzuteilungen/2014_69_SRD_pdf.pdf
 
 country DE: DFS-ETSI
        # entries 279004 and 280006
@@ -329,6 +332,8 @@ country DE: DFS-ETSI
        (5250 - 5350 @ 80), (100 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS, AUTO-BW
        # entries 308002, 309001 and 310003
        (5470 - 5725 @ 160), (500 mW), DFS
+       # short range devices (ETSI EN 300 440-1)
+       (5725 - 5875 @ 80), (25 mW)
        # 60 GHz band channels 1-4, ref: Etsi En 302 567
        (57000 - 66000 @ 2160), (40)

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Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> On Thursday 21 April 2016 08:19:38 Seth Forshee wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in
> > > ETSI EN 300 440-1 [2].
> > > According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in
> > > the frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power
> > > of 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of
> > > 802.11 devices.
> > > 
> > > [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of
> > > the SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38
> > > in the paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> > > 
> > > Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> > > 
> > > If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for
> > > the
> > > other countries listed in [3].
> > 
> > The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
> > signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
> > https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tre
> > e/CONTRIBUTING.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Seth
> 
> Hi Seth,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. You can find my signed-off-by tag below together with 
> the unchanged patch.

Thanks, that will work. I'll leave it for a few days and see if anyone
else has comments.

> I can affirm I did check this carefully with the official documents of the 
> German administration for radio equipment (Bundesnetzagentur für Elektrizität, 
> Gas, Telekommunikation, Post und Eisenbahnen).
> 
> I noticed that the links to the other entries for Germany are broken, as the 
> website design was changed and thus all old link became non functional. I can 
> provide a patch fixing this if it is something that's considered useful.

Yes, that would be useful, so please do.

> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
> for countries other than Germany.

Yep, I understand and am in agreement. I know how challenging it can be
to try to track down this information.

Thanks,
Seth

Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> On Thursday 21 April 2016 08:19:38 Seth Forshee wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in
> > > ETSI EN 300 440-1 [2].
> > > According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in
> > > the frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power
> > > of 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of
> > > 802.11 devices.
> > > 
> > > [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of
> > > the SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38
> > > in the paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> > > 
> > > Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> > > 
> > > If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for
> > > the
> > > other countries listed in [3].
> > 
> > The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
> > signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
> > https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tre
> > e/CONTRIBUTING.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Seth
> 
> Hi Seth,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. You can find my signed-off-by tag below together with 
> the unchanged patch.

Thanks, that will work. I'll leave it for a few days and see if anyone
else has comments.

> I can affirm I did check this carefully with the official documents of the 
> German administration for radio equipment (Bundesnetzagentur für Elektrizität, 
> Gas, Telekommunikation, Post und Eisenbahnen).
> 
> I noticed that the links to the other entries for Germany are broken, as the 
> website design was changed and thus all old link became non functional. I can 
> provide a patch fixing this if it is something that's considered useful.

Yes, that would be useful, so please do.

> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
> for countries other than Germany.

Yep, I understand and am in agreement. I know how challenging it can be
to try to track down this information.

Thanks,
Seth

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Anne Marcel Roorda]

On 21 Apr 2016, Seth Forshee wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
>
>> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
>> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
>> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
>> for countries other than Germany.
>
>Yep, I understand and am in agreement. I know how challenging it can be
>to try to track down this information.

  I could do the same for NL.

  At the moment entries for NL are listed as center frequencies
(almost, 5490 - 5710 @ 160 should be 5550 - 5645 @ 160), while for DE
the whole band is listed (5470 - 5725 @ 160).

  Power budget is listed in db while the law specifies mW.

  What is the prefered format, and would a rewrite for NL listing the band
and power in mW be acceptable ?

Thanks,

- marcel

Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Anne Marcel Roorda]

On 21 Apr 2016, Seth Forshee wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
>
>> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
>> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
>> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
>> for countries other than Germany.
>
>Yep, I understand and am in agreement. I know how challenging it can be
>to try to track down this information.

  I could do the same for NL.

  At the moment entries for NL are listed as center frequencies
(almost, 5490 - 5710 @ 160 should be 5550 - 5645 @ 160), while for DE
the whole band is listed (5470 - 5725 @ 160).

  Power budget is listed in db while the law specifies mW.

  What is the prefered format, and would a rewrite for NL listing the band
and power in mW be acceptable ?

Thanks,

- marcel

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Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:13:14PM +0200, Anne Marcel Roorda wrote:
> 
> On 21 Apr 2016, Seth Forshee wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> >
> >> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
> >> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
> >> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
> >> for countries other than Germany.
> >
> >Yep, I understand and am in agreement. I know how challenging it can be
> >to try to track down this information.
> 
>   I could do the same for NL.

That would be great, if anything about the current rules is incorrect or
out of date.

>   At the moment entries for NL are listed as center frequencies
> (almost, 5490 - 5710 @ 160 should be 5550 - 5645 @ 160), while for DE
> the whole band is listed (5470 - 5725 @ 160).

There's no reason per se to limit it to only the range for currently
defined wifi channels if the regulatory body allows unlicensed use of a
wider range. But the rule should include the entire channel bandwith and
not stop at the center frequencies.

>   Power budget is listed in db while the law specifies mW.
> 
>   What is the prefered format, and would a rewrite for NL listing the band
> and power in mW be acceptable ?

It's a direct conversion between the dBm and mW values (in fact mW
values in the text database are converted to dBm values for the binary
database), so the units in the text file don't matter all that much. But
I don't really like changing the units just for the sake of changing
them when the values are already correct; there's always the chance that
some mistake will slip in.

Thanks,
Seth

Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:13:14PM +0200, Anne Marcel Roorda wrote:
> 
> On 21 Apr 2016, Seth Forshee wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> >
> >> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
> >> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
> >> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
> >> for countries other than Germany.
> >
> >Yep, I understand and am in agreement. I know how challenging it can be
> >to try to track down this information.
> 
>   I could do the same for NL.

That would be great, if anything about the current rules is incorrect or
out of date.

>   At the moment entries for NL are listed as center frequencies
> (almost, 5490 - 5710 @ 160 should be 5550 - 5645 @ 160), while for DE
> the whole band is listed (5470 - 5725 @ 160).

There's no reason per se to limit it to only the range for currently
defined wifi channels if the regulatory body allows unlicensed use of a
wider range. But the rule should include the entire channel bandwith and
not stop at the center frequencies.

>   Power budget is listed in db while the law specifies mW.
> 
>   What is the prefered format, and would a rewrite for NL listing the band
> and power in mW be acceptable ?

It's a direct conversion between the dBm and mW values (in fact mW
values in the text database are converted to dBm values for the binary
database), so the units in the text file don't matter all that much. But
I don't really like changing the units just for the sake of changing
them when the values are already correct; there's always the chance that
some mistake will slip in.

Thanks,
Seth

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Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> On Thursday 21 April 2016 08:19:38 Seth Forshee wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in
> > > ETSI EN 300 440-1 [2].
> > > According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in
> > > the frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power
> > > of 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of
> > > 802.11 devices.
> > > 
> > > [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of
> > > the SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38
> > > in the paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> > > 
> > > Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> > > 
> > > If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for
> > > the
> > > other countries listed in [3].
> > 
> > The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
> > signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
> > https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tre
> > e/CONTRIBUTING.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Seth
> 
> Hi Seth,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. You can find my signed-off-by tag below together with 
> the unchanged patch.
> 
> I can affirm I did check this carefully with the official documents of the 
> German administration for radio equipment (Bundesnetzagentur für Elektrizität, 
> Gas, Telekommunikation, Post und Eisenbahnen).
> 
> I noticed that the links to the other entries for Germany are broken, as the 
> website design was changed and thus all old link became non functional. I can 
> provide a patch fixing this if it is something that's considered useful.
> 
> 
> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
> for countries other than Germany.
> 
> If there is anything I can do to help adding the SRD entries for more 
> countries please let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Maxi
> 
> 
> Signed-off-by: Maximilian Engelhardt <engelhardt@perisens.de>

Applied, thanks.

Re: [wireless-regdb] wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Seth Forshee]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:08:46PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> On Thursday 21 April 2016 08:19:38 Seth Forshee wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 08:03:16PM +0200, Maximilian Engelhardt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > In Europe ETSI standardized the used for short range devices (SRD) [1] in
> > > ETSI EN 300 440-1 [2].
> > > According to this standard generic use equipment is allowed to transmit in
> > > the frequency range form 5725 MHz to 5875 MHz with a maximum output power
> > > of 25 mW e.i.r.p. This generic allocation also allows transmission of
> > > 802.11 devices.
> > > 
> > > [3] has a list of countries and their status about the implementation of
> > > the SRD frequency bands. For the 5 GHz band this can be seen on page 38
> > > in the paragraph ANNEX 1 and the entry Annex j.
> > > 
> > > Attached is a patch that adds the 5 GHz SRD band to db.txt for Germany.
> > > 
> > > If it is acceptable I can provide a patch adding the 5 GHz SRD band for
> > > the
> > > other countries listed in [3].
> > 
> > The changes seem okay as far as I can tell. You do need to include your
> > signed-off-by tag on the patch however, see
> > https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tre
> > e/CONTRIBUTING.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Seth
> 
> Hi Seth,
> 
> Thanks for your reply. You can find my signed-off-by tag below together with 
> the unchanged patch.
> 
> I can affirm I did check this carefully with the official documents of the 
> German administration for radio equipment (Bundesnetzagentur für Elektrizität, 
> Gas, Telekommunikation, Post und Eisenbahnen).
> 
> I noticed that the links to the other entries for Germany are broken, as the 
> website design was changed and thus all old link became non functional. I can 
> provide a patch fixing this if it is something that's considered useful.
> 
> 
> The comments to my initial mail indicated that the statement in the ERC 
> recommendation I linked are alone not enough to add this frequency ranges for 
> other countries. Unfortunately I don't have the possibility to do these checks 
> for countries other than Germany.
> 
> If there is anything I can do to help adding the SRD entries for more 
> countries please let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Maxi
> 
> 
> Signed-off-by: Maximilian Engelhardt <engelhardt@perisens.de>

Applied, thanks.

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wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Bernhard Seibold]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 792 bytes --]

Hi!

The current regdb is missing a frequency range for Germany. That
freq-range is military-controlled, so to be on the safe side, I asked
the responsible agency, and they confirmed to me that it's legal to use.
They also sent me the attached pdf (German only) which contains some
details.

Please CC me on replies.


--- a/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:38:22.838975857 +0100
+++ b/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:39:37.722248019 +0100
@@ -165,8 +165,8 @@
 country DE:
 	# entries 279004 and 280006
 	(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
-	# entries 303005 and 304002
-	(5150 - 5255 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
+	# entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
+	(5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
 	# entries 308002 and 309001
 	(5470 - 5650 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
 


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Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Johannes Berg]

Bernhard Seibold wrote:

> The current regdb is missing a frequency range for Germany. That
> freq-range is military-controlled, so to be on the safe side, I asked
> the responsible agency, and they confirmed to me that it's legal to use.
> They also sent me the attached pdf (German only) which contains some
> details.


Odd, that document is from 2006, you'd think they would integrate it into
the 2008 release of the entire freq plan...

Can we find a URL for this one?

johannes

> Please CC me on replies.
>
>
> --- a/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:38:22.838975857 +0100
> +++ b/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:39:37.722248019 +0100
> @@ -165,8 +165,8 @@
>  country DE:
>  	# entries 279004 and 280006
>  	(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> -	# entries 303005 and 304002
> -	(5150 - 5255 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> +	# entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
> +	(5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
>  	# entries 308002 and 309001
>  	(5470 - 5650 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
>
>
>

Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Johannes Berg]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 933 bytes --]

On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 08:15 +0100, Johannes Berg wrote:

> > Please CC me on replies.
> >
> >
> > --- a/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:38:22.838975857 +0100
> > +++ b/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:39:37.722248019 +0100
> > @@ -165,8 +165,8 @@
> >  country DE:
> >  	# entries 279004 and 280006
> >  	(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> > -	# entries 303005 and 304002
> > -	(5150 - 5255 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> > +	# entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
> > +	(5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> >  	# entries 308002 and 309001
> >  	(5470 - 5650 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS

Also, the 5250-5350 range requires TPC, but we haven't covered that
requirement yet I think we need to use the lower EIRP limit of 100 mW. I
guess we should also update 5470-5650 to 5470-5725 and take into account
the TCP limitation (500 mW max power then instead of 1W) which I seem to
have gotten wrong too.

johannes

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Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Bernhard Seibold]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 154 bytes --]

On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 08:15 +0100, Johannes Berg wrote:

> Can we find a URL for this one?

http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/media/archive/5009.pdf


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Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Luis R. Rodriguez]

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Bernhard Seibold
<bernhard.seibold@uni-ulm.de> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> The current regdb is missing a frequency range for Germany. That
> freq-range is military-controlled, so to be on the safe side, I asked
> the responsible agency, and they confirmed to me that it's legal to use.
> They also sent me the attached pdf (German only) which contains some
> details.
>
> Please CC me on replies.

FWIW we reviewed this internally and this matches our understanding as well. So:

Acked-by: Luis R. Rodriguez <lrodriguez@atheros.com>

  Luis

Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Luis R. Rodriguez]

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Luis R. Rodriguez <mcgrof@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Bernhard Seibold
> <bernhard.seibold@uni-ulm.de> wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> The current regdb is missing a frequency range for Germany. That
>> freq-range is military-controlled, so to be on the safe side, I asked
>> the responsible agency, and they confirmed to me that it's legal to use.
>> They also sent me the attached pdf (German only) which contains some
>> details.
>>
>> Please CC me on replies.
>
> FWIW we reviewed this internally and this matches our understanding as well. So:
>
> Acked-by: Luis R. Rodriguez <lrodriguez@atheros.com>

Oh John and if this patch is applied and mine are accepted as well
please note that we now need to update the sha1sum.txt file with the
sha1sum of db.txt upon each change. A change will trigger a recompile
upon running make, and generate your key if you don't have one.

  Luis

Re: wireless-regdb: Update regulatory rules for Germany (DE) on 5GHz

[Thomas Bächler]

Bernhard Seibold schrieb:
> --- a/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:38:22.838975857 +0100
> +++ b/db.txt	2009-03-25 19:39:37.722248019 +0100
> @@ -165,8 +165,8 @@
>  country DE:
>  	# entries 279004 and 280006
>  	(2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 100 mW)
> -	# entries 303005 and 304002
> -	(5150 - 5255 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
> +	# entries 303005, 304002 and 305002
> +	(5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 200 mW), NO-OUTDOOR, DFS
>  	# entries 308002 and 309001
>  	(5470 - 5650 @ 40), (N/A, 1000 mW), DFS
>  
> 

What about 5650-5725? Shouldn't that be added as well? At least my 
university runs an AP at 5.7GHz.