* [linux-lvm] lvm, config and commandline
@ 2011-01-27 9:37 xake
2011-01-27 16:24 ` Milan Broz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: xake @ 2011-01-27 9:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-lvm
I have a system with a script at bootup currently running something like
"lvm pvscan && lvm vgscan && lvm vgchange -ay" all with the option
"--config 'global { locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" }'" since when the script
runs /var/lock is not in a writeable state. --ignorelockingfailures is
fine, but gives a message on stderr I do not want, but I still want to get
other error messages so "2>/dev/null" is not an option.
I realized however that if I run this as a script using lvm as interpreter
(running lvm once and the commands inside of lvm) I cut the time for this
script in half.
But with that I have the following problem:
# echo "pvscan --config 'global { locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" }'" | lvm
/dev/stdin
lvm> pvscan --config 'global { locking_dir = /dev/.lvm }'
Parse error at byte 1 (line 1): unexpected token
Failed to set overridden configuration entries.
I want this:
# lvm pvscan --config 'global { locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" }'
PV /dev/sde1 VG lillen-home lvm2 [698,63 GiB / 0 free]
PV /dev/md126p1 VG lillen lvm2 [596,18 GiB / 27,18 GiB free]
Total: 2 [1,26 TiB] / in use: 2 [1,26 TiB] / in no VG: 0 [0 ]
So how do I pass --config inside of lvm and still have it able to parse it?
Also, would it not also make sens to have --config an option working
directly on lvm (something like "lvm --config "something" <command>)?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread* Re: [linux-lvm] lvm, config and commandline 2011-01-27 9:37 [linux-lvm] lvm, config and commandline xake @ 2011-01-27 16:24 ` Milan Broz 2011-01-27 17:55 ` xake 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Milan Broz @ 2011-01-27 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: LVM general discussion and development; +Cc: xake On 01/27/2011 10:37 AM, xake@rymdraket.net wrote: > I have a system with a script at bootup currently running something like > "lvm pvscan && lvm vgscan && lvm vgchange -ay" all with the option > "--config 'global { locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" }'" since when the script > runs /var/lock is not in a writeable state. --ignorelockingfailures is > fine, but gives a message on stderr I do not want, but I still want to get > other error messages so "2>/dev/null" is not an option. Use --sysinit instead of --ignorelockingfailure, no need to set that locking dir at all in this phase. If you have some strange messages paste them here, --sysinit is exactly here to handle read-only device boot problem. (seems it is just poorly documented...) Moreover, pvscan and vgscan are NOOP here, because it updates lvm cache, not possible on read-only system. All you want is probably: /sbin/lvm vgchange -a y --sysinit > I realized however that if I run this as a script using lvm as interpreter > (running lvm once and the commands inside of lvm) I cut the time for this > script in half. > > But with that I have the following problem: > > # echo "pvscan --config 'global { locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" }'" | lvm Do not do this. if there is lock dir set inlvm.conf to another directory, it is just recipe for data corruption. Do not use --config at all, there are only very special cases when it is needed system init is not one of them. > Also, would it not also make sens to have --config an option working > directly on lvm (something like "lvm --config "something" <command>)? it works this way for one command: lvm <command> --config "something" but not for the script mode. Milan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-lvm] lvm, config and commandline 2011-01-27 16:24 ` Milan Broz @ 2011-01-27 17:55 ` xake 2011-01-27 21:34 ` Milan Broz 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: xake @ 2011-01-27 17:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Milan Broz; +Cc: xake, LVM general discussion and development Thanks for your answear. > On 01/27/2011 10:37 AM, xake@rymdraket.net wrote: >> I have a system with a script at bootup currently running something like >> "lvm pvscan && lvm vgscan && lvm vgchange -ay" all with the option >> "--config 'global { locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" }'" since when the script >> runs /var/lock is not in a writeable state. --ignorelockingfailures is >> fine, but gives a message on stderr I do not want, but I still want to >> get >> other error messages so "2>/dev/null" is not an option. > > Use --sysinit instead of --ignorelockingfailure, no need to set that > locking dir at all in this phase. > > If you have some strange messages paste them here, --sysinit is exactly > here to handle read-only device boot problem. > (seems it is just poorly documented...) > > Moreover, pvscan and vgscan are NOOP here, because it updates > lvm cache, not possible on read-only system. > > All you want is probably: > /sbin/lvm vgchange -a y --sysinit > > pvscan and vgscan does not support --sysinit, that is why I use --ignorelockingfailures, and AFAICT the message is pvscan/vgscan telling me that /var/lock is not writeable and then ignores it (and I think at least vgscan should have --sysinit, because some setups may need "vgscan --mknodes"). So pvscan and vgscan only updates /etc/lvm/cache, and since that directory is read-only they are supposed to be just NO-OP and could be omitted? According to the manual page vgchange uses said cache if available, and needs vgscan to update it otherwise, does vgchange still use it with a RO mounted /etc (since vgscan cannot update said cache)? Or is "vgchange -ay --sysinit" enought to find everything and activate it for all occations that pvscan and vgscan covers, at least for newer versions of lvm2? I really do not know what is needed to get get a fully working and flexible LVM from sysinit, the manuals are sometimes somewhat unclear on what parts needs what, and the only how-to I found was at least three years old and it seems like it has happened stuff since then. One one of my computers I am running Gentoo, and they do the same "pvscan && vgscan --mknodes && vgchange -ay" as I tried (my script is loosely based on theirs). I do know it works fine on my test computer without pvscan, but placed it back there to be on the safe side, since I thought Gentoo had it for some reason, and no manual page told me convincingly what it really is good for. The vgscan was left too, because of that genkernel does not use udev/devtmpfs for its initramfs and thuse vgscan --mknodes needs to recreate the devicenodes for already activated volume groups, and I am somewhat afraid that the same issue may exist for the stuff I am currently playing with. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-lvm] lvm, config and commandline 2011-01-27 17:55 ` xake @ 2011-01-27 21:34 ` Milan Broz 2011-01-28 8:53 ` Peter Hjalmarsson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Milan Broz @ 2011-01-27 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xake; +Cc: LVM general discussion and development On 01/27/2011 06:55 PM, xake@rymdraket.net wrote: > Thanks for your answear. > >> On 01/27/2011 10:37 AM, xake@rymdraket.net wrote: >>> I have a system with a script at bootup currently running something like >>> "lvm pvscan && lvm vgscan && lvm vgchange -ay" all with the option >>> "--config 'global { locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" }'" since when the script >>> runs /var/lock is not in a writeable state. --ignorelockingfailures is >>> fine, but gives a message on stderr I do not want, but I still want to >>> get >>> other error messages so "2>/dev/null" is not an option. >> >> Use --sysinit instead of --ignorelockingfailure, no need to set that >> locking dir at all in this phase. >> >> If you have some strange messages paste them here, --sysinit is exactly >> here to handle read-only device boot problem. >> (seems it is just poorly documented...) >> >> Moreover, pvscan and vgscan are NOOP here, because it updates >> lvm cache, not possible on read-only system. >> >> All you want is probably: >> /sbin/lvm vgchange -a y --sysinit >> >> > > pvscan and vgscan does not support --sysinit, that is why I use --sysinit is special switch which should handle system init pvscan and vgscan on readonly system do nothing, just scan devices and forgot output because cache cannot be updated. With new udev systems vgscan --mknodes should be needed only when something went wrong, all device nodes are now handled by udev rules. (It was slightly different in old non-udev versions but it is history now, lvm still can handle non-udev mode it but it is not the case here.) > So pvscan and vgscan only updates /etc/lvm/cache, and since that directory > is read-only they are supposed to be just NO-OP and could be omitted? yes. But note that if you add _new_ device to system and lvm see old cache, you have to run vgscan later and run another vgchange to activate newly appeared device, see below. > According to the manual page vgchange uses said cache if available, and > needs vgscan to update it otherwise, does vgchange still use it with a RO > mounted /etc (since vgscan cannot update said cache)? > Or is "vgchange -ay --sysinit" enought to find everything and activate it > for all occations that pvscan and vgscan covers, at least for newer > versions of lvm2? --sysinit should be used only very early in boot to activate system devices needed for booting, later you should have another script to activate other devices and optionally start monitoring for lvm (used for mirror device handling). Later is system root mounted read-write so you can issue normal vgscan && vgchange. (Usually this is done for iSCSI / network attached devices which can be activated only after network is configured.) > One one of my computers I am running Gentoo, and they do the same "pvscan > && vgscan --mknodes && vgchange -ay" as I tried (my script is loosely > based on theirs). Well, I am not sure why Gentoo is doing this. --mknodes should not be needed. (If you are using that locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" consitently and controlled way, which is the Gentoo case probably, it can probably solve some problems but I personally do not like that because it probably hides some real problem in lvm interaction.) > I do know it works fine on my test computer without pvscan, but placed it > back there to be on the safe side, since I thought Gentoo had it for some > reason, and no manual page told me convincingly what it really is good > for. > The vgscan was left too, because of that genkernel does not use > udev/devtmpfs for its initramfs and thuse vgscan --mknodes needs to > recreate the devicenodes for already activated volume groups, and I am > somewhat afraid that the same issue may exist for the stuff I am currently > playing with. First, udev without devtmpfs cannot work reliably. And udev is preferred way how to create device nodes for lvm in recent versions. And udev in initramfs is known to work, the pivot root switch and persistence of udev database after remount is also solved so nodes should not disappear. I am not advocating that you must use udev, I am just saying that all this should work reliably during boot even in init ramdisk. If you want to combine non-udev start with udev using later, or you are supporting some special cases (like boot from CD and switch to root rw snapshot) it can become complicated and it is possible you still need these workarounds. (I hope one day all this system boot thing will be handled better and lvm will not need to scan for new devices itself so the whole internal device cache disappears. Current state is still kind of compromise.) Milan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [linux-lvm] lvm, config and commandline 2011-01-27 21:34 ` Milan Broz @ 2011-01-28 8:53 ` Peter Hjalmarsson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Peter Hjalmarsson @ 2011-01-28 8:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Milan Broz; +Cc: LVM general discussion and development tor 2011-01-27 klockan 22:34 +0100 skrev Milan Broz: > On 01/27/2011 06:55 PM, xake@rymdraket.net wrote: > With new udev systems vgscan --mknodes should be needed only when something > went wrong, all device nodes are now handled by udev rules. > > (It was slightly different in old non-udev versions but it is history now, > lvm still can handle non-udev mode it but it is not the case here.) > Well, in gentoo they are facing one of those places where --mknodes is needed. This is because genkernel (the distribution-provided tool to generate kernel and initrd) does not use udev/devtmpfs for its initrd/initramfs but busybox mdev (which AFAIK is supposed to works like udev) and for some reason the device nodes created by vgchange in the initrd are not recreated when the system itself runs udev (and uses devtmpfs if available in kernel). so vgscan --mknodes needs to recreate all those device nodes. And the question is if Gentoo ever can drop it, as they are very forgiving on how you want to prepare and use your initrd. > > So pvscan and vgscan only updates /etc/lvm/cache, and since that directory > > is read-only they are supposed to be just NO-OP and could be omitted? > > yes. But note that if you add _new_ device to system and lvm see old cache, > you have to run vgscan later and run another vgchange to activate newly > appeared device, see below. > If there is no cache does vgchange do its own vgscan? Why I ask is because in the genkernel initrd they do "vgscan && vgchange -ay" and for me it seems to work even with only "vgchange -ay" if I have root-on-lvm. The system I am experimenting a script for will not have root-on-lvm and will probably run its first pass of vgchange on a ro / with old cache. It may be an idea to have vgchange ignore cache on --sysinit, this because if your system for example has the following ordering for lvm and mounting: 1. initrd activates the volume group root lives on by name and mounts it ro 2. initscript issues vgchange --sysinit and uses cache from /etc/lvm/cache 3. system runs fsck on everything in fstab (that is local devices) 4. system mounts root rw 4. system mounts everything else from fstab (not needing network) Then here if you have more then one volume group, and have had to do some maintains from live media or alike not updating the cache, involving changing what hard disks/device nodes the volume groups lives on. Then after step 2 all volume groups may not have been activated for later mounting in step 3. Unless vgscan is issues and can update cache. Or --sysinit ignores cache. Or you can work around this by removing /etc/lvm/cache/.cache before / is remounted ro during shutdown, but tha is if vgchange does the scan anyway. > > According to the manual page vgchange uses said cache if available, and > > needs vgscan to update it otherwise, does vgchange still use it with a RO > > mounted /etc (since vgscan cannot update said cache)? > > > Or is "vgchange -ay --sysinit" enought to find everything and activate it > > for all occations that pvscan and vgscan covers, at least for newer > > versions of lvm2? > > --sysinit should be used only very early in boot to activate system > devices needed for booting, later you should have another script > to activate other devices and optionally start monitoring for lvm > (used for mirror device handling). > Gentoo does how I described above and the starts the monitoring/polling later on, and I see Fedora does too. Albeit both distributions scripts for starting the monitoring/polling seems bloated (doing "for vg in `vgs` ; do vgchange --monitor y --poll y $vg ; done" (note: no "-a") which does the same as just a "vgchange --monitor y --poll y" as both will not do anything for a vg not already activated, and thus already in cache so a "vgs" is just an extra unnecessary step). > > One one of my computers I am running Gentoo, and they do the same "pvscan > > && vgscan --mknodes && vgchange -ay" as I tried (my script is loosely > > based on theirs). > > Well, I am not sure why Gentoo is doing this. --mknodes should not be needed. > > (If you are using that locking_dir = "/dev/.lvm" consitently and controlled > way, which is the Gentoo case probably, it can probably solve some > problems but I personally do not like that because it probably hides > some real problem in lvm interaction.) > Like that fact that they are not using udev/devtmpfs in the genkernel initrd and may sometimes need "vgscan --mknodes --sysinit"? I bet Gentoo at least needs this even if genkernel is fixed, only to cover some corner cases of user configurations where the device nodes needs to be created. One of the downsides to allow the massive amounts of configurations they do. > > I do know it works fine on my test computer without pvscan, but placed it > > back there to be on the safe side, since I thought Gentoo had it for some > > reason, and no manual page told me convincingly what it really is good > > for. > > The vgscan was left too, because of that genkernel does not use > > udev/devtmpfs for its initramfs and thuse vgscan --mknodes needs to > > recreate the devicenodes for already activated volume groups, and I am > > somewhat afraid that the same issue may exist for the stuff I am currently > > playing with. > > First, udev without devtmpfs cannot work reliably. And udev is preferred way > how to create device nodes for lvm in recent versions. > Gentoo uses udev on devtmpfs as standard if the kernel has devtmpfs enabled. However the initrd uses as mentioned before mdev from busybox instead. > And udev in initramfs is known to work, the pivot root switch and > persistence of udev database after remount is also solved so nodes > should not disappear. > When I experiment with Gentoo/genkernel I found that if I use devtmpfs instead of mdev, then it seems like the device nodes does not disappear. > (I hope one day all this system boot thing will be handled better and > lvm will not need to scan for new devices itself so the whole internal > device cache disappears. Current state is still kind of compromise.) > Mee too.;) > Milan Thanks for your comments, I think I start to get the idea of how this thing works. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-01-28 8:53 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-01-27 9:37 [linux-lvm] lvm, config and commandline xake 2011-01-27 16:24 ` Milan Broz 2011-01-27 17:55 ` xake 2011-01-27 21:34 ` Milan Broz 2011-01-28 8:53 ` Peter Hjalmarsson
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