Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

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Hi, 

I am going to start throwing these diagrams out to the mailing list and see if I can get any feedback.  This attached figure dives into user configuration.  Any and all discussion, correction, suggestions are welcome. 

Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rifenbark, Scott M
>Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:22 AM
>To: Paul Eggleton; Burton, Ross
>Subject: user configuration
>
>Paul and Ross,
>
>Attached is a sample figure that focuses on "User Configuration."  The
>illustration attempts to reveal where user configuration data comes from
>and what processes and user-driven commands are related to it.  Right
>now, BitBake is simply a box.
>
>If you can, give me some comments on this.  I would like to hear on
>level of detail as well as technical accuracy.
>
>Thanks,
>Scott
>
>Scott Rifenbark
>Intel Corporation
>Yocto Project Documentation
>503.712.2702
>503.341.0418 (cell)


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Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Jerrod Peach]

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Scott,

I think the general diagram looks pretty good, although I'd argue there's a
little too much detail in the file list being shown, or else some of this
new stuff is going to be useful in 1.5 when it's not doing anything in 1.4.
 Here are the files I see as excessive:

In meta-yocto:

   - local.conf.example.extended
   - site.conf.sample
   - auto.conf (That's not even present in my 1.4 workspace.  Is this going
   to be something new in 1.5?)

In the build directory (these files aren't even present for me in 1.4):

   - site.conf
   - auto.conf

Also, I don't see anything specifying machines.  Do you want to break that
out here, or are you thinking that's going to come into play somewhere
else?  If you're thinking of breaking out machines elsewhere, I'd argue
that distros are on a similar level of detail and then also don't belong on
this chart.

Kind regards,

Jerrod


On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M <
scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am going to start throwing these diagrams out to the mailing list and
> see if I can get any feedback.  This attached figure dives into user
> configuration.  Any and all discussion, correction, suggestions are welcome.
>
> Scott
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Rifenbark, Scott M
> >Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:22 AM
> >To: Paul Eggleton; Burton, Ross
> >Subject: user configuration
> >
> >Paul and Ross,
> >
> >Attached is a sample figure that focuses on "User Configuration."  The
> >illustration attempts to reveal where user configuration data comes from
> >and what processes and user-driven commands are related to it.  Right
> >now, BitBake is simply a box.
> >
> >If you can, give me some comments on this.  I would like to hear on
> >level of detail as well as technical accuracy.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Scott
> >
> >Scott Rifenbark
> >Intel Corporation
> >Yocto Project Documentation
> >503.712.2702
> >503.341.0418 (cell)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>
>

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Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Philip Balister]

On 06/23/2013 11:52 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> I am going to start throwing these diagrams out to the mailing list and see if I can get any feedback.  This attached figure dives into user configuration.  Any and all discussion, correction, suggestions are welcome. 

It appears the diagram says that the oe-init-build-env script creates
the files in the users conf dir from the meta-yocto layer. These files
(and the script) are in meta. This diagram creates the misleading idea
that the meta-yocto layer is mandatory in order to create a working build.

Philip

> 
> Scott
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rifenbark, Scott M
>> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:22 AM
>> To: Paul Eggleton; Burton, Ross
>> Subject: user configuration
>>
>> Paul and Ross,
>>
>> Attached is a sample figure that focuses on "User Configuration."  The
>> illustration attempts to reveal where user configuration data comes from
>> and what processes and user-driven commands are related to it.  Right
>> now, BitBake is simply a box.
>>
>> If you can, give me some comments on this.  I would like to hear on
>> level of detail as well as technical accuracy.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott
>>
>> Scott Rifenbark
>> Intel Corporation
>> Yocto Project Documentation
>> 503.712.2702
>> 503.341.0418 (cell)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Burton, Ross]

On 24 June 2013 13:59, Jerrod Peach <peachj@lexmark.com> wrote:
> auto.conf (That's not even present in my 1.4 workspace.  Is this going to be
> something new in 1.5?)

auto.conf is read along with site.conf and local.conf, and is intended
to be automatically created and maintained by autobuilders.  That's
why you don't have it locally.

(I only discovered about this file when we were talking about inputs last week)

Ross

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

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Jerrod,

Thanks for the feedback in this area.  Your observations are pretty much in line with what I got from Paul Eggleton, who is on the YP Team.  I am going to reduce what is revealed file-wise in the meta-yocto layer.  Turns out that auto.conf and site.conf are files that a user would have to hand-create if they even wanted them.  We happen to provide a sample for site.conf only.  The auto.conf file would be a file that could be created and written to by an autobuilder.  The auto.conf file could contain settings that would be similar to what you would see in a local.conf file.  My understanding is that it exists mainly for autobuilders to stuff things into.  I will note this in the section I'm developing here for this configuration stuff.

Machine, distro, and policies and all that type of configuration is going to be covered in my next little submission that talks about layers and their role regarding what they feed into the whole process.

Thanks,
Scott

From: Jerrod Peach [mailto:peachj@lexmark.com]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 6:00 AM
To: Rifenbark, Scott M
Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

Scott,

I think the general diagram looks pretty good, although I'd argue there's a little too much detail in the file list being shown, or else some of this new stuff is going to be useful in 1.5 when it's not doing anything in 1.4.  Here are the files I see as excessive:

In meta-yocto:

  *   local.conf.example.extended
  *   site.conf.sample
  *   auto.conf (That's not even present in my 1.4 workspace.  Is this going to be something new in 1.5?)
In the build directory (these files aren't even present for me in 1.4):

  *   site.conf
  *   auto.conf
Also, I don't see anything specifying machines.  Do you want to break that out here, or are you thinking that's going to come into play somewhere else?  If you're thinking of breaking out machines elsewhere, I'd argue that distros are on a similar level of detail and then also don't belong on this chart.

Kind regards,

Jerrod

On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M <scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com<mailto:scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com>> wrote:
Hi,

I am going to start throwing these diagrams out to the mailing list and see if I can get any feedback.  This attached figure dives into user configuration.  Any and all discussion, correction, suggestions are welcome.

Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rifenbark, Scott M
>Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:22 AM
>To: Paul Eggleton; Burton, Ross
>Subject: user configuration
>
>Paul and Ross,
>
>Attached is a sample figure that focuses on "User Configuration."  The
>illustration attempts to reveal where user configuration data comes from
>and what processes and user-driven commands are related to it.  Right
>now, BitBake is simply a box.
>
>If you can, give me some comments on this.  I would like to hear on
>level of detail as well as technical accuracy.
>
>Thanks,
>Scott
>
>Scott Rifenbark
>Intel Corporation
>Yocto Project Documentation
>503.712.2702<tel:503.712.2702>
>503.341.0418<tel:503.341.0418> (cell)


_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
yocto@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto


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Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

What I was trying to convey here is that oe-init-build-env draws on some files in the meta-yocto layer.  The script oe-init-build-env is in the poky repository (or refered to as "Source Directory" in the documentation).  The sample files are in the meta-yocto layer.  I thought the meta-yocto layer was needed... maybe I am wrong.  Can I get more clarification on this?

Thanks,
Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Philip Balister [mailto:philip@balister.org]
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 6:15 AM
>To: Rifenbark, Scott M
>Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>detail - user configuration
>
>On 06/23/2013 11:52 PM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am going to start throwing these diagrams out to the mailing list
>and see if I can get any feedback.  This attached figure dives into user
>configuration.  Any and all discussion, correction, suggestions are
>welcome.
>
>It appears the diagram says that the oe-init-build-env script creates
>the files in the users conf dir from the meta-yocto layer. These files
>(and the script) are in meta. This diagram creates the misleading idea
>that the meta-yocto layer is mandatory in order to create a working
>build.
>
>Philip
>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rifenbark, Scott M
>>> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:22 AM
>>> To: Paul Eggleton; Burton, Ross
>>> Subject: user configuration
>>>
>>> Paul and Ross,
>>>
>>> Attached is a sample figure that focuses on "User Configuration."
>The
>>> illustration attempts to reveal where user configuration data comes
>from
>>> and what processes and user-driven commands are related to it.  Right
>>> now, BitBake is simply a box.
>>>
>>> If you can, give me some comments on this.  I would like to hear on
>>> level of detail as well as technical accuracy.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> Scott Rifenbark
>>> Intel Corporation
>>> Yocto Project Documentation
>>> 503.712.2702
>>> 503.341.0418 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> yocto mailing list
>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:

> What I was trying to convey here is that oe-init-build-env draws on
> some files in the meta-yocto layer.  The script oe-init-build-env is
> in the poky repository (or refered to as "Source Directory" in the
> documentation).  The sample files are in the meta-yocto layer.  I
> thought the meta-yocto layer was needed... maybe I am wrong.  Can I
> get more clarification on this?

  i regularly build images without any "*yocto*"-named layer, unless
i'm misunderstanding the issue here.

rday

-- 

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                                 Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
                        http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn:                               http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
========================================================================

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Burton, Ross]

On 24 June 2013 15:47, Robert P. J. Day <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
>
>> What I was trying to convey here is that oe-init-build-env draws on
>> some files in the meta-yocto layer.  The script oe-init-build-env is
>> in the poky repository (or refered to as "Source Directory" in the
>> documentation).  The sample files are in the meta-yocto layer.  I
>> thought the meta-yocto layer was needed... maybe I am wrong.  Can I
>> get more clarification on this?
>
>   i regularly build images without any "*yocto*"-named layer, unless
> i'm misunderstanding the issue here.

meta-yocto is what makes Poky Poky, otherwise it would be just oe-core
+ bitbake.  oe-init-build-env looks for sample files in $TEMPLATECONF,
which is one of the things that get munged as
bitbake+oe-core+meta-yocto becomes poky.

Ross

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

My figure is for Yocto Project documentation so I am going to show that oe-init-build-env gets information from meta-yocto.  I understand that OE-Core sample files are in "meta".  There is a single oe-init-build-env script and it looks in one of two places.

Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Burton, Ross [mailto:ross.burton@intel.com]
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:57 AM
>To: Robert P. J. Day
>Cc: Rifenbark, Scott M; yocto@yoctoproject.org
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>detail - user configuration
>
>On 24 June 2013 15:47, Robert P. J. Day <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
>>
>>> What I was trying to convey here is that oe-init-build-env draws on
>>> some files in the meta-yocto layer.  The script oe-init-build-env is
>>> in the poky repository (or refered to as "Source Directory" in the
>>> documentation).  The sample files are in the meta-yocto layer.  I
>>> thought the meta-yocto layer was needed... maybe I am wrong.  Can I
>>> get more clarification on this?
>>
>>   i regularly build images without any "*yocto*"-named layer, unless
>> i'm misunderstanding the issue here.
>
>meta-yocto is what makes Poky Poky, otherwise it would be just oe-core
>+ bitbake.  oe-init-build-env looks for sample files in $TEMPLATECONF,
>which is one of the things that get munged as
>bitbake+oe-core+meta-yocto becomes poky.
>
>Ross

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Philip Balister]

On 06/24/2013 11:08 AM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
> My figure is for Yocto Project documentation so I am going to show that oe-init-build-env gets information from meta-yocto.  I understand that OE-Core sample files are in "meta".  There is a single oe-init-build-env script and it looks in one of two places.

Actually, the script is in two places, the root level of a poky checkout
and in the oe-core directory.

Explaining how poky is built up from oe-core + meta-yocto +
meta-yocto-bsp + some other stuff would be really helpful in reducing
confusion over what all the pieces are and where they come from.

Philip

> 
> Scott
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Burton, Ross [mailto:ross.burton@intel.com]
>> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:57 AM
>> To: Robert P. J. Day
>> Cc: Rifenbark, Scott M; yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>> detail - user configuration
>>
>> On 24 June 2013 15:47, Robert P. J. Day <rpjday@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I was trying to convey here is that oe-init-build-env draws on
>>>> some files in the meta-yocto layer.  The script oe-init-build-env is
>>>> in the poky repository (or refered to as "Source Directory" in the
>>>> documentation).  The sample files are in the meta-yocto layer.  I
>>>> thought the meta-yocto layer was needed... maybe I am wrong.  Can I
>>>> get more clarification on this?
>>>
>>>   i regularly build images without any "*yocto*"-named layer, unless
>>> i'm misunderstanding the issue here.
>>
>> meta-yocto is what makes Poky Poky, otherwise it would be just oe-core
>> + bitbake.  oe-init-build-env looks for sample files in $TEMPLATECONF,
>> which is one of the things that get munged as
>> bitbake+oe-core+meta-yocto becomes poky.
>>
>> Ross
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 
> 

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Burton, Ross]

On 24 June 2013 17:55, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
> Explaining how poky is built up from oe-core + meta-yocto +
> meta-yocto-bsp + some other stuff would be really helpful in reducing
> confusion over what all the pieces are and where they come from.

Agreed - explaining clearly that Poky is mostly an aggregation of
existing repositories and not actually canonical upstream for anything
is probably a good move, as this is clearly misunderstood by many
people.

Ross

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Ok - I was told there was just a single version of oe-init-build-env.  So that must be not quite right.  What I will likely do is in the supporting text for the figure get into some detail on just where these pieces are.  That would be a good opportunity to maybe present some text around that.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Philip Balister [mailto:philip@balister.org]
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 9:56 AM
>To: Rifenbark, Scott M
>Cc: Burton, Ross; Robert P. J. Day; yocto@yoctoproject.org
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>detail - user configuration
>
>On 06/24/2013 11:08 AM, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
>> My figure is for Yocto Project documentation so I am going to show
>that oe-init-build-env gets information from meta-yocto.  I understand
>that OE-Core sample files are in "meta".  There is a single oe-init-
>build-env script and it looks in one of two places.
>
>Actually, the script is in two places, the root level of a poky checkout
>and in the oe-core directory.
>
>Explaining how poky is built up from oe-core + meta-yocto +
>meta-yocto-bsp + some other stuff would be really helpful in reducing
>confusion over what all the pieces are and where they come from.
>
>Philip
>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Burton, Ross [mailto:ross.burton@intel.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:57 AM
>>> To: Robert P. J. Day
>>> Cc: Rifenbark, Scott M; yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>> Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>>> detail - user configuration
>>>
>>> On 24 June 2013 15:47, Robert P. J. Day <rpjday@crashcourse.ca>
>wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Rifenbark, Scott M wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What I was trying to convey here is that oe-init-build-env draws on
>>>>> some files in the meta-yocto layer.  The script oe-init-build-env
>is
>>>>> in the poky repository (or refered to as "Source Directory" in the
>>>>> documentation).  The sample files are in the meta-yocto layer.  I
>>>>> thought the meta-yocto layer was needed... maybe I am wrong.  Can I
>>>>> get more clarification on this?
>>>>
>>>>   i regularly build images without any "*yocto*"-named layer, unless
>>>> i'm misunderstanding the issue here.
>>>
>>> meta-yocto is what makes Poky Poky, otherwise it would be just oe-
>core
>>> + bitbake.  oe-init-build-env looks for sample files in
>$TEMPLATECONF,
>>> which is one of the things that get munged as
>>> bitbake+oe-core+meta-yocto becomes poky.
>>>
>>> Ross
>> _______________________________________________
>> yocto mailing list
>> yocto@yoctoproject.org
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>>
>>

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Philip Balister]

On 06/24/2013 12:59 PM, Burton, Ross wrote:
> On 24 June 2013 17:55, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
>> Explaining how poky is built up from oe-core + meta-yocto +
>> meta-yocto-bsp + some other stuff would be really helpful in reducing
>> confusion over what all the pieces are and where they come from.
> 
> Agreed - explaining clearly that Poky is mostly an aggregation of
> existing repositories and not actually canonical upstream for anything
> is probably a good move, as this is clearly misunderstood by many
> people.

Showing how Poky (the reference distribution) is built would be a nice
way to introduce people to building their own custom distributions using
OpenEmbedded.

Philip

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Jeff Osier-Mixon]

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
> Showing how Poky (the reference distribution) is built would be a nice
> way to introduce people to building their own custom distributions using
> OpenEmbedded.

Totally agree, but I would relegate that to a separate effort. The
main problem with diagrams like this is trying to squeeze in too much
information in order to preserve completeness, at the expense of
clarity. It would be more ideal to start with a very simple diagram,
then move on to other diagrams to zoom in on pertinent detail. It is a
delicate balancing act. In this case, I would say to put "how Poky is
built" into the 3rd or 4th diagram in a series.

I'm glad to see this conversation happening!

--
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Philip Balister]

On 06/24/2013 02:37 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
>> Showing how Poky (the reference distribution) is built would be a nice
>> way to introduce people to building their own custom distributions using
>> OpenEmbedded.
> 
> Totally agree, but I would relegate that to a separate effort. The
> main problem with diagrams like this is trying to squeeze in too much
> information in order to preserve completeness, at the expense of
> clarity. It would be more ideal to start with a very simple diagram,
> then move on to other diagrams to zoom in on pertinent detail. It is a
> delicate balancing act. In this case, I would say to put "how Poky is
> built" into the 3rd or 4th diagram in a series.
> 
> I'm glad to see this conversation happening!

I totally agree we drifted way beyond the initial discussion of the
figure. The key thought here is understanding how Poky differs from a
typical use of oe-core + other layers.

Philip

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

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Everyone, 

Thanks for the discussion on user configuration.  It is good that ideas are being shared and more information is being revealed.  I am attaching the next revision of the user configuration figure.  I am moving on to the rest of the "left-side" of the inputs for the overall YP development figure that appears on the YP Quick Start.  That will deal with metadata (.bb and patches), layers, machine configurations, and distro configurations (policy settings).  

Feel free to comment on the user configuration stuff in this email.  

Thanks,
Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-
>bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Philip Balister
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 5:39 PM
>To: Jeff Osier-Mixon
>Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>detail - user configuration
>
>On 06/24/2013 02:37 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Philip Balister
><philip@balister.org> wrote:
>>> Showing how Poky (the reference distribution) is built would be a
>nice
>>> way to introduce people to building their own custom distributions
>using
>>> OpenEmbedded.
>>
>> Totally agree, but I would relegate that to a separate effort. The
>> main problem with diagrams like this is trying to squeeze in too much
>> information in order to preserve completeness, at the expense of
>> clarity. It would be more ideal to start with a very simple diagram,
>> then move on to other diagrams to zoom in on pertinent detail. It is a
>> delicate balancing act. In this case, I would say to put "how Poky is
>> built" into the 3rd or 4th diagram in a series.
>>
>> I'm glad to see this conversation happening!
>
>I totally agree we drifted way beyond the initial discussion of the
>figure. The key thought here is understanding how Poky differs from a
>typical use of oe-core + other layers.
>
>Philip
>_______________________________________________
>yocto mailing list
>yocto@yoctoproject.org
>https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

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Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Burton, Ross]

On 25 June 2013 01:39, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
> I totally agree we drifted way beyond the initial discussion of the
> figure. The key thought here is understanding how Poky differs from a
> typical use of oe-core + other layers.

Is there such a thing as a "typical" use of oe-core + layers?  Poky
uses a custom tool (combo-layer, in oe-core/scripts) to merge the
layers into a single repo.  You could also use git submodules to make
a single repo (such as Guacamayo), or git subtree merges, or use repo
(gumstix), or have a script that manages the fetching of multiple
layers (Angstrom).

Ross

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Khem Raj]

On Jun 24, 2013, at 7:57 AM, "Burton, Ross" <ross.burton@intel.com> wrote:

> meta-yocto is what makes Poky Poky, otherwise it would be just oe-core
> + bitbake.  oe-init-build-env looks for sample files in $TEMPLATECONF,
> which is one of the things that get munged as
> bitbake+oe-core+meta-yocto becomes poky.

yeah, meta-yocto could have been better name meta-poky that would have aligned the name
a bit. Its a distro layer much like other distro layers out there on layerindex and then there is meta-yocto-bsp
layers which is much like any other machine layers out there.
a difference to point out is that poky uses the tooling to fudge all layers together and create a single view
and is a leading user of combo-layer tooling provided by OE-Core. Other distros keep the layers intact
slugos e.g. uses git submodules to maintain its layer setup. angstrom has home-brew toolings and so on an so
forth. Both approaches have its own merits.

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Thanks Khem for this extra insight.

Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-
>bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Khem Raj
>Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 12:59 PM
>To: Burton, Ross
>Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>detail - user configuration
>
>
>On Jun 24, 2013, at 7:57 AM, "Burton, Ross" <ross.burton@intel.com>
>wrote:
>
>> meta-yocto is what makes Poky Poky, otherwise it would be just oe-core
>> + bitbake.  oe-init-build-env looks for sample files in $TEMPLATECONF,
>> which is one of the things that get munged as
>> bitbake+oe-core+meta-yocto becomes poky.
>
>yeah, meta-yocto could have been better name meta-poky that would have
>aligned the name
>a bit. Its a distro layer much like other distro layers out there on
>layerindex and then there is meta-yocto-bsp
>layers which is much like any other machine layers out there.
>a difference to point out is that poky uses the tooling to fudge all
>layers together and create a single view
>and is a leading user of combo-layer tooling provided by OE-Core. Other
>distros keep the layers intact
>slugos e.g. uses git submodules to maintain its layer setup. angstrom
>has home-brew toolings and so on an so
>forth. Both approaches have its own merits.
>_______________________________________________
>yocto mailing list
>yocto@yoctoproject.org
>https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Here is a link to draft section on the user configuration block of the YP Development Environment work.  Check this out and provide feedback for appropriate level of detail, usefulness, missing info, ect.  This draft section, once we settle on it, will set the tone and level for the remaining detailed sections that make up the general environment diagram.  

http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.5/ref-manual/ref-manual.html#a-closer-look-at-the-yocto-project-development-environment

Thanks, 
Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-
>bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Burton, Ross
>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:55 AM
>To: Philip Balister
>Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>detail - user configuration
>
>On 25 June 2013 01:39, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
>> I totally agree we drifted way beyond the initial discussion of the
>> figure. The key thought here is understanding how Poky differs from a
>> typical use of oe-core + other layers.
>
>Is there such a thing as a "typical" use of oe-core + layers?  Poky
>uses a custom tool (combo-layer, in oe-core/scripts) to merge the
>layers into a single repo.  You could also use git submodules to make
>a single repo (such as Guacamayo), or git subtree merges, or use repo
>(gumstix), or have a script that manages the fetching of multiple
>layers (Angstrom).
>
>Ross
>_______________________________________________
>yocto mailing list
>yocto@yoctoproject.org
>https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Stewart, David C]

On 7/8/13 10:54 PM, "Rifenbark, Scott M" <scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com>
wrote:

>Here is a link to draft section on the user configuration block of the YP
>Development Environment work.  Check this out and provide feedback for
>appropriate level of detail, usefulness, missing info, ect.  This draft
>section, once we settle on it, will set the tone and level for the
>remaining detailed sections that make up the general environment diagram.
> 
>
>http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.5/ref-manual/ref-manual.html#a-closer-l
>ook-at-the-yocto-project-development-environment

I think it will look really good.

Would it make sense to adopt some kind of notation for when a directory is
a "source" vs "destination" type directory? For example, in the diagram
you have there, maybe color the source and destination directory boxes
differently or use hashed lines vs solid? Not sure it will be clear or
confusing once you get into more examples.

Also, it's a nit, but I think oe-init-build-env only creates the Build
Directory if it doesn't already exist.

>
>Thanks, 
>Scott
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-
>>bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Burton, Ross
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:55 AM
>>To: Philip Balister
>>Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>>detail - user configuration
>>
>>On 25 June 2013 01:39, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
>>> I totally agree we drifted way beyond the initial discussion of the
>>> figure. The key thought here is understanding how Poky differs from a
>>> typical use of oe-core + other layers.
>>
>>Is there such a thing as a "typical" use of oe-core + layers?  Poky
>>uses a custom tool (combo-layer, in oe-core/scripts) to merge the
>>layers into a single repo.  You could also use git submodules to make
>>a single repo (such as Guacamayo), or git subtree merges, or use repo
>>(gumstix), or have a script that manages the fetching of multiple
>>layers (Angstrom).
>>
>>Ross
>>_______________________________________________
>>yocto mailing list
>>yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

Re: Documenting YP Development Environment in more detail - user configuration

[Rifenbark, Scott M]

Dave, 

Thanks for the comments and the suggestions.  I think the color/style convention is a good idea.  I will play around with that.   I will also not that fact about the build directory. 

Scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Stewart, David C
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:51 AM
>To: Rifenbark, Scott M
>Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>detail - user configuration
>
>
>
>On 7/8/13 10:54 PM, "Rifenbark, Scott M" <scott.m.rifenbark@intel.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Here is a link to draft section on the user configuration block of the
>YP
>>Development Environment work.  Check this out and provide feedback for
>>appropriate level of detail, usefulness, missing info, ect.  This draft
>>section, once we settle on it, will set the tone and level for the
>>remaining detailed sections that make up the general environment
>diagram.
>>
>>
>>http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.5/ref-manual/ref-manual.html#a-
>closer-l
>>ook-at-the-yocto-project-development-environment
>
>I think it will look really good.
>
>Would it make sense to adopt some kind of notation for when a directory
>is
>a "source" vs "destination" type directory? For example, in the diagram
>you have there, maybe color the source and destination directory boxes
>differently or use hashed lines vs solid? Not sure it will be clear or
>confusing once you get into more examples.
>
>Also, it's a nit, but I think oe-init-build-env only creates the Build
>Directory if it doesn't already exist.
>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Scott
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-
>>>bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Burton, Ross
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:55 AM
>>>To: Philip Balister
>>>Cc: yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>Subject: Re: [yocto] Documenting YP Development Environment in more
>>>detail - user configuration
>>>
>>>On 25 June 2013 01:39, Philip Balister <philip@balister.org> wrote:
>>>> I totally agree we drifted way beyond the initial discussion of the
>>>> figure. The key thought here is understanding how Poky differs from
>a
>>>> typical use of oe-core + other layers.
>>>
>>>Is there such a thing as a "typical" use of oe-core + layers?  Poky
>>>uses a custom tool (combo-layer, in oe-core/scripts) to merge the
>>>layers into a single repo.  You could also use git submodules to make
>>>a single repo (such as Guacamayo), or git subtree merges, or use repo
>>>(gumstix), or have a script that manages the fetching of multiple
>>>layers (Angstrom).
>>>
>>>Ross
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>yocto mailing list
>>>yocto@yoctoproject.org
>>>https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto