DVB Simulcrypt

DVB Simulcrypt

[Rudy Zijlstra]

Dears (Hans?)

My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working 
good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the networks 
are being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto only 
to simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.

Current status:
- when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
- when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer works.

I suspect the problem is that the wrong keys are used: Nagra keys in 
stead of Irdeto keys.

I do not know whether:
- kernel issue (is simulcrypt supported?)
- API issue (is all support in place to select the right key stream?)
- application issue (does the application allow to set the right CA?)

If this is an application issue, could it be solved by setting the API 
outside the application, to direct it to the right (Irdeto in my case) 
encryption?

The application i am using is MythTV.


Cheers


Rudy

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Rudy Zijlstra]

Some more info

On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
> Dears (Hans?)
>
> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working 
> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the 
> networks are being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from 
> irdeto only to simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>
> Current status:
> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer works.
Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on 
the smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on 
all channels tested.

>
> I suspect the problem is that the wrong keys are used: Nagra keys in 
> stead of Irdeto keys.
>
> I do not know whether:
> - kernel issue (is simulcrypt supported?)
> - API issue (is all support in place to select the right key stream?)
> - application issue (does the application allow to set the right CA?)
>
> If this is an application issue, could it be solved by setting the API 
> outside the application, to direct it to the right (Irdeto in my case) 
> encryption?
>
> The application i am using is MythTV.
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Rudy
> -- 
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Rudy Zijlstra]

On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
> Hi Rudy.
>
> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org <mailto:rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>>:
> >
> > Some more info
> >
> > On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
> >>
> >> Dears (Hans?)
> >>
> >> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was 
> working good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the 
> networks are being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from 
> irdeto only to simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
> >>
> >> Current status:
> >> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
> >> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer 
> works.
> >
> > Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions 
> on the smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does 
> work, on all channels tested.
> >
>
> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>
> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
> later on?

Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the 
second tuner descrambling no longer works

Cheers


Rudy
>
> /Honza
>
> >

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Honza Petrouš]

2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>
> Hi Rudy.
>
> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>
>> Some more info
>>
>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>
>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>
>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working
>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the networks are
>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto only to
>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>
>>> Current status:
>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer works.
>>
>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on the
>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
>> channels tested.
>>
>
> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>
> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
> later on?
>
>
> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the second
> tuner descrambling no longer works
>

I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux setup changes,
but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
To eliminate
the particular change inside one service only.

Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
(fail in parsing
PMT CA descriptors etc).

TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.

/Honza

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Rudy Zijlstra]

On 23-02-15 12:21, Honza Petrouš wrote:
> 2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rudy.
>>
>> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>> Some more info
>>>
>>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>>
>>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working
>>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the networks are
>>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto only to
>>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>>
>>>> Current status:
>>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer works.
>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on the
>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
>>> channels tested.
>>>
>> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
>> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
>> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>>
>> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
>> later on?
>>
>>
>> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the second
>> tuner descrambling no longer works
>>
> I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux setup changes,
> but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
> To eliminate
> the particular change inside one service only.
>
> Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
> (fail in parsing
> PMT CA descriptors etc).
>
> TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.
>
See above:

Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on the
smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
channels tested.

additional finfo: i tested the same channel(s) on all 3 tuners. For now i have re-configured mythtv to use only the second tuner for encrypted channels.
This does reduce scheduling flexibility though.

Would to understand what makes the difference, so i can ask the right questions to MythTV developers.


As the decryption does work with 1 tuner, i see 2 options:
- depending on tuner id the default CA descriptor used is different, and this selection is not expoerted on API level (kernel issue)
- application needs to select which CA to use (and currently does not do this)


Cheers


Rudy

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Tycho Lürsen]

Op 23-02-15 om 13:44 schreef Rudy Zijlstra:
> On 23-02-15 12:21, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>> 2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rudy.
>>>
>>> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>> Some more info
>>>>
>>>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>>>
>>>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working
>>>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the 
>>>>> networks are
>>>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto 
>>>>> only to
>>>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current status:
>>>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer 
>>>>> works.
>>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions 
>>>> on the
>>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on 
>>>> all
>>>> channels tested.
>>>>
>>> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
>>> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
>>> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>>>
>>> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
>>> later on?
>>>
>>>
>>> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the 
>>> second
>>> tuner descrambling no longer works
>>>
>> I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux setup 
>> changes,
>> but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
>> To eliminate
>> the particular change inside one service only.
>>
>> Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
>> (fail in parsing
>> PMT CA descriptors etc).
>>
>> TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.
>>
> See above:
>
> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on 
> the
> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
> channels tested.
>
> additional finfo: i tested the same channel(s) on all 3 tuners. For 
> now i have re-configured mythtv to use only the second tuner for 
> encrypted channels.
> This does reduce scheduling flexibility though.
>
> Would to understand what makes the difference, so i can ask the right 
> questions to MythTV developers.
>
>
> As the decryption does work with 1 tuner, i see 2 options:
> - depending on tuner id the default CA descriptor used is different, 
> and this selection is not expoerted on API level (kernel issue)
> - application needs to select which CA to use (and currently does not 
> do this)
>
It should be the latter one. I'm also having  Ziggo for provider, but 
always used FFdecsawrapper/Oscam for decryption (also legal in The 
Netherlands, providing you have a paid subscription)
ECM CA system id's 0x604 or 0x602 (depending on your region) gets you 
Irdeto, while ECM CA system id's 0x1850 or 0x1801 get you Nagra.
Correctly configured FFdecsa/Oscam can deal with it, MythTV probably cannot.
Check it out at: 
http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/?guid=0BE90D25-BA46-7B93-FDCD-20EFC79691E0
That's a snapshot from today, monitored from Groningen.

Cheers,

Tycho.

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Honza Petrouš]

2015-02-23 13:44 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
> On 23-02-15 12:21, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>
>> 2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>
>>> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rudy.
>>>
>>> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra
>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>
>>>> Some more info
>>>>
>>>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>>>
>>>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working
>>>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the networks
>>>>> are
>>>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto only to
>>>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current status:
>>>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer
>>>>> works.
>>>>
>>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on
>>>> the
>>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
>>>> channels tested.
>>>>
>>> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
>>> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
>>> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>>>
>>> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
>>> later on?
>>>
>>>
>>> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the
>>> second
>>> tuner descrambling no longer works
>>>
>> I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux setup
>> changes,
>> but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
>> To eliminate
>> the particular change inside one service only.
>>
>> Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
>> (fail in parsing
>> PMT CA descriptors etc).
>>
>> TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.
>>
> See above:
>
> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on the
> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
> channels tested.
>
> additional finfo: i tested the same channel(s) on all 3 tuners. For now i
> have re-configured mythtv to use only the second tuner for encrypted
> channels.
> This does reduce scheduling flexibility though.
>
> Would to understand what makes the difference, so i can ask the right
> questions to MythTV developers.
>
>
> As the decryption does work with 1 tuner, i see 2 options:
> - depending on tuner id the default CA descriptor used is different, and
> this selection is not expoerted on API level (kernel issue)
> - application needs to select which CA to use (and currently does not do
> this)
>

The kernel has no any possibility to break descrambling by CI-CAM
as CI-CAM (usually/in more cases) is connected BEFORE TS input.
The kernel only talk with CI-CAM by driver, but the message payload
sent to the Ci-CAM is controlled by application.

I think it must be MythTV issue. Please check if PMT is parsed
correctly and the correct CAId is used (as already noted Tycho,
Irdeto CAId is 06xx and Nagra is 18xx).

BTW, you can check which CAId is supported by your smartcard from CI-CAM
menu.

/Honza

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Rudy Zijlstra]

On 23-02-15 15:21, Tycho Lürsen wrote:
>
> Op 23-02-15 om 13:44 schreef Rudy Zijlstra:
>> On 23-02-15 12:21, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>> 2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Rudy.
>>>>
>>>> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
>>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>> Some more info
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was 
>>>>>> working
>>>>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the 
>>>>>> networks are
>>>>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto 
>>>>>> only to
>>>>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Current status:
>>>>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>>>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no 
>>>>>> longer works.
>>>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same 
>>>>> permissions on the
>>>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, 
>>>>> on all
>>>>> channels tested.
>>>>>
>>>> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
>>>> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
>>>> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>>>>
>>>> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
>>>> later on?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the 
>>>> second
>>>> tuner descrambling no longer works
>>>>
>>> I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux 
>>> setup changes,
>>> but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
>>> To eliminate
>>> the particular change inside one service only.
>>>
>>> Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
>>> (fail in parsing
>>> PMT CA descriptors etc).
>>>
>>> TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.
>>>
>> See above:
>>
>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions 
>> on the
>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
>> channels tested.
>>
>> additional finfo: i tested the same channel(s) on all 3 tuners. For 
>> now i have re-configured mythtv to use only the second tuner for 
>> encrypted channels.
>> This does reduce scheduling flexibility though.
>>
>> Would to understand what makes the difference, so i can ask the right 
>> questions to MythTV developers.
>>
>>
>> As the decryption does work with 1 tuner, i see 2 options:
>> - depending on tuner id the default CA descriptor used is different, 
>> and this selection is not expoerted on API level (kernel issue)
>> - application needs to select which CA to use (and currently does not 
>> do this)
>>
> It should be the latter one. I'm also having  Ziggo for provider, but 
> always used FFdecsawrapper/Oscam for decryption (also legal in The 
> Netherlands, providing you have a paid subscription)
> ECM CA system id's 0x604 or 0x602 (depending on your region) gets you 
> Irdeto, while ECM CA system id's 0x1850 or 0x1801 get you Nagra.
> Correctly configured FFdecsa/Oscam can deal with it, MythTV probably 
> cannot.
> Check it out at: 
> http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/?guid=0BE90D25-BA46-7B93-FDCD-20EFC79691E0
> That's a snapshot from today, monitored from Groningen.
>
Tycho,

thanks. looking at http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/ziggo-limburg the CA id 
for Iredeto are same in Limburg as in Groningen.

And yes, my CAM's are for Irdeto and do not support Nagra. To my 
knowledge no valid Nagra CAM do exist for DVB-C

Can FFdecsawrapper/Oscam be used in combination with MythTV?

Cheers


Rudy

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Tycho Lürsen]

Op 23-02-15 om 16:51 schreef Rudy Zijlstra:
> On 23-02-15 15:21, Tycho Lürsen wrote:
>>
>> Op 23-02-15 om 13:44 schreef Rudy Zijlstra:
>>> On 23-02-15 12:21, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>> 2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
>>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Rudy.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
>>>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>>> Some more info
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>>>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was 
>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the 
>>>>>>> networks are
>>>>>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto 
>>>>>>> only to
>>>>>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Current status:
>>>>>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>>>>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no 
>>>>>>> longer works.
>>>>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same 
>>>>>> permissions on the
>>>>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, 
>>>>>> on all
>>>>>> channels tested.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
>>>>> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
>>>>> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
>>>>> later on?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for 
>>>>> the second
>>>>> tuner descrambling no longer works
>>>>>
>>>> I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux 
>>>> setup changes,
>>>> but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
>>>> To eliminate
>>>> the particular change inside one service only.
>>>>
>>>> Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
>>>> (fail in parsing
>>>> PMT CA descriptors etc).
>>>>
>>>> TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.
>>>>
>>> See above:
>>>
>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions 
>>> on the
>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
>>> channels tested.
>>>
>>> additional finfo: i tested the same channel(s) on all 3 tuners. For 
>>> now i have re-configured mythtv to use only the second tuner for 
>>> encrypted channels.
>>> This does reduce scheduling flexibility though.
>>>
>>> Would to understand what makes the difference, so i can ask the 
>>> right questions to MythTV developers.
>>>
>>>
>>> As the decryption does work with 1 tuner, i see 2 options:
>>> - depending on tuner id the default CA descriptor used is different, 
>>> and this selection is not expoerted on API level (kernel issue)
>>> - application needs to select which CA to use (and currently does 
>>> not do this)
>>>
>> It should be the latter one. I'm also having  Ziggo for provider, but 
>> always used FFdecsawrapper/Oscam for decryption (also legal in The 
>> Netherlands, providing you have a paid subscription)
>> ECM CA system id's 0x604 or 0x602 (depending on your region) gets you 
>> Irdeto, while ECM CA system id's 0x1850 or 0x1801 get you Nagra.
>> Correctly configured FFdecsa/Oscam can deal with it, MythTV probably 
>> cannot.
>> Check it out at: 
>> http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/?guid=0BE90D25-BA46-7B93-FDCD-20EFC79691E0
>> That's a snapshot from today, monitored from Groningen.
>>
> Tycho,
>
> thanks. looking at http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/ziggo-limburg the CA 
> id for Iredeto are same in Limburg as in Groningen.
>
> And yes, my CAM's are for Irdeto and do not support Nagra. To my 
> knowledge no valid Nagra CAM do exist for DVB-C
>
> Can FFdecsawrapper/Oscam be used in combination with MythTV?
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Rudy
Sure it can, I've been using it for many years with MythTV, up until 
now. Ziggo does not encrypt any channel that I'm actually using anymore.
As for the setup, I do know what I'm talking about, I've been the 
maintainer of FFdecsawrapper for about 3 years now.
For basic instructions (a how-to) look at my wiki pages:
http://www.lursen.org/wiki/FFdecsawrapper_with_MythTV_and_Oscam_on_Debian/Ubuntu
http://www.lursen.org/wiki/Speciaal:AllePaginas

Aren't we lucky to live in The Netherlands? (I mean in the US we'd 
probably be imprisoned for even mentioning the subject)

Tycho

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Honza Petrouš]

2015-02-23 16:51 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
> On 23-02-15 15:21, Tycho Lürsen wrote:
>>
>>
>> Op 23-02-15 om 13:44 schreef Rudy Zijlstra:
>>>
>>> On 23-02-15 12:21, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra
>>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Rudy.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra
>>>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some more info
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working
>>>>>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the
>>>>>>> networks are
>>>>>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto only
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Current status:
>>>>>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>>>>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer
>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> channels tested.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
>>>>> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
>>>>> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
>>>>> later on?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the
>>>>> second
>>>>> tuner descrambling no longer works
>>>>>
>>>> I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux setup
>>>> changes,
>>>> but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
>>>> To eliminate
>>>> the particular change inside one service only.
>>>>
>>>> Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
>>>> (fail in parsing
>>>> PMT CA descriptors etc).
>>>>
>>>> TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.
>>>>
>>> See above:
>>>
>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on
>>> the
>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
>>> channels tested.
>>>
>>> additional finfo: i tested the same channel(s) on all 3 tuners. For now i
>>> have re-configured mythtv to use only the second tuner for encrypted
>>> channels.
>>> This does reduce scheduling flexibility though.
>>>
>>> Would to understand what makes the difference, so i can ask the right
>>> questions to MythTV developers.
>>>
>>>
>>> As the decryption does work with 1 tuner, i see 2 options:
>>> - depending on tuner id the default CA descriptor used is different, and
>>> this selection is not expoerted on API level (kernel issue)
>>> - application needs to select which CA to use (and currently does not do
>>> this)
>>>
>> It should be the latter one. I'm also having  Ziggo for provider, but
>> always used FFdecsawrapper/Oscam for decryption (also legal in The
>> Netherlands, providing you have a paid subscription)
>> ECM CA system id's 0x604 or 0x602 (depending on your region) gets you
>> Irdeto, while ECM CA system id's 0x1850 or 0x1801 get you Nagra.
>> Correctly configured FFdecsa/Oscam can deal with it, MythTV probably
>> cannot.
>> Check it out at:
>> http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/?guid=0BE90D25-BA46-7B93-FDCD-20EFC79691E0
>> That's a snapshot from today, monitored from Groningen.
>>
> Tycho,
>
> thanks. looking at http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/ziggo-limburg the CA id for
> Iredeto are same in Limburg as in Groningen.
>
> And yes, my CAM's are for Irdeto and do not support Nagra. To my knowledge
> no valid Nagra CAM do exist for DVB-C
>

I'm a bit fossil regarding current status of CA in DVB but anyway I can say
I know that some years ago existed CI-CAM modules for Nagra, it was
in time of so-called Nagra2 introduction on Hispasat ;)

Dunno how is the current situation.

An second - it has no difference if it is for sattelite or cable variant
of DVB. The CI-CAM standard is the same. The only problem
can be if support for particular provider is "baked" inside (meaning
only particular auth data are inserted).

/Honza

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Tycho Lürsen]

Op 23-02-15 om 20:56 schreef Honza Petrouš:
> 2015-02-23 16:51 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>> On 23-02-15 15:21, Tycho Lürsen wrote:
>>>
>>> Op 23-02-15 om 13:44 schreef Rudy Zijlstra:
>>>> On 23-02-15 12:21, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>>> 2015-02-23 11:31 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra
>>>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>>> On 23-02-15 08:44, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Rudy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-02-22 16:28 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra
>>>>>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>>>>>> Some more info
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21-02-15 22:30, Rudy Zijlstra wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dears (Hans?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My setup, where the cable operator was using only irdeto, was working
>>>>>>>> good. Then the cable operator merged with another, and now the
>>>>>>>> networks are
>>>>>>>> being merged. As a result, the encryption has moved from irdeto only
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> simulcyrpt with Irdeto and Nagra.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Current status:
>>>>>>>> - when i put the CA card in a STB, it works
>>>>>>>> - when trying to record an encrypted channel from PC, it no longer
>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> channels tested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does it mean that descrambling is not working for you? If so,
>>>>>> how do you manage descrambling? By CI-CAM module
>>>>>> or by some "softcam" like oscam?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or do you record ENCRYPTED stream and decrypt the recordings
>>>>>> later on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Each tuner has its own legal CI-CAM module. And yes, except for the
>>>>>> second
>>>>>> tuner descrambling no longer works
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not much familiar with MythTV, so I'm guessing from the mux setup
>>>>> changes,
>>>>> but did you check to descramble the same channel on different tuners?
>>>>> To eliminate
>>>>> the particular change inside one service only.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course there can be also software issue in CI-CAM module itself
>>>>> (fail in parsing
>>>>> PMT CA descriptors etc).
>>>>>
>>>>> TBH, I think it must be application layer issue, not kernel one.
>>>>>
>>>> See above:
>>>>
>>>> Recording system has 3 tuners. All equal, all with same permissions on
>>>> the
>>>> smartcard. On cards 0 and 2 does not work, but card 1 does work, on all
>>>> channels tested.
>>>>
>>>> additional finfo: i tested the same channel(s) on all 3 tuners. For now i
>>>> have re-configured mythtv to use only the second tuner for encrypted
>>>> channels.
>>>> This does reduce scheduling flexibility though.
>>>>
>>>> Would to understand what makes the difference, so i can ask the right
>>>> questions to MythTV developers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As the decryption does work with 1 tuner, i see 2 options:
>>>> - depending on tuner id the default CA descriptor used is different, and
>>>> this selection is not expoerted on API level (kernel issue)
>>>> - application needs to select which CA to use (and currently does not do
>>>> this)
>>>>
>>> It should be the latter one. I'm also having  Ziggo for provider, but
>>> always used FFdecsawrapper/Oscam for decryption (also legal in The
>>> Netherlands, providing you have a paid subscription)
>>> ECM CA system id's 0x604 or 0x602 (depending on your region) gets you
>>> Irdeto, while ECM CA system id's 0x1850 or 0x1801 get you Nagra.
>>> Correctly configured FFdecsa/Oscam can deal with it, MythTV probably
>>> cannot.
>>> Check it out at:
>>> http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/?guid=0BE90D25-BA46-7B93-FDCD-20EFC79691E0
>>> That's a snapshot from today, monitored from Groningen.
>>>
>> Tycho,
>>
>> thanks. looking at http://www.dtvmonitor.com/nl/ziggo-limburg the CA id for
>> Iredeto are same in Limburg as in Groningen.
>>
>> And yes, my CAM's are for Irdeto and do not support Nagra. To my knowledge
>> no valid Nagra CAM do exist for DVB-C
>>
> I'm a bit fossil regarding current status of CA in DVB but anyway I can say
> I know that some years ago existed CI-CAM modules for Nagra, it was
> in time of so-called Nagra2 introduction on Hispasat ;)
>
> Dunno how is the current situation.
>
> An second - it has no difference if it is for sattelite or cable variant
> of DVB. The CI-CAM standard is the same. The only problem
> can be if support for particular provider is "baked" inside (meaning
> only particular auth data are inserted).
>
> /Honza
Thanks for the input Honza, but where we live, we are forced to use 
Irdeto. Moreover, such a Nagra CAM would not eliminate the supposed 
inability of MythTV to point (while tuning&locking) to the right CA 
descriptor in a reliable way.
Tycho

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Rudy Zijlstra]

On 23-02-15 20:56, Honza Petrouš wrote:
> 2015-02-23 16:51 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>> And yes, my CAM's are for Irdeto and do not support Nagra. To my 
>> knowledge no valid Nagra CAM do exist for DVB-C 
> I'm a bit fossil regarding current status of CA in DVB but anyway I can say
> I know that some years ago existed CI-CAM modules for Nagra, it was
> in time of so-called Nagra2 introduction on Hispasat ;)
>
> Dunno how is the current situation.
>
> An second - it has no difference if it is for sattelite or cable variant
> of DVB. The CI-CAM standard is the same. The only problem
> can be if support for particular provider is "baked" inside (meaning
> only particular auth data are inserted).
>
>
The point is that although from standard point of view you are right, no 
cable operator has ever wanted to support Nagra CAM. As a result the 
needed CAM authorization is not present.

CI+ is a different story. Would need to check if CI+ is available in PC 
card form now. Kind of doubt that though. Do not expect Nagra wil 
support such development (refuse to validate).

Cheers


Rudy

Re: DVB Simulcrypt

[Tycho Lürsen]

Op 23-02-15 om 22:29 schreef Rudy Zijlstra:
> On 23-02-15 20:56, Honza Petrouš wrote:
>> 2015-02-23 16:51 GMT+01:00 Rudy Zijlstra 
>> <rudy@grumpydevil.homelinux.org>:
>>> And yes, my CAM's are for Irdeto and do not support Nagra. To my 
>>> knowledge no valid Nagra CAM do exist for DVB-C 
>> I'm a bit fossil regarding current status of CA in DVB but anyway I 
>> can say
>> I know that some years ago existed CI-CAM modules for Nagra, it was
>> in time of so-called Nagra2 introduction on Hispasat ;)
>>
>> Dunno how is the current situation.
>>
>> An second - it has no difference if it is for sattelite or cable variant
>> of DVB. The CI-CAM standard is the same. The only problem
>> can be if support for particular provider is "baked" inside (meaning
>> only particular auth data are inserted).
>>
>>
> The point is that although from standard point of view you are right, 
> no cable operator has ever wanted to support Nagra CAM. As a result 
> the needed CAM authorization is not present.
>
> CI+ is a different story. Would need to check if CI+ is available in 
> PC card form now. Kind of doubt that though. Do not expect Nagra wil 
> support such development (refuse to validate).
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Rudy
Spare your time: no CI for PC is available that supports the bogus CI+ 
standard. And thus no driver for that too. So all you need is a simple 
cardreader like the Smargo+ (but make sure you get an original one, not 
a cheap clone that seemingly is the real deal)

Cheers,
Tycho