Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

Hello everyone,

I've been looking into updating oe-core's aging web engine/browser 
combo, and want to give you a heads up about what's going to happen:

1) webkit-gtk engine will be updated to latest stable upstream release 
(2.8.3 which is providing Webkit2 API and is a Gtk3 port)

2) midori browser will be replaced with Epiphany browser from the Gnome 
project. The reason is that the latest release of midori still defaults 
to Webkit1 and gtk2, a new version of midori is in development, but is a 
major rewrite with no target release date and is far from ready at the 
moment (from looking at the list of open issues).

The downside to this is extra bloat and dependencies, but I can't see 
any other way we can provide a modern client stack for the web. Having a 
browser is important nowadays for any kiosk-type device with a 
touchscreen, because that's how UIs are written.

Regards,
Alex

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Andreas Müller]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Alexander Kanavin
<alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've been looking into updating oe-core's aging web engine/browser combo,
> and want to give you a heads up about what's going to happen:
>
> 1) webkit-gtk engine will be updated to latest stable upstream release
> (2.8.3 which is providing Webkit2 API and is a Gtk3 port)
>
> 2) midori browser will be replaced with Epiphany browser from the Gnome
> project. The reason is that the latest release of midori still defaults to
> Webkit1 and gtk2, a new version of midori is in development, but is a major
> rewrite with no target release date and is far from ready at the moment
> (from looking at the list of open issues).
>
> The downside to this is extra bloat and dependencies, but I can't see any
> other way we can provide a modern client stack for the web. Having a browser
> is important nowadays for any kiosk-type device with a touchscreen, because
> that's how UIs are written.
>
So we are loosing last working browser around - what get's better
except later is greater?

Andreas

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Andreas Müller]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Alexander Kanavin
<alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've been looking into updating oe-core's aging web engine/browser combo,
> and want to give you a heads up about what's going to happen:
>
> 1) webkit-gtk engine will be updated to latest stable upstream release
> (2.8.3 which is providing Webkit2 API and is a Gtk3 port)
>
> 2) midori browser will be replaced with Epiphany browser from the Gnome
> project. The reason is that the latest release of midori still defaults to
> Webkit1 and gtk2, a new version of midori is in development, but is a major
> rewrite with no target release date and is far from ready at the moment
> (from looking at the list of open issues).
>
> The downside to this is extra bloat and dependencies, but I can't see any
> other way we can provide a modern client stack for the web. Having a browser
> is important nowadays for any kiosk-type device with a touchscreen, because
> that's how UIs are written.
>
So we are loosing last working browser around - what get's better
except later is greater?

Andreas

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Burton, Ross]

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On 15 June 2015 at 12:53, Andreas Müller <schnitzeltony@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> So we are loosing last working browser around - what get's better
> except later is greater?
>

If you actually compare the build dependencies, you'll see that Midori and
Epiphany are actually almost identical.

We need to upgrade WebKit as the release we're shipping has known security
flaws and is very old - and the community is rightly moaning about that.
However Midori doesn't build with a recent WebKit... if you have an
alternative solution then your thoughts are welcome.

Ross

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Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Burton, Ross]

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On 15 June 2015 at 12:53, Andreas Müller <schnitzeltony@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> So we are loosing last working browser around - what get's better
> except later is greater?
>

If you actually compare the build dependencies, you'll see that Midori and
Epiphany are actually almost identical.

We need to upgrade WebKit as the release we're shipping has known security
flaws and is very old - and the community is rightly moaning about that.
However Midori doesn't build with a recent WebKit... if you have an
alternative solution then your thoughts are welcome.

Ross

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Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Burton, Ross]

On 15 June 2015 at 12:53, Andreas Müller <schnitzeltony@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> So we are loosing last working browser around - what get's better
> except later is greater?
>

If you actually compare the build dependencies, you'll see that Midori and
Epiphany are actually almost identical.

We need to upgrade WebKit as the release we're shipping has known security
flaws and is very old - and the community is rightly moaning about that.
However Midori doesn't build with a recent WebKit... if you have an
alternative solution then your thoughts are welcome.

Ross

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/15/2015 05:24 PM, Burton, Ross wrote:

> If you actually compare the build dependencies, you'll see that Midori
> and Epiphany are actually almost identical.
>
> We need to upgrade WebKit as the release we're shipping has known
> security flaws and is very old - and the community is rightly moaning
> about that.  However Midori doesn't build with a recent WebKit... if you
> have an alternative solution then your thoughts are welcome.

Also, Webkit2 itself ships with a tiny browser wrapper called MiniBrowser:

http://blogs.igalia.com/carlosgc/2011/11/04/webkit2-gtk-minibrowser-ported-to-gtk-api/

That may be enough for many people's needs, and they can simply not 
include Epiphany into their images if it's too big and bloated or whatever.


Alex

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/15/2015 05:24 PM, Burton, Ross wrote:

> If you actually compare the build dependencies, you'll see that Midori
> and Epiphany are actually almost identical.
>
> We need to upgrade WebKit as the release we're shipping has known
> security flaws and is very old - and the community is rightly moaning
> about that.  However Midori doesn't build with a recent WebKit... if you
> have an alternative solution then your thoughts are welcome.

Also, Webkit2 itself ships with a tiny browser wrapper called MiniBrowser:

http://blogs.igalia.com/carlosgc/2011/11/04/webkit2-gtk-minibrowser-ported-to-gtk-api/

That may be enough for many people's needs, and they can simply not 
include Epiphany into their images if it's too big and bloated or whatever.


Alex

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Andreas Müller]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Alexander Kanavin
<alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> On 06/15/2015 05:24 PM, Burton, Ross wrote:
>
>> If you actually compare the build dependencies, you'll see that Midori
>> and Epiphany are actually almost identical.
>>
>> We need to upgrade WebKit as the release we're shipping has known
>> security flaws and is very old - and the community is rightly moaning
>> about that.  However Midori doesn't build with a recent WebKit... if you
>> have an alternative solution then your thoughts are welcome.
>
>
> Also, Webkit2 itself ships with a tiny browser wrapper called MiniBrowser:
>
> http://blogs.igalia.com/carlosgc/2011/11/04/webkit2-gtk-minibrowser-ported-to-gtk-api/
>
> That may be enough for many people's needs, and they can simply not include
> Epiphany into their images if it's too big and bloated or whatever.
>
>
How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:

* gtk2/webkit1
* gtk3/webkit2

Andreas

[1] http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/webkitgtk.git/tree/webkitgtk.spec
[2] http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/webkitgtk3.git/tree/webkitgtk3.spec

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Andreas Müller]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Alexander Kanavin
<alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> On 06/15/2015 05:24 PM, Burton, Ross wrote:
>
>> If you actually compare the build dependencies, you'll see that Midori
>> and Epiphany are actually almost identical.
>>
>> We need to upgrade WebKit as the release we're shipping has known
>> security flaws and is very old - and the community is rightly moaning
>> about that.  However Midori doesn't build with a recent WebKit... if you
>> have an alternative solution then your thoughts are welcome.
>
>
> Also, Webkit2 itself ships with a tiny browser wrapper called MiniBrowser:
>
> http://blogs.igalia.com/carlosgc/2011/11/04/webkit2-gtk-minibrowser-ported-to-gtk-api/
>
> That may be enough for many people's needs, and they can simply not include
> Epiphany into their images if it's too big and bloated or whatever.
>
>
How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:

* gtk2/webkit1
* gtk3/webkit2

Andreas

[1] http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/webkitgtk.git/tree/webkitgtk.spec
[2] http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/webkitgtk3.git/tree/webkitgtk3.spec

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/16/2015 09:50 AM, Andreas Müller wrote:

> How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
> of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:
>
> * gtk2/webkit1
> * gtk3/webkit2

Before showing how, you need to explain why. Fedora has to package 
webkit1 because they have a lot of apps in the Gnome stack that still 
haven't been ported to webkit2. Oe-core on the other hand has only one 
such app: midori.

Also, webkit1 has been deprecated for years, and there is no commitment 
from upstream to maintain the 2.4.x series which is the last that still 
has it in the source tree; they may cease to do it at any moment. So 
once again, why keep it in oe-core?

Regards,
Alex

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/16/2015 09:50 AM, Andreas Müller wrote:

> How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
> of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:
>
> * gtk2/webkit1
> * gtk3/webkit2

Before showing how, you need to explain why. Fedora has to package 
webkit1 because they have a lot of apps in the Gnome stack that still 
haven't been ported to webkit2. Oe-core on the other hand has only one 
such app: midori.

Also, webkit1 has been deprecated for years, and there is no commitment 
from upstream to maintain the 2.4.x series which is the last that still 
has it in the source tree; they may cease to do it at any moment. So 
once again, why keep it in oe-core?

Regards,
Alex

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Andreas Müller]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Alexander Kanavin
<alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> On 06/16/2015 09:50 AM, Andreas Müller wrote:
>
>> How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
>> of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:
>>
>> * gtk2/webkit1
>> * gtk3/webkit2
>
>
> Before showing how, you need to explain why. Fedora has to package webkit1
> because they have a lot of apps in the Gnome stack that still haven't been
> ported to webkit2. Oe-core on the other hand has only one such app: midori.
Yes and midori is the only working browser in Yocto (I know): firefox
crashes since very long time for illegal ARM instruction and chromium
does not start at all.

I suggest we stop discussing my comment: You continue updating
webkitgtk and I'll try to get a working browser.

Andreas

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Andreas Müller]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Alexander Kanavin
<alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> On 06/16/2015 09:50 AM, Andreas Müller wrote:
>
>> How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
>> of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:
>>
>> * gtk2/webkit1
>> * gtk3/webkit2
>
>
> Before showing how, you need to explain why. Fedora has to package webkit1
> because they have a lot of apps in the Gnome stack that still haven't been
> ported to webkit2. Oe-core on the other hand has only one such app: midori.
Yes and midori is the only working browser in Yocto (I know): firefox
crashes since very long time for illegal ARM instruction and chromium
does not start at all.

I suggest we stop discussing my comment: You continue updating
webkitgtk and I'll try to get a working browser.

Andreas

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Gary Thomas]

On 2015-06-16 07:27, Andreas Müller wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Alexander Kanavin
> <alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>> On 06/16/2015 09:50 AM, Andreas Müller wrote:
>>
>>> How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
>>> of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:
>>>
>>> * gtk2/webkit1
>>> * gtk3/webkit2
>>
>>
>> Before showing how, you need to explain why. Fedora has to package webkit1
>> because they have a lot of apps in the Gnome stack that still haven't been
>> ported to webkit2. Oe-core on the other hand has only one such app: midori.
> Yes and midori is the only working browser in Yocto (I know): firefox
> crashes since very long time for illegal ARM instruction and chromium
> does not start at all.

What platform are you using?  Are you building these from meta-browser?

I routinely use both firefox and chromium on ARM (i.MX6) with no problems.

>
> I suggest we stop discussing my comment: You continue updating
> webkitgtk and I'll try to get a working browser.
>
> Andreas
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Thomas                 |  Consulting for the
MLB Associates              |    Embedded world
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Andreas Müller]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Gary Thomas <gary@mlbassoc.com> wrote:
> On 2015-06-16 07:27, Andreas Müller wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Alexander Kanavin
>> <alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/16/2015 09:50 AM, Andreas Müller wrote:
>>>
>>>> How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
>>>> of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:
>>>>
>>>> * gtk2/webkit1
>>>> * gtk3/webkit2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Before showing how, you need to explain why. Fedora has to package
>>> webkit1
>>> because they have a lot of apps in the Gnome stack that still haven't
>>> been
>>> ported to webkit2. Oe-core on the other hand has only one such app:
>>> midori.
>>
>> Yes and midori is the only working browser in Yocto (I know): firefox
>> crashes since very long time for illegal ARM instruction and chromium
>> does not start at all.
>
>
> What platform are you using?  Are you building these from meta-browser?
>
> I routinely use both firefox and chromium on ARM (i.MX6) with no problems.
Hmm - I was wondering why nobody took care.

All my plattforms fail:
* i.MX6 base
* gumstix
* raspberry Pi2

I'll put this browser issue on my TODO currently I have no further
time to take care.

Andreas

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/16/2015 04:27 PM, Andreas Müller wrote:

> Yes and midori is the only working browser in Yocto (I know): firefox
> crashes since very long time for illegal ARM instruction and chromium
> does not start at all.

Latest epiphany will be provided as a replacement for midori. It works 
fine here in the core-image-sato under qemu. I can't promise it will 
work on ARM, but any ARM-specific issues are almost certainly in 
webkit's (or other web engine's) javascript JIT code and have nothing to 
do with the browser.

Alex

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/16/2015 04:27 PM, Andreas Müller wrote:

> Yes and midori is the only working browser in Yocto (I know): firefox
> crashes since very long time for illegal ARM instruction and chromium
> does not start at all.

Latest epiphany will be provided as a replacement for midori. It works 
fine here in the core-image-sato under qemu. I can't promise it will 
work on ARM, but any ARM-specific issues are almost certainly in 
webkit's (or other web engine's) javascript JIT code and have nothing to 
do with the browser.

Alex

Re: [oe] [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/16/2015 04:37 PM, Alexander Kanavin wrote:
> Latest epiphany will be provided as a replacement for midori. It
> works fine here in the core-image-sato under qemu. I can't promise it
> will work on ARM, but any ARM-specific issues are almost certainly
> in webkit's (or other web engine's) javascript JIT code and have
> nothing to do with the browser.

Oh, and with webkit it's trivial to disable JIT at compile time; in fact
I have to do it for ARMv5 and ARMv6 because it has bitrotten for those
architectures due to lack of upstream testing.

Alex

Re: [oe] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/16/2015 04:37 PM, Alexander Kanavin wrote:
> Latest epiphany will be provided as a replacement for midori. It
> works fine here in the core-image-sato under qemu. I can't promise it
> will work on ARM, but any ARM-specific issues are almost certainly
> in webkit's (or other web engine's) javascript JIT code and have
> nothing to do with the browser.

Oh, and with webkit it's trivial to disable JIT at compile time; in fact
I have to do it for ARMv5 and ARMv6 because it has bitrotten for those
architectures due to lack of upstream testing.

Alex

Re: [OE-core] Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Alexander Kanavin]

On 06/16/2015 04:37 PM, Alexander Kanavin wrote:
> Latest epiphany will be provided as a replacement for midori. It
> works fine here in the core-image-sato under qemu. I can't promise it
> will work on ARM, but any ARM-specific issues are almost certainly
> in webkit's (or other web engine's) javascript JIT code and have
> nothing to do with the browser.

Oh, and with webkit it's trivial to disable JIT at compile time; in fact
I have to do it for ARMv5 and ARMv6 because it has bitrotten for those
architectures due to lack of upstream testing.

Alex

Re: Webkit-gtk will be updated to latest upstream; midori browser to be replaced with Epiphany

[Gary Thomas]

On 2015-06-16 07:36, Andreas Müller wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Gary Thomas <gary@mlbassoc.com> wrote:
>> On 2015-06-16 07:27, Andreas Müller wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Alexander Kanavin
>>> <alexander.kanavin@linux.intel.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 06/16/2015 09:50 AM, Andreas Müller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How about doing same as others do e.g fedora [1-2]: Keep two version
>>>>> of webkit-gtk based on same recent code:
>>>>>
>>>>> * gtk2/webkit1
>>>>> * gtk3/webkit2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Before showing how, you need to explain why. Fedora has to package
>>>> webkit1
>>>> because they have a lot of apps in the Gnome stack that still haven't
>>>> been
>>>> ported to webkit2. Oe-core on the other hand has only one such app:
>>>> midori.
>>>
>>> Yes and midori is the only working browser in Yocto (I know): firefox
>>> crashes since very long time for illegal ARM instruction and chromium
>>> does not start at all.
>>
>>
>> What platform are you using?  Are you building these from meta-browser?
>>
>> I routinely use both firefox and chromium on ARM (i.MX6) with no problems.
> Hmm - I was wondering why nobody took care.
>
> All my plattforms fail:
> * i.MX6 base
> * gumstix
> * raspberry Pi2
>
> I'll put this browser issue on my TODO currently I have no further
> time to take care.

BTW, I just tested both chromium and firefox on the i.MX6Q and RPi2
and they worked just fine.  Built from meta-browser:0cc0419a

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Thomas                 |  Consulting for the
MLB Associates              |    Embedded world
------------------------------------------------------------