[!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

Hi all,

Given the email threads about kdbus this week from various community
members, I figured it would be good to let people know what was going on
with things at the moment.

We (David, Daniel, Djalal, and myself) do not need to rush anything and
will be delaying the kdbus merge request for another cycle.  There still
seems to be some disagreement and we are confident that with more time
to review this can be sorted out.  We have asked distributions to start
testing kdbus and have already gotten back valuable feedback from real
world testing.  We are incorporating that feedback, fixing bugs, and
optimizing some internal details which will all be part of the pull
request for the next release cycle.

Eric, I hope you can relax now and get some sleep :)

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Andy Lutomirski]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman
<gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Given the email threads about kdbus this week from various community
> members, I figured it would be good to let people know what was going on
> with things at the moment.
>
> We (David, Daniel, Djalal, and myself) do not need to rush anything and
> will be delaying the kdbus merge request for another cycle.  There still
> seems to be some disagreement and we are confident that with more time
> to review this can be sorted out.  We have asked distributions to start
> testing kdbus and have already gotten back valuable feedback from real
> world testing.  We are incorporating that feedback, fixing bugs, and
> optimizing some internal details which will all be part of the pull
> request for the next release cycle.

What's a good distro on which to poke at a full running system?
Fedora Rawhide seems to still build systemd with --disable-kdbus,
although I suppose that means that I could boot it with kdbus=1?

--Andy

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Tom Gundersen]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
> What's a good distro on which to poke at a full running system?

Fedora Rawhide is probably currently your best bet.

> Fedora Rawhide seems to still build systemd with --disable-kdbus,
> although I suppose that means that I could boot it with kdbus=1?

Correct.

Cheers,

Tom

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Richard Weinberger]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:36 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
>> What's a good distro on which to poke at a full running system?
>
> Fedora Rawhide is probably currently your best bet.
>
>> Fedora Rawhide seems to still build systemd with --disable-kdbus,
>> although I suppose that means that I could boot it with kdbus=1?
>
> Correct.

Does Fedora offer a RPM with systemd from git?
I wonder how to install a bleeding edge systemd in a sane way.
./configure && make && make install it a bit archaic.

-- 
Thanks,
//richard

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Andy Lutomirski]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
>> What's a good distro on which to poke at a full running system?
>
> Fedora Rawhide is probably currently your best bet.

I won't swear that all of the problems I'm seeing are 100% kdbus'
fault, but Rawhide, updated today, has serious problems with the kdbus
branch in Greg's char-misc tree.

Problem 1: Booting a kdbus-enabled kernel (CONFIG_KDBUS=y) causes gdm
to bail saying "oops, something went wrong" or whatever the useless
standard error message is.

I can work around problem 1 by booting with kdbus=1, but that's not
okay.  Unless this is limited to just some narrow range of Rawhide
versions, I don't think the kernel gets to make changes that break
userspace like that.  Maybe this is a kernel issue, not a user issue,
in which case it's not a big deal as long as it gets fixed.

Problem 2: Running 'sudo mount /mnt/share' from a terminal hangs the
whole graphical session hard.  This is repeatable.  /mnt/share is
virtfs, but I doubt that matters.

If I build exactly the same sources but set CONFIG_KDBUS=n, all is well.

I suspect that there are multiple issues here:

1. The current state of systemd's --disable-kdbus could be buggy.
kdbusfs still gets mounted but isn't set up and then things break.

2. mount generates a bunch of dbus traffic.  Apparently on the latest
char-misc kdbus tree with the latest Rawhide, it blows up somehow.

That's all from me until next week.

--Andy

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[David Herrmann]

Hi

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:39 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
> Problem 1: Booting a kdbus-enabled kernel (CONFIG_KDBUS=y) causes gdm
> to bail saying "oops, something went wrong" or whatever the useless
> standard error message is.
>
> I can work around problem 1 by booting with kdbus=1, but that's not
> okay.  Unless this is limited to just some narrow range of Rawhide
> versions, I don't think the kernel gets to make changes that break
> userspace like that.  Maybe this is a kernel issue, not a user issue,
> in which case it's not a big deal as long as it gets fixed.

You're saying booting with the same kernel but kdbus not compiled in works?

> Problem 2: Running 'sudo mount /mnt/share' from a terminal hangs the
> whole graphical session hard.  This is repeatable.  /mnt/share is
> virtfs, but I doubt that matters.

This is triggered by running through pam from outside the gfx-session
but on a shared VT. It's not directly related to kdbus, though. It's
fixed in systemd-git. As a workaround, you can remove pam_systemd from
the sudo/su pam config.

Thanks
David

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Richard Weinberger]

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:43 AM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:39 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
>> Problem 1: Booting a kdbus-enabled kernel (CONFIG_KDBUS=y) causes gdm
>> to bail saying "oops, something went wrong" or whatever the useless
>> standard error message is.
>>
>> I can work around problem 1 by booting with kdbus=1, but that's not
>> okay.  Unless this is limited to just some narrow range of Rawhide
>> versions, I don't think the kernel gets to make changes that break
>> userspace like that.  Maybe this is a kernel issue, not a user issue,
>> in which case it's not a big deal as long as it gets fixed.
>
> You're saying booting with the same kernel but kdbus not compiled in works?
>
>> Problem 2: Running 'sudo mount /mnt/share' from a terminal hangs the
>> whole graphical session hard.  This is repeatable.  /mnt/share is
>> virtfs, but I doubt that matters.
>
> This is triggered by running through pam from outside the gfx-session
> but on a shared VT. It's not directly related to kdbus, though. It's
> fixed in systemd-git. As a workaround, you can remove pam_systemd from
> the sudo/su pam config.

Just because I'm starring right now at similar issues, how can I run
systemd-git?
I fear to use a plain "make && make install" as I don't want to break my
distro's package management and I want to make sure that nothing from the
currently installed systemd influences the system.

-- 
Thanks,
//richard

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

On Fri, Jul 03, 2015 at 10:53:57AM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:43 AM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:39 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
> >> Problem 1: Booting a kdbus-enabled kernel (CONFIG_KDBUS=y) causes gdm
> >> to bail saying "oops, something went wrong" or whatever the useless
> >> standard error message is.
> >>
> >> I can work around problem 1 by booting with kdbus=1, but that's not
> >> okay.  Unless this is limited to just some narrow range of Rawhide
> >> versions, I don't think the kernel gets to make changes that break
> >> userspace like that.  Maybe this is a kernel issue, not a user issue,
> >> in which case it's not a big deal as long as it gets fixed.
> >
> > You're saying booting with the same kernel but kdbus not compiled in works?
> >
> >> Problem 2: Running 'sudo mount /mnt/share' from a terminal hangs the
> >> whole graphical session hard.  This is repeatable.  /mnt/share is
> >> virtfs, but I doubt that matters.
> >
> > This is triggered by running through pam from outside the gfx-session
> > but on a shared VT. It's not directly related to kdbus, though. It's
> > fixed in systemd-git. As a workaround, you can remove pam_systemd from
> > the sudo/su pam config.
> 
> Just because I'm starring right now at similar issues, how can I run
> systemd-git?
> I fear to use a plain "make && make install" as I don't want to break my
> distro's package management and I want to make sure that nothing from the
> currently installed systemd influences the system.

Use your distro's package management system to build a new systemd
package  based on just adding the single big patch diff from the last
release to the git head, or pick individual ones.  But really, this
isn't a kernel issue, you know how to build userspace distro packages...

greg k-h

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Richard Weinberger]

Am 03.07.2015 um 17:27 schrieb Greg Kroah-Hartman:
> On Fri, Jul 03, 2015 at 10:53:57AM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:43 AM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:39 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
>>>> Problem 1: Booting a kdbus-enabled kernel (CONFIG_KDBUS=y) causes gdm
>>>> to bail saying "oops, something went wrong" or whatever the useless
>>>> standard error message is.
>>>>
>>>> I can work around problem 1 by booting with kdbus=1, but that's not
>>>> okay.  Unless this is limited to just some narrow range of Rawhide
>>>> versions, I don't think the kernel gets to make changes that break
>>>> userspace like that.  Maybe this is a kernel issue, not a user issue,
>>>> in which case it's not a big deal as long as it gets fixed.
>>>
>>> You're saying booting with the same kernel but kdbus not compiled in works?
>>>
>>>> Problem 2: Running 'sudo mount /mnt/share' from a terminal hangs the
>>>> whole graphical session hard.  This is repeatable.  /mnt/share is
>>>> virtfs, but I doubt that matters.
>>>
>>> This is triggered by running through pam from outside the gfx-session
>>> but on a shared VT. It's not directly related to kdbus, though. It's
>>> fixed in systemd-git. As a workaround, you can remove pam_systemd from
>>> the sudo/su pam config.
>>
>> Just because I'm starring right now at similar issues, how can I run
>> systemd-git?
>> I fear to use a plain "make && make install" as I don't want to break my
>> distro's package management and I want to make sure that nothing from the
>> currently installed systemd influences the system.
> 
> Use your distro's package management system to build a new systemd
> package  based on just adding the single big patch diff from the last
> release to the git head, or pick individual ones.  But really, this
> isn't a kernel issue, you know how to build userspace distro packages...

I hoped some distros already offer such a package. Maybe Fedora?
Building packages is no fun nor trivial.

And IMHO this belongs here as systemd is the only user of kdbus and
kernel folks may want to give it a try.

Thanks,
//richard

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Andy Lutomirski]

On Jul 3, 2015 1:43 AM, "David Herrmann" <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:39 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
> > Problem 1: Booting a kdbus-enabled kernel (CONFIG_KDBUS=y) causes gdm
> > to bail saying "oops, something went wrong" or whatever the useless
> > standard error message is.
> >
> > I can work around problem 1 by booting with kdbus=1, but that's not
> > okay.  Unless this is limited to just some narrow range of Rawhide
> > versions, I don't think the kernel gets to make changes that break
> > userspace like that.  Maybe this is a kernel issue, not a user issue,
> > in which case it's not a big deal as long as it gets fixed.
>
> You're saying booting with the same kernel but kdbus not compiled in works?
>

Yes, exactly.

The bad boot gets a couple warnings about dbus names getting lost or
something like that.

> > Problem 2: Running 'sudo mount /mnt/share' from a terminal hangs the
> > whole graphical session hard.  This is repeatable.  /mnt/share is
> > virtfs, but I doubt that matters.
>
> This is triggered by running through pam from outside the gfx-session
> but on a shared VT. It's not directly related to kdbus, though. It's
> fixed in systemd-git. As a workaround, you can remove pam_systemd from
> the sudo/su pam config.
>

I'll try on Monday.  Or maybe someone will build a new systemd on Rawhide :)

--Andy

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Richard Weinberger]

Greg,

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman
<gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Given the email threads about kdbus this week from various community
> members, I figured it would be good to let people know what was going on
> with things at the moment.
>
> We (David, Daniel, Djalal, and myself) do not need to rush anything and
> will be delaying the kdbus merge request for another cycle.  There still
> seems to be some disagreement and we are confident that with more time
> to review this can be sorted out.  We have asked distributions to start
> testing kdbus and have already gotten back valuable feedback from real
> world testing.  We are incorporating that feedback, fixing bugs, and
> optimizing some internal details which will all be part of the pull
> request for the next release cycle.

I've started digging into current kdbus to understand the changes you made and
have a question.
Where does all the development happen?

For example your current tree contains the following commit:

commit f3adf84302fb4fdb6698cf129b96546b47e27d33
Author: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
Date:   Thu May 21 20:03:29 2015 +0200

    kdbus: skip mandatory items on negotiation

    The kdbus negotiation is used to figure out what items and flags an ioctl
    supports. It is highly impractical to pass in mandatory items when all we
    do is negotiation. Therefore, allow user-space to skip mandatory items if
    KDBUS_FLAG_NEGOTIATE is passed.

    Signed-off-by: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
    Acked-by: Daniel Mack <daniel@zonque.org>

Where was this patch posted to? Do you have mailinglist where one can follow the
discussions? As it carries an ACK there must be some review process.

-- 
Thanks,
//richard

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 04:10:27PM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote:
> Greg,
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman
> <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Given the email threads about kdbus this week from various community
> > members, I figured it would be good to let people know what was going on
> > with things at the moment.
> >
> > We (David, Daniel, Djalal, and myself) do not need to rush anything and
> > will be delaying the kdbus merge request for another cycle.  There still
> > seems to be some disagreement and we are confident that with more time
> > to review this can be sorted out.  We have asked distributions to start
> > testing kdbus and have already gotten back valuable feedback from real
> > world testing.  We are incorporating that feedback, fixing bugs, and
> > optimizing some internal details which will all be part of the pull
> > request for the next release cycle.
> 
> I've started digging into current kdbus to understand the changes you made and
> have a question.
> Where does all the development happen?
> 
> For example your current tree contains the following commit:
> 
> commit f3adf84302fb4fdb6698cf129b96546b47e27d33
> Author: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
> Date:   Thu May 21 20:03:29 2015 +0200
> 
>     kdbus: skip mandatory items on negotiation
> 
>     The kdbus negotiation is used to figure out what items and flags an ioctl
>     supports. It is highly impractical to pass in mandatory items when all we
>     do is negotiation. Therefore, allow user-space to skip mandatory items if
>     KDBUS_FLAG_NEGOTIATE is passed.
> 
>     Signed-off-by: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
>     Acked-by: Daniel Mack <daniel@zonque.org>
> 
> Where was this patch posted to?

There was a pull request that happened on the linux-kernel mailing list
with this patch in it, along with others.

thanks,

greg k-h

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Richard Weinberger]

Am 29.06.2015 um 17:45 schrieb Greg Kroah-Hartman:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 04:10:27PM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote:
>> Greg,
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman
>> <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Given the email threads about kdbus this week from various community
>>> members, I figured it would be good to let people know what was going on
>>> with things at the moment.
>>>
>>> We (David, Daniel, Djalal, and myself) do not need to rush anything and
>>> will be delaying the kdbus merge request for another cycle.  There still
>>> seems to be some disagreement and we are confident that with more time
>>> to review this can be sorted out.  We have asked distributions to start
>>> testing kdbus and have already gotten back valuable feedback from real
>>> world testing.  We are incorporating that feedback, fixing bugs, and
>>> optimizing some internal details which will all be part of the pull
>>> request for the next release cycle.
>>
>> I've started digging into current kdbus to understand the changes you made and
>> have a question.
>> Where does all the development happen?
>>
>> For example your current tree contains the following commit:
>>
>> commit f3adf84302fb4fdb6698cf129b96546b47e27d33
>> Author: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
>> Date:   Thu May 21 20:03:29 2015 +0200
>>
>>     kdbus: skip mandatory items on negotiation
>>
>>     The kdbus negotiation is used to figure out what items and flags an ioctl
>>     supports. It is highly impractical to pass in mandatory items when all we
>>     do is negotiation. Therefore, allow user-space to skip mandatory items if
>>     KDBUS_FLAG_NEGOTIATE is passed.
>>
>>     Signed-off-by: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
>>     Acked-by: Daniel Mack <daniel@zonque.org>
>>
>> Where was this patch posted to?
> 
> There was a pull request that happened on the linux-kernel mailing list
> with this patch in it, along with others.

I saw the pull request on LKML but not the patch. That's why I'm asking. :)

Thanks,
//richard

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[chunshan.zhu]

David's out tree modules kdbus tree


https://github.com/systemd/kdbus

On 06/29/2015 11:47 PM, Richard Weinberger wrote:
> Am 29.06.2015 um 17:45 schrieb Greg Kroah-Hartman:
>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 04:10:27PM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote:
>>> Greg,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman
>>> <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Given the email threads about kdbus this week from various community
>>>> members, I figured it would be good to let people know what was going on
>>>> with things at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> We (David, Daniel, Djalal, and myself) do not need to rush anything and
>>>> will be delaying the kdbus merge request for another cycle.  There still
>>>> seems to be some disagreement and we are confident that with more time
>>>> to review this can be sorted out.  We have asked distributions to start
>>>> testing kdbus and have already gotten back valuable feedback from real
>>>> world testing.  We are incorporating that feedback, fixing bugs, and
>>>> optimizing some internal details which will all be part of the pull
>>>> request for the next release cycle.
>>> I've started digging into current kdbus to understand the changes you made and
>>> have a question.
>>> Where does all the development happen?
>>>
>>> For example your current tree contains the following commit:
>>>
>>> commit f3adf84302fb4fdb6698cf129b96546b47e27d33
>>> Author: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
>>> Date:   Thu May 21 20:03:29 2015 +0200
>>>
>>>      kdbus: skip mandatory items on negotiation
>>>
>>>      The kdbus negotiation is used to figure out what items and flags an ioctl
>>>      supports. It is highly impractical to pass in mandatory items when all we
>>>      do is negotiation. Therefore, allow user-space to skip mandatory items if
>>>      KDBUS_FLAG_NEGOTIATE is passed.
>>>
>>>      Signed-off-by: David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>
>>>      Acked-by: Daniel Mack <daniel@zonque.org>
>>>
>>> Where was this patch posted to?
>> There was a pull request that happened on the linux-kernel mailing list
>> with this patch in it, along with others.
> I saw the pull request on LKML but not the patch. That's why I'm asking. :)
>
> Thanks,
> //richard
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Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Richard Weinberger]

Am 30.06.2015 um 03:06 schrieb chunshan.zhu:
> David's out tree modules kdbus tree
> 
> 
> https://github.com/systemd/kdbus

Thank you Chunshan, but this does not an answer to my questions.

Let's try again. ;)
Where does (or did?) the development happen?
Will it happen on LKML in future?
Is there a mailinglist?

The reason I'm asking is, reading the discussion behind
patches is very useful to understand them.
If a reviewer can see the path to a patch with all patch iterations
it can help to understand it better and faster.
Of course this is not a must, but *very* useful.

Thanks,
//richard

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[David Herrmann]

Hi

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at> wrote:
> Where does (or did?) the development happen?

So far development happened at conferences, on Freenode #kdbus, and in
personal meetings.

Thanks
David

Re: [!GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.2

[Steven Rostedt]

On Wed, Jul 01, 2015 at 05:55:47PM +0200, David Herrmann wrote:
> Hi
> 
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 8:29 AM, Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at> wrote:
> > Where does (or did?) the development happen?
> 
> So far development happened at conferences, on Freenode #kdbus, and in
> personal meetings.
> 

So the code is done there too?

For me, I discuss designs and such at conferences, IRC and in personal
meetings. But when I get down and code, I post my results to a mailing list
and ask for feedback. The nice thing about doing it this way is that it leaves
a historical archive and nice history of the development.

Again, as Richard stated. This isn't a must have, but a really nice to have.

-- Steve