* Re: u-boot & ZFS
2021-08-18 13:25 ` ChrisO
@ 2021-08-18 13:53 ` Tom Rini
2021-08-18 17:23 ` ChrisO
2021-08-18 14:07 ` Mark Kettenis
2021-08-18 14:12 ` Dimitri John Ledkov
2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Tom Rini @ 2021-08-18 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ChrisO; +Cc: Lukasz Majewski, u-boot
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On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 03:25:58PM +0200, ChrisO wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 12:26:11PM +0200, Lukasz Majewski wrote:
> > Hi ChrisO,
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 08:35:14PM -0400, Tom Rini wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 06:03:10PM +0200, ChrisO wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > >
> > > > > I searched for u-boot ZFS references and all I found was several
> > > > > years old, but I suppose u-boot can cope with ZFS. So, my
> > > > > question is: is it possible to boot Linux from ZFS or at least
> > > > > boot from let's say SD-card with ext4 FS and mount a ZFS volume
> > > > > as root filesystem? I had a look at Armbian, installed all
> > > > > needed, user-space and kernel modules. After booting from SD card
> > > > > I can use ZFS on attached SATA SSD w/o any problem. I also see
> > > > > ZFS libs and kernel modules in initrd, so it looks like the
> > > > > necessary things are there. Don't know where to start. I would be
> > > > > very thankful for any help.
> > > >
> > > > The general easy answer is to have /boot that is separate from the
> > > > rootfs and using a filesystem more commonly supported.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tom
> > >
> > > Sounds like: go away kid, play with your old toys ;-)
> > > I was doing it the traditional way for long time, now wanted to try
> > > something new. Isn't it how we progress? I came to this list hoping
> > > to get an answer to my question. I know, most of you on this list
> > > have more important things to do. But giving me some advice could
> > > possibly result in me giving something back.
> > >
> >
> > Similar question I saw on OpenEmbedded/Yocto ML recenly. The answer
> > there was that "ZFS or ZOL is _not_ [*] commonly used on embedded
> > systems, so no support was needed"
> >
> > If find this topic interesting, then the community will try to help
> > when you provide any patches for review.
> >
> > However, considering the above, it may be hard for any _exact_
> > guidelines.
> >
> >
> > Note:
> > [*] - Personally, I didn't saw any usage of ZFS on embedded systems.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Lukasz Majewski
> >
> > --
> >
> > DENX Software Engineering GmbH, Managing Director: Wolfgang Denk
> > HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
> > Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-59 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: lukma@denx.de
>
> Hallo Lukasz
>
> My system in question is not an embeded one. I just stated to play with an Odroid-HC4 and Armbian.
> It has two SATA connectors, boots from a SD card.
> All computer I use which have more than one disk connected are set-up with software RAID and LVM on top of it.
> ZFS has both build-in it's why I asked.
> Currently I have on this HC4 two partitions on each disk, the smaller ones are in RAID1 and host root FS, the bigger ones are in a mirrored Zpool. It works OK, it would be nicer to have just one filesystem, though.
>
> Still not sure, it can or cannot be done?
The answer is that yes, today we have zfs support in U-Boot. And it
would be great if someone wanted to actively test and maintain it. That
I had to double check just now that the patches you mentioned had been
merged should also speak to the potential state of the code.
--
Tom
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: u-boot & ZFS
2021-08-18 13:53 ` Tom Rini
@ 2021-08-18 17:23 ` ChrisO
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: ChrisO @ 2021-08-18 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Rini; +Cc: U-Boot Mailing List
On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 09:53:06AM -0400, Tom Rini wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 03:25:58PM +0200, ChrisO wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 12:26:11PM +0200, Lukasz Majewski wrote:
> > > Hi ChrisO,
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 08:35:14PM -0400, Tom Rini wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 06:03:10PM +0200, ChrisO wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I searched for u-boot ZFS references and all I found was several
> > > > > > years old, but I suppose u-boot can cope with ZFS. So, my
> > > > > > question is: is it possible to boot Linux from ZFS or at least
> > > > > > boot from let's say SD-card with ext4 FS and mount a ZFS volume
> > > > > > as root filesystem? I had a look at Armbian, installed all
> > > > > > needed, user-space and kernel modules. After booting from SD card
> > > > > > I can use ZFS on attached SATA SSD w/o any problem. I also see
> > > > > > ZFS libs and kernel modules in initrd, so it looks like the
> > > > > > necessary things are there. Don't know where to start. I would be
> > > > > > very thankful for any help.
> > > > >
> > > > > The general easy answer is to have /boot that is separate from the
> > > > > rootfs and using a filesystem more commonly supported.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like: go away kid, play with your old toys ;-)
> > > > I was doing it the traditional way for long time, now wanted to try
> > > > something new. Isn't it how we progress? I came to this list hoping
> > > > to get an answer to my question. I know, most of you on this list
> > > > have more important things to do. But giving me some advice could
> > > > possibly result in me giving something back.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Similar question I saw on OpenEmbedded/Yocto ML recenly. The answer
> > > there was that "ZFS or ZOL is _not_ [*] commonly used on embedded
> > > systems, so no support was needed"
> > >
> > > If find this topic interesting, then the community will try to help
> > > when you provide any patches for review.
> > >
> > > However, considering the above, it may be hard for any _exact_
> > > guidelines.
> > >
> > >
> > > Note:
> > > [*] - Personally, I didn't saw any usage of ZFS on embedded systems.
> > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Lukasz Majewski
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > DENX Software Engineering GmbH, Managing Director: Wolfgang Denk
> > > HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
> > > Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-59 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: lukma@denx.de
> >
> > Hallo Lukasz
> >
> > My system in question is not an embeded one. I just stated to play with an Odroid-HC4 and Armbian.
> > It has two SATA connectors, boots from a SD card.
> > All computer I use which have more than one disk connected are set-up with software RAID and LVM on top of it.
> > ZFS has both build-in it's why I asked.
> > Currently I have on this HC4 two partitions on each disk, the smaller ones are in RAID1 and host root FS, the bigger ones are in a mirrored Zpool. It works OK, it would be nicer to have just one filesystem, though.
> >
> > Still not sure, it can or cannot be done?
>
> The answer is that yes, today we have zfs support in U-Boot. And it
> would be great if someone wanted to actively test and maintain it. That
> I had to double check just now that the patches you mentioned had been
> merged should also speak to the potential state of the code.
>
> --
> Tom
Hi Tom
This is a great news!
I am a very old, retired Solaris/Linux admin I don't think I would be still able to dive into u-boot development.
Other than this, I would try to do my best to help.
Regards,
Chris
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: u-boot & ZFS
2021-08-18 13:25 ` ChrisO
2021-08-18 13:53 ` Tom Rini
@ 2021-08-18 14:07 ` Mark Kettenis
2021-08-18 14:12 ` Dimitri John Ledkov
2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mark Kettenis @ 2021-08-18 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ChrisO; +Cc: lukma, armbian, u-boot, trini
> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 15:25:58 +0200
> From: ChrisO <armbian@osk.ch>
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 12:26:11PM +0200, Lukasz Majewski wrote:
> > Hi ChrisO,
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 08:35:14PM -0400, Tom Rini wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 06:03:10PM +0200, ChrisO wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > >
> > > > > I searched for u-boot ZFS references and all I found was several
> > > > > years old, but I suppose u-boot can cope with ZFS. So, my
> > > > > question is: is it possible to boot Linux from ZFS or at least
> > > > > boot from let's say SD-card with ext4 FS and mount a ZFS volume
> > > > > as root filesystem? I had a look at Armbian, installed all
> > > > > needed, user-space and kernel modules. After booting from SD card
> > > > > I can use ZFS on attached SATA SSD w/o any problem. I also see
> > > > > ZFS libs and kernel modules in initrd, so it looks like the
> > > > > necessary things are there. Don't know where to start. I would be
> > > > > very thankful for any help.
> > > >
> > > > The general easy answer is to have /boot that is separate from the
> > > > rootfs and using a filesystem more commonly supported.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tom
> > >
> > > Sounds like: go away kid, play with your old toys ;-)
> > > I was doing it the traditional way for long time, now wanted to try
> > > something new. Isn't it how we progress? I came to this list hoping
> > > to get an answer to my question. I know, most of you on this list
> > > have more important things to do. But giving me some advice could
> > > possibly result in me giving something back.
> > >
> >
> > Similar question I saw on OpenEmbedded/Yocto ML recenly. The answer
> > there was that "ZFS or ZOL is _not_ [*] commonly used on embedded
> > systems, so no support was needed"
> >
> > If find this topic interesting, then the community will try to help
> > when you provide any patches for review.
> >
> > However, considering the above, it may be hard for any _exact_
> > guidelines.
> >
> >
> > Note:
> > [*] - Personally, I didn't saw any usage of ZFS on embedded systems.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Lukasz Majewski
> >
> > --
> >
> > DENX Software Engineering GmbH, Managing Director: Wolfgang Denk
> > HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
> > Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-59 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: lukma@denx.de
>
> Hallo Lukasz
>
> My system in question is not an embeded one. I just stated to play
> with an Odroid-HC4 and Armbian.
> It has two SATA connectors, boots from a SD card.
> All computer I use which have more than one disk connected are
> set-up with software RAID and LVM on top of it.
> ZFS has both build-in it's why I asked.
> Currently I have on this HC4 two partitions on each disk, the
> smaller ones are in RAID1 and host root FS, the bigger ones are in a
> mirrored Zpool. It works OK, it would be nicer to have just one
> filesystem, though.
>
> Still not sure, it can or cannot be done?
My suggestion would be to use the EFI boot path with GRUB which
apparently can boot a Linux kernel from ZFS. You'd still need a EFI
system partition with grub.efi on it, but that could live on the SD
card.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: u-boot & ZFS
2021-08-18 13:25 ` ChrisO
2021-08-18 13:53 ` Tom Rini
2021-08-18 14:07 ` Mark Kettenis
@ 2021-08-18 14:12 ` Dimitri John Ledkov
2021-08-18 16:28 ` ChrisO
2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dimitri John Ledkov @ 2021-08-18 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ChrisO, U-Boot Mailing List
On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 2:26 PM ChrisO <armbian@osk.ch> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 12:26:11PM +0200, Lukasz Majewski wrote:
> > Hi ChrisO,
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 08:35:14PM -0400, Tom Rini wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 06:03:10PM +0200, ChrisO wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > >
> > > > > I searched for u-boot ZFS references and all I found was several
> > > > > years old, but I suppose u-boot can cope with ZFS. So, my
> > > > > question is: is it possible to boot Linux from ZFS or at least
> > > > > boot from let's say SD-card with ext4 FS and mount a ZFS volume
> > > > > as root filesystem? I had a look at Armbian, installed all
> > > > > needed, user-space and kernel modules. After booting from SD card
> > > > > I can use ZFS on attached SATA SSD w/o any problem. I also see
> > > > > ZFS libs and kernel modules in initrd, so it looks like the
> > > > > necessary things are there. Don't know where to start. I would be
> > > > > very thankful for any help.
> > > >
> > > > The general easy answer is to have /boot that is separate from the
> > > > rootfs and using a filesystem more commonly supported.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tom
> > >
> > > Sounds like: go away kid, play with your old toys ;-)
> > > I was doing it the traditional way for long time, now wanted to try
> > > something new. Isn't it how we progress? I came to this list hoping
> > > to get an answer to my question. I know, most of you on this list
> > > have more important things to do. But giving me some advice could
> > > possibly result in me giving something back.
> > >
> >
> > Similar question I saw on OpenEmbedded/Yocto ML recenly. The answer
> > there was that "ZFS or ZOL is _not_ [*] commonly used on embedded
> > systems, so no support was needed"
> >
> > If find this topic interesting, then the community will try to help
> > when you provide any patches for review.
> >
> > However, considering the above, it may be hard for any _exact_
> > guidelines.
> >
> >
> > Note:
> > [*] - Personally, I didn't saw any usage of ZFS on embedded systems.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Lukasz Majewski
> >
> > --
> >
> > DENX Software Engineering GmbH, Managing Director: Wolfgang Denk
> > HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
> > Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-59 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: lukma@denx.de
>
> Hallo Lukasz
>
> My system in question is not an embeded one. I just stated to play with an Odroid-HC4 and Armbian.
4GB of RAM sounds way too little for zfs.
> It has two SATA connectors, boots from a SD card.
> All computer I use which have more than one disk connected are set-up with software RAID and LVM on top of it.
> ZFS has both build-in it's why I asked.
> Currently I have on this HC4 two partitions on each disk, the smaller ones are in RAID1 and host root FS, the bigger ones are in a mirrored Zpool. It works OK, it would be nicer to have just one filesystem, though.
>
> Still not sure, it can or cannot be done?
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Chris
--
Regards,
Dimitri.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: u-boot & ZFS
2021-08-18 14:12 ` Dimitri John Ledkov
@ 2021-08-18 16:28 ` ChrisO
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: ChrisO @ 2021-08-18 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dimitri John Ledkov; +Cc: U-Boot Mailing List
On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 03:12:04PM +0100, Dimitri John Ledkov wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 2:26 PM ChrisO <armbian@osk.ch> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 12:26:11PM +0200, Lukasz Majewski wrote:
> > > Hi ChrisO,
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 08:35:14PM -0400, Tom Rini wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 06:03:10PM +0200, ChrisO wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I searched for u-boot ZFS references and all I found was several
> > > > > > years old, but I suppose u-boot can cope with ZFS. So, my
> > > > > > question is: is it possible to boot Linux from ZFS or at least
> > > > > > boot from let's say SD-card with ext4 FS and mount a ZFS volume
> > > > > > as root filesystem? I had a look at Armbian, installed all
> > > > > > needed, user-space and kernel modules. After booting from SD card
> > > > > > I can use ZFS on attached SATA SSD w/o any problem. I also see
> > > > > > ZFS libs and kernel modules in initrd, so it looks like the
> > > > > > necessary things are there. Don't know where to start. I would be
> > > > > > very thankful for any help.
> > > > >
> > > > > The general easy answer is to have /boot that is separate from the
> > > > > rootfs and using a filesystem more commonly supported.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like: go away kid, play with your old toys ;-)
> > > > I was doing it the traditional way for long time, now wanted to try
> > > > something new. Isn't it how we progress? I came to this list hoping
> > > > to get an answer to my question. I know, most of you on this list
> > > > have more important things to do. But giving me some advice could
> > > > possibly result in me giving something back.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Similar question I saw on OpenEmbedded/Yocto ML recenly. The answer
> > > there was that "ZFS or ZOL is _not_ [*] commonly used on embedded
> > > systems, so no support was needed"
> > >
> > > If find this topic interesting, then the community will try to help
> > > when you provide any patches for review.
> > >
> > > However, considering the above, it may be hard for any _exact_
> > > guidelines.
> > >
> > >
> > > Note:
> > > [*] - Personally, I didn't saw any usage of ZFS on embedded systems.
> > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Lukasz Majewski
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > DENX Software Engineering GmbH, Managing Director: Wolfgang Denk
> > > HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
> > > Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-59 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: lukma@denx.de
> >
> > Hallo Lukasz
> >
> > My system in question is not an embeded one. I just stated to play with an Odroid-HC4 and Armbian.
>
> 4GB of RAM sounds way too little for zfs.
Because ...
I don't want to keep my ZFS pool in RAM, it contains two disk partitions ~220GB and its usage of memory
for its cache, ARC (adaptive replacement cache) is:
root@odroidhc4:~# awk '/^size/ { print $1 " " $3 / 1048576 " MB" }' < /proc/spl/kstat/zfs/arcstats
size 5.91608 MB
I did administer, in another life ;-) large Solaris servers on ZFS only and never had mamory usage problems.
Thanks and regards,
Chris
>
> > It has two SATA connectors, boots from a SD card.
> > All computer I use which have more than one disk connected are set-up with software RAID and LVM on top of it.
> > ZFS has both build-in it's why I asked.
> > Currently I have on this HC4 two partitions on each disk, the smaller ones are in RAID1 and host root FS, the bigger ones are in a mirrored Zpool. It works OK, it would be nicer to have just one filesystem, though.
> >
> > Still not sure, it can or cannot be done?
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> > Chris
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Dimitri.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread