[PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Sanidhya Solanki]

Patch included below. As an aside, thank you for the excellent work on
the books and other documentation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Documentation: email-clients.txt

The information for Claws Mail, Evolution and Thunderbird was out of
date. It has been updated with new instructions and warnings.

Signed-off-by: Sanidhya Solanki <jpage.lkml@gmail.com>
---
 Documentation/email-clients.txt | 19 +++++++++++++++----
 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
b/Documentation/email-clients.txt index 2d485de..8819c90 100644
--- a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
+++ b/Documentation/email-clients.txt
@@ -79,17 +79,27 @@ to insert into the message.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Claws Mail (GUI)
 
-Works. Some people use this successfully for patches.
+Tested and Works as of December 2015. Some people use this successfully
+for patches.
 
 To insert a patch use Message->Insert File (CTRL+i) or an external
editor. 
 If the inserted patch has to be edited in the Claws composition window
 "Auto wrapping" in Configuration->Preferences->Compose->Wrapping
should be -disabled.
+disabled. Also, under the heading "View", sub-heading "Character
Encoding" +, choose "Unicode (UTF - 8)"
+
+Do remember that if you insert or type something in the main text area,
+and decide to delete it, you will need to reset the formatting by
opening +a new window for the change you want to make. Re-using the
window in which +you deleted the text will lead to the new message
being mangled. 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Evolution (GUI)
 
+As of December 2015, the composing & inserting  method described below
+does not work.
+
 Some people use this successfully for patches.
 
 When composing mail select: Preformat
@@ -244,8 +254,9 @@ Sylpheed (GUI)
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Thunderbird (GUI)
 
-Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
are ways -to coerce it into behaving.
+Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
are +ways to coerce it into behaving. In December 2015, the internal
editor +options do not appear to work.
 
 - Allow use of an external editor:
   The easiest thing to do with Thunderbird and patches is to use an
-- 
2.5.0

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Jonathan Corbet]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 01:09:39 -0500
Sanidhya Solanki <jpage.lkml@gmail.com> wrote:

> Patch included below. As an aside, thank you for the excellent work on
> the books and other documentation.

Thanks for the nice comments.  Future praise, however, should go below the
"---" marker so I don't have to edit it out of the changelogs :)

> Documentation: email-clients.txt
> 
> The information for Claws Mail, Evolution and Thunderbird was out of
> date. It has been updated with new instructions and warnings.

So I feel like I'm missing some sort of intentional irony, but I do have
to point out that this patch has been corrupted by your mailer and cannot
be applied.  The usual advice here applies: try sending the email to
yourself and applying the result.

> diff --git a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
> b/Documentation/email-clients.txt index 2d485de..8819c90 100644
> --- a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
> +++ b/Documentation/email-clients.txt
> @@ -79,17 +79,27 @@ to insert into the message.
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Claws Mail (GUI)
>  
> -Works. Some people use this successfully for patches.
> +Tested and Works as of December 2015. Some people use this successfully
> +for patches.

Not sure we need datestamps like this here.  In any case, a few kernel
developers are known to use claws - myself included.  We test it every day :)

>  To insert a patch use Message->Insert File (CTRL+i) or an external
> editor. 
>  If the inserted patch has to be edited in the Claws composition window
>  "Auto wrapping" in Configuration->Preferences->Compose->Wrapping
> should be -disabled.
> +disabled. Also, under the heading "View", sub-heading "Character
> Encoding" +, choose "Unicode (UTF - 8)"
> +
> +Do remember that if you insert or type something in the main text area,
> +and decide to delete it, you will need to reset the formatting by
> opening +a new window for the change you want to make. Re-using the
> window in which +you deleted the text will lead to the new message
> being mangled. 

...and this makes no sense to me.  I've never seen any such behavior in
claws?

>  Evolution (GUI)
>  
> +As of December 2015, the composing & inserting  method described below
> +does not work.

Could it really be that nobody is using evolution?  Much nicer here would
be to describe how it fails to work, and, ideally, come up with a fix.

>  Some people use this successfully for patches.
>  
>  When composing mail select: Preformat
> @@ -244,8 +254,9 @@ Sylpheed (GUI)
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Thunderbird (GUI)
>  
> -Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
> are ways -to coerce it into behaving.
> +Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
> are +ways to coerce it into behaving. In December 2015, the internal
> editor +options do not appear to work.

Again, what's the problem here?  I suspect there are people using
Thunderbird out there, how are they doing it if the documented approach
doesn't work?

Thanks,

jon

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Joe Perches]

On Sun, 2015-12-06 aASCIIt 08:30 -0700, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 01:09:39 -0500
> Sanidhya Solanki <jpage.lkml@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
> >  Evolution (GUI)
> >  
> > +As of December 2015, the composing & inserting  method described below
> > +does not work.
> 
> Could it really be that nobody is using evolution?  Much nicer here would
> be to describe how it fails to work, and, ideally, come up with a fix.

Evolution 3.12 works fine.

The text editor for Evolution versions > 3.12 is broken
and unrepairable.

Evolution 3.16 has very poor behavior when replying to
text emails with tabs.  A ">" character is added before
every tab in the reply.

Evolution 3.18 occasionally uses the Non-Breaking-Space
(NBSP) character instead of the standand ASCII 32 space
which breaks applying patches sent with that email client.

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Jonathan Corbet]

On Sun, 06 Dec 2015 10:11:04 -0800
Joe Perches <joe@perches.com> wrote:

> > Could it really be that nobody is using evolution?  Much nicer here would
> > be to describe how it fails to work, and, ideally, come up with a fix.  
> 
> Evolution 3.12 works fine.
> 
> The text editor for Evolution versions > 3.12 is broken
> and unrepairable.
> 
> Evolution 3.16 has very poor behavior when replying to
> text emails with tabs.  A ">" character is added before
> every tab in the reply.
> 
> Evolution 3.18 occasionally uses the Non-Breaking-Space
> (NBSP) character instead of the standand ASCII 32 space
> which breaks applying patches sent with that email client.

OK, this is good to know; this is the kind of info that should go into
email-clients.txt.

jon

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Randy Dunlap]

On 12/06/15 07:30, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 01:09:39 -0500
> Sanidhya Solanki <jpage.lkml@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Patch included below. As an aside, thank you for the excellent work on
>> the books and other documentation.
> 
> Thanks for the nice comments.  Future praise, however, should go below the
> "---" marker so I don't have to edit it out of the changelogs :)
> 
>> Documentation: email-clients.txt
>>
>> The information for Claws Mail, Evolution and Thunderbird was out of
>> date. It has been updated with new instructions and warnings.
> 
> So I feel like I'm missing some sort of intentional irony, but I do have
> to point out that this patch has been corrupted by your mailer and cannot
> be applied.  The usual advice here applies: try sending the email to
> yourself and applying the result.
> 
>> diff --git a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
>> b/Documentation/email-clients.txt index 2d485de..8819c90 100644
>> --- a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
>> +++ b/Documentation/email-clients.txt
>> @@ -79,17 +79,27 @@ to insert into the message.
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  Claws Mail (GUI)
>>  
>> -Works. Some people use this successfully for patches.
>> +Tested and Works as of December 2015. Some people use this successfully
>> +for patches.
> 
> Not sure we need datestamps like this here.  In any case, a few kernel
> developers are known to use claws - myself included.  We test it every day :)
> 
>>  To insert a patch use Message->Insert File (CTRL+i) or an external
>> editor. 
>>  If the inserted patch has to be edited in the Claws composition window
>>  "Auto wrapping" in Configuration->Preferences->Compose->Wrapping
>> should be -disabled.
>> +disabled. Also, under the heading "View", sub-heading "Character
>> Encoding" +, choose "Unicode (UTF - 8)"
>> +
>> +Do remember that if you insert or type something in the main text area,
>> +and decide to delete it, you will need to reset the formatting by
>> opening +a new window for the change you want to make. Re-using the
>> window in which +you deleted the text will lead to the new message
>> being mangled. 
> 
> ...and this makes no sense to me.  I've never seen any such behavior in
> claws?
> 
>>  Evolution (GUI)
>>  
>> +As of December 2015, the composing & inserting  method described below
>> +does not work.
> 
> Could it really be that nobody is using evolution?  Much nicer here would
> be to describe how it fails to work, and, ideally, come up with a fix.
> 
>>  Some people use this successfully for patches.
>>  
>>  When composing mail select: Preformat
>> @@ -244,8 +254,9 @@ Sylpheed (GUI)
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  Thunderbird (GUI)
>>  
>> -Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
>> are ways -to coerce it into behaving.
>> +Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
>> are +ways to coerce it into behaving. In December 2015, the internal
>> editor +options do not appear to work.
> 
> Again, what's the problem here?  I suspect there are people using
> Thunderbird out there, how are they doing it if the documented approach
> doesn't work?

I use thunderbird with an external editor plugin, so I just insert patches with
the external editor.


-- 
~Randy

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Paul Bolle]

On zo, 2015-12-06 at 10:11 -0800, Joe Perches wrote:
> The text editor for Evolution versions > 3.12 is broken
> and unrepairable.

My experiences with Evolution 3.16 tell me that might be correct.

> Evolution 3.16 has very poor behavior when replying to
> text emails with tabs.  A ">" character is added before
> every tab in the reply.

That made me shout at my laptop quite a few times already. Oddly enough,
Evolution behaved like it didn't notice that and just kept on doing
that. What an arrogant application...

Also note the annoying line breaks in my reply (written with Evolution
3.16.5). That nonsense also didn't happen in 3.12.

> Evolution 3.18 occasionally uses the Non-Breaking-Space
> (NBSP) character instead of the standand ASCII 32 space
> which breaks applying patches sent with that email client.

(I've only been using Evolution for a decade now. But still the thought
that I really should be looking into a new client scares me quite a
bit.)


Paul Bolle

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Paul Bolle]

On zo, 2015-12-06 at 22:35 +0100, Paul Bolle wrote:
> That made me shout at my laptop quite a few times already. Oddly
> enough,
> Evolution behaved like it didn't notice that and just kept on doing
> that. What an arrogant application...
> 
> Also note the annoying line breaks in my reply (written with Evolution
> 3.16.5). That nonsense also didn't happen in 3.12.

Being polite with mail, I edited out the lines with these line breaks.
But this self-reply should actually show that annoyance.


Paul Bolle

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Sanidhya Solanki]

So, now that everyone has sounded off about their clients, I guess we
can know how people still use the clients that are included in the
documentation.

As a side note, JC, I think I have figured out why the patch did not
apply for you but works for me. It appears, ostensibly, that when
using CLaws 3.12 on Fedora, I can send patches that seem to work only
after inserting the file. If I add anything in the compose window after
inserting the patch, the client appears to mangle it. That would
explain the issues you experienced and  I still seem to be having. 

As an aside, I do send every patch to myself on multiple accounts using
Claws, then compare the SHA512 hash, and as a final measure reset git
and reapply the patch. Only then do I send it to the mailing list.

If no one else provides a patch including the information supplied by
this email chain in 5 days, then I will collect it all and send it to
you in a patch.

Best give people a few days to claim their findings as their own,
without delaying it too much.

Try the patch I just send you.

Thanks.

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Joe Perches]

On Sun, 2015-12-06 at 19:10 -0500, Sanidhya Solanki wrote:
> Try the patch I just send you.

I think you should first try the patch you just sent yourself.

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Randy Dunlap]

On 12/06/15 20:13, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Sun, 2015-12-06 at 19:10 -0500, Sanidhya Solanki wrote:
>> Try the patch I just send you.
> 
> I think you should first try the patch you just sent yourself.
> 

Yes, it appears to be mangled. :(


-- 
~Randy

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Austin S Hemmelgarn]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3802 bytes --]

On 2015-12-06 15:52, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> On 12/06/15 07:30, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 01:09:39 -0500
>> Sanidhya Solanki <jpage.lkml@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Patch included below. As an aside, thank you for the excellent work on
>>> the books and other documentation.
>>
>> Thanks for the nice comments.  Future praise, however, should go below the
>> "---" marker so I don't have to edit it out of the changelogs :)
>>
>>> Documentation: email-clients.txt
>>>
>>> The information for Claws Mail, Evolution and Thunderbird was out of
>>> date. It has been updated with new instructions and warnings.
>>
>> So I feel like I'm missing some sort of intentional irony, but I do have
>> to point out that this patch has been corrupted by your mailer and cannot
>> be applied.  The usual advice here applies: try sending the email to
>> yourself and applying the result.
>>
>>> diff --git a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
>>> b/Documentation/email-clients.txt index 2d485de..8819c90 100644
>>> --- a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
>>> +++ b/Documentation/email-clients.txt
>>> @@ -79,17 +79,27 @@ to insert into the message.
>>>   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>   Claws Mail (GUI)
>>>
>>> -Works. Some people use this successfully for patches.
>>> +Tested and Works as of December 2015. Some people use this successfully
>>> +for patches.
>>
>> Not sure we need datestamps like this here.  In any case, a few kernel
>> developers are known to use claws - myself included.  We test it every day :)
>>
>>>   To insert a patch use Message->Insert File (CTRL+i) or an external
>>> editor.
>>>   If the inserted patch has to be edited in the Claws composition window
>>>   "Auto wrapping" in Configuration->Preferences->Compose->Wrapping
>>> should be -disabled.
>>> +disabled. Also, under the heading "View", sub-heading "Character
>>> Encoding" +, choose "Unicode (UTF - 8)"
>>> +
>>> +Do remember that if you insert or type something in the main text area,
>>> +and decide to delete it, you will need to reset the formatting by
>>> opening +a new window for the change you want to make. Re-using the
>>> window in which +you deleted the text will lead to the new message
>>> being mangled.
>>
>> ...and this makes no sense to me.  I've never seen any such behavior in
>> claws?
>>
>>>   Evolution (GUI)
>>>
>>> +As of December 2015, the composing & inserting  method described below
>>> +does not work.
>>
>> Could it really be that nobody is using evolution?  Much nicer here would
>> be to describe how it fails to work, and, ideally, come up with a fix.
>>
>>>   Some people use this successfully for patches.
>>>
>>>   When composing mail select: Preformat
>>> @@ -244,8 +254,9 @@ Sylpheed (GUI)
>>>   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>   Thunderbird (GUI)
>>>
>>> -Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
>>> are ways -to coerce it into behaving.
>>> +Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
>>> are +ways to coerce it into behaving. In December 2015, the internal
>>> editor +options do not appear to work.
>>
>> Again, what's the problem here?  I suspect there are people using
>> Thunderbird out there, how are they doing it if the documented approach
>> doesn't work?
>
> I use thunderbird with an external editor plugin, so I just insert patches with
> the external editor.
>
It may be worth noting that you can get a plugin that lets you just 
toggle word-wrap with the internal editor (rather un-inventively called 
'Toggle Word Wrap'), and that _seems_ to work most of the time.  The 
down side to this of course is that it toggles for the whole message, 
and not just parts of it.



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Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Clemens Ladisch]

Sanidhya Solanki wrote:
>  Claws Mail (GUI)
>
> -Works. Some people use this successfully for patches.
> +Tested and Works as of December 2015. Some people use this successfully
> +for patches.

"Some people" still doesn't include you:

> -Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
> are ways -to coerce it into behaving.
> +Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
> are +ways to coerce it into behaving. In December 2015, the internal
> editor +options do not appear to work.

How exactly?  Thunderbird appears to work for me, and doesn't break long lines or sends plain text as "flowed".

And version numbers might be more useful than dates.


Regards,
Clemens

Re: [PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

[Sanidhya Solanki]

[PATCH] Documentation: email-clients.txt

The information for Claws Mail, Evolution and Thunderbird was out of
date. It has been updated with new instructions and warnings.

Signed-off-by: Sanidhya Solanki <jpage.lkml@gmail.com>
---
 Documentation/email-clients.txt | 19 +++++++++++++++----
 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
b/Documentation/email-clients.txt index 2d485de..8819c90 100644
--- a/Documentation/email-clients.txt
+++ b/Documentation/email-clients.txt
@@ -79,17 +79,27 @@ to insert into the message.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Claws Mail (GUI)
 
-Works. Some people use this successfully for patches.
+Tested and Works as of December 2015. Some people use this successfully
+for patches.
 
 To insert a patch use Message->Insert File (CTRL+i) or an external
editor. 
 If the inserted patch has to be edited in the Claws composition window
 "Auto wrapping" in Configuration->Preferences->Compose->Wrapping
should be -disabled.
+disabled. Also, under the heading "View", sub-heading "Character
Encoding" +, choose "Unicode (UTF - 8)"
+
+Do remember that if you insert or type something in the main text area,
+and decide to delete it, you will need to reset the formatting by
opening +a new window for the change you want to make. Re-using the
window in which +you deleted the text will lead to the new message
being mangled. 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Evolution (GUI)
 
+As of December 2015, the composing & inserting  method described below
+does not work.
+
 Some people use this successfully for patches.
 
 When composing mail select: Preformat
@@ -244,8 +254,9 @@ Sylpheed (GUI)
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Thunderbird (GUI)
 
-Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
are ways -to coerce it into behaving.
+Thunderbird is an Outlook clone that likes to mangle text, but there
are +ways to coerce it into behaving. In December 2015, the internal
editor +options do not appear to work.
 
 - Allow use of an external editor:
   The easiest thing to do with Thunderbird and patches is to use an
-- 
2.5.0