From: Frank Rowand <frowand.list@gmail.com> To: Grant Likely <grant.likely@secretlab.ca>, Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org> Cc: "devicetree@vger.kernel.org" <devicetree@vger.kernel.org>, Kumar Gala <kumar.gala@linaro.org>, "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>, Rob Herring <rob.herring@linaro.org>, "devicetree-spec@vger.kernel.org" <devicetree-spec@vger.kernel.org>, Pantelis Antoniou <pantelis.antoniou@konsulko.com>, Andy Gross <andy.gross@linaro.org>, Lucas Stach <l.stach@pengutronix.de>, David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Devicetree Workshop at Kernel Summit Prague (26 Oct 2017) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 16:45:56 -0700 [thread overview] Message-ID: <59E69634.7020100@gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <CACxGe6vkxTwUw2ma_ykZQ0JsKUQTeffMC+g4pq6LnaN9qoY2_A@mail.gmail.com> On 10/17/17 06:38, Grant Likely wrote: > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org> wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Ben Dooks <ben.dooks@codethink.co.uk> wrote: >>> On 16/10/17 06:36, Michal Simek wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On 9.10.2017 22:39, Grant Likely wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kernel Summit is now just over 2 weeks away and it is time to pull >>>>> together the schedule for the Devicetree workshop. Originally I >>>>> planned on just an afternoon, but I've got the room for the whole day, >>>>> so I've got a lot of flexibility on the schedule. Unscheduled time can >>>>> be used for hacking. >>>>> >>>>> Date: 26 Oct 2017 >>>>> Time: 9:00am-5:30pm (Lunch from 12:30-2:30) >>>>> Location: Athens room - Hilton Prague >>>>> >>>>> If you plan to attend, make sure you update your OSSunmitE/ELCE >>>>> registration to include the DT Workshop (log in to access and modify >>>>> your registration): >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.regonline.com/register/login.aspx?eventID=1883377&MethodId=0&EventsessionId=&Email_Address=&membershipID= >>>>> >>>>> Here is my current list of topics in no particular order, including >>>>> the topic moderator: >>>>> >>>>> Runtime memory consumption (Rob Herring) >>>>> Overlay maintenance plan (TBC) >>>>> Stable ABI for devicetree (TBC) >>>>> DT YAML encoding (Pantelis Antoniou) >>>>> DT Schema format - option 1 (Pantelis Antoniou) >>>>> DT Schema format - option 2 (Grant Likely) >>>>> Sharing Generic bindings (TBC) >>>>> devicetree.org update (Grant) >>>>> >>>>> Reply to this email if you want to propose another topic. >>>>> >>>>> Reply privately if there is a particular topic you want to attend but >>>>> you are unable to be there in the morning or afternoon. I'll put the >>>>> actual agenda together a week out from the event. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would like to talk how to add support for AArch32 based on arm64 dts >>>> file. >>>> >>>> And next topic is discuss criteria for adding new DTS board files to >>>> kernel for supporting custom boards especially for arm32 which can end >>>> up with a lot of dts files in this folder. >>>> If make sense to permit only boards with something new or just enable >>>> reference boards to go in. >>> >>> >>> I am interested in this, as we seem to be repeating the quantity >>> issue with the board file of having many .dts sources in the kernel. >> >> The problem was not so much having board files in the kernel. It was >> how to scale support for boards and SoCs with each family structuring >> things their own, different way. >> >> IIRC, the ARM tree was at ~400 boards at the start of DT conversion. >> Now we're at ~1100 boards for arm/arm64. Plus we still have 264 that >> aren't converted to DT. >> >>> I'm not sure how to deal with this, on one hand only having the >>> reference (and possibly popular) boards is going to keep the size >>> down. On the other hand out of tree .dts files are going to be >>> difficult to find (or vanish with the vendor). >> >> Why do we care? What problem is that causing? > > In fact, for many platforms that would be a good place to get to if > the firmware is providing the .dtb. Plus the DT data formats are so > simple that it is not difficult to get a DTB back into a DTS. No, it _is_ difficult to convert a DTB to a useful DTS. The DTB might not be easily extracted from a vendor provided boot image. You do not get a full DTS back from a decompiled DTB. Phandle references are integers instead of strings. Labels are missing. >> >>> It seems we are still no closer to having a DT repository outside >>> the kernel. >> >> In relationship to the above what problem would that solve? We've got >> all the platform maintainers and arm-soc maintainers to handle dts >> files. Mark and myself along with subsystem maintainers reviewing and >> applying device bindings. If you move all that to a separate >> repository, then you have me because no one else has volunteered. I'm >> pretty sure no one wants me as the single point of failure. > > Yes. When it comes to the bindings, and schema files when we have > them, they should be maintained with the tools. Totally disagree. I'm sure we'll have the same discussion we have had at various ELC and ELCE events, where a handful of people want to move the DTS files out of the kernel source tree, and the vast majority of the room is opposed to that. > > g. > . >
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Frank Rowand <frowand.list-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> To: Grant Likely <grant.likely-s3s/WqlpOiPyB63q8FvJNQ@public.gmane.org>, Rob Herring <robh-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> Cc: Ben Dooks <ben.dooks-4yDnlxn2s6sWdaTGBSpHTA@public.gmane.org>, Michal Simek <monstr-pSz03upnqPeHXe+LvDLADg@public.gmane.org>, "devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org" <devicetree-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>, "devicetree-spec-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org" <devicetree-spec-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>, "ksummit-discuss-cunTk1MwBs98uUxBSJOaYoYkZiVZrdSR2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org" <ksummit-discuss-cunTk1MwBs98uUxBSJOaYoYkZiVZrdSR2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org>, David Gibson <david-xT8FGy+AXnRB3Ne2BGzF6laj5H9X9Tb+@public.gmane.org>, Julia Lawall <Julia.Lawall-L2FTfq7BK8M@public.gmane.org>, Pantelis Antoniou <pantelis.antoniou-OWPKS81ov/FWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>, Lucas Stach <l.stach-bIcnvbaLZ9MEGnE8C9+IrQ@public.gmane.org>, Kumar Gala <kumar.gala-QSEj5FYQhm4dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>, Andy Gross <andy.gross-QSEj5FYQhm4dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>, Rob Herring <rob.herring-QSEj5FYQhm4dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Devicetree Workshop at Kernel Summit Prague (26 Oct 2017) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 16:45:56 -0700 [thread overview] Message-ID: <59E69634.7020100@gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <CACxGe6vkxTwUw2ma_ykZQ0JsKUQTeffMC+g4pq6LnaN9qoY2_A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> On 10/17/17 06:38, Grant Likely wrote: > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Rob Herring <robh-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Ben Dooks <ben.dooks-4yDnlxn2s6sWdaTGBSpHTA@public.gmane.org> wrote: >>> On 16/10/17 06:36, Michal Simek wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On 9.10.2017 22:39, Grant Likely wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kernel Summit is now just over 2 weeks away and it is time to pull >>>>> together the schedule for the Devicetree workshop. Originally I >>>>> planned on just an afternoon, but I've got the room for the whole day, >>>>> so I've got a lot of flexibility on the schedule. Unscheduled time can >>>>> be used for hacking. >>>>> >>>>> Date: 26 Oct 2017 >>>>> Time: 9:00am-5:30pm (Lunch from 12:30-2:30) >>>>> Location: Athens room - Hilton Prague >>>>> >>>>> If you plan to attend, make sure you update your OSSunmitE/ELCE >>>>> registration to include the DT Workshop (log in to access and modify >>>>> your registration): >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.regonline.com/register/login.aspx?eventID=1883377&MethodId=0&EventsessionId=&Email_Address=&membershipID= >>>>> >>>>> Here is my current list of topics in no particular order, including >>>>> the topic moderator: >>>>> >>>>> Runtime memory consumption (Rob Herring) >>>>> Overlay maintenance plan (TBC) >>>>> Stable ABI for devicetree (TBC) >>>>> DT YAML encoding (Pantelis Antoniou) >>>>> DT Schema format - option 1 (Pantelis Antoniou) >>>>> DT Schema format - option 2 (Grant Likely) >>>>> Sharing Generic bindings (TBC) >>>>> devicetree.org update (Grant) >>>>> >>>>> Reply to this email if you want to propose another topic. >>>>> >>>>> Reply privately if there is a particular topic you want to attend but >>>>> you are unable to be there in the morning or afternoon. I'll put the >>>>> actual agenda together a week out from the event. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would like to talk how to add support for AArch32 based on arm64 dts >>>> file. >>>> >>>> And next topic is discuss criteria for adding new DTS board files to >>>> kernel for supporting custom boards especially for arm32 which can end >>>> up with a lot of dts files in this folder. >>>> If make sense to permit only boards with something new or just enable >>>> reference boards to go in. >>> >>> >>> I am interested in this, as we seem to be repeating the quantity >>> issue with the board file of having many .dts sources in the kernel. >> >> The problem was not so much having board files in the kernel. It was >> how to scale support for boards and SoCs with each family structuring >> things their own, different way. >> >> IIRC, the ARM tree was at ~400 boards at the start of DT conversion. >> Now we're at ~1100 boards for arm/arm64. Plus we still have 264 that >> aren't converted to DT. >> >>> I'm not sure how to deal with this, on one hand only having the >>> reference (and possibly popular) boards is going to keep the size >>> down. On the other hand out of tree .dts files are going to be >>> difficult to find (or vanish with the vendor). >> >> Why do we care? What problem is that causing? > > In fact, for many platforms that would be a good place to get to if > the firmware is providing the .dtb. Plus the DT data formats are so > simple that it is not difficult to get a DTB back into a DTS. No, it _is_ difficult to convert a DTB to a useful DTS. The DTB might not be easily extracted from a vendor provided boot image. You do not get a full DTS back from a decompiled DTB. Phandle references are integers instead of strings. Labels are missing. >> >>> It seems we are still no closer to having a DT repository outside >>> the kernel. >> >> In relationship to the above what problem would that solve? We've got >> all the platform maintainers and arm-soc maintainers to handle dts >> files. Mark and myself along with subsystem maintainers reviewing and >> applying device bindings. If you move all that to a separate >> repository, then you have me because no one else has volunteered. I'm >> pretty sure no one wants me as the single point of failure. > > Yes. When it comes to the bindings, and schema files when we have > them, they should be maintained with the tools. Totally disagree. I'm sure we'll have the same discussion we have had at various ELC and ELCE events, where a handful of people want to move the DTS files out of the kernel source tree, and the vast majority of the room is opposed to that. > > g. > . >
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-10-17 23:46 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 126+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2017-10-09 20:39 [Ksummit-discuss] Devicetree Workshop at Kernel Summit Prague (26 Oct 2017) Grant Likely 2017-10-09 20:39 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-14 12:34 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Thomas Petazzoni 2017-10-14 12:34 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2017-10-17 13:30 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 13:30 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-16 5:36 ` Michal Simek 2017-10-16 5:36 ` Michal Simek 2017-10-16 14:11 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-16 14:11 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 14:04 ` Michal Simek 2017-10-18 14:04 ` Michal Simek 2017-10-18 14:28 ` Andre Przywara 2017-10-18 14:28 ` Andre Przywara 2017-10-18 15:32 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 15:32 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 16:05 ` Andre Przywara 2017-10-18 16:05 ` Andre Przywara 2017-10-18 16:20 ` Pantelis Antoniou 2017-10-18 16:20 ` Pantelis Antoniou 2017-10-16 16:40 ` Ben Dooks 2017-10-16 16:40 ` Ben Dooks 2017-10-16 18:44 ` Heiko Stübner 2017-10-16 18:44 ` Heiko Stübner 2017-10-16 19:45 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-16 19:45 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-17 13:38 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 13:38 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 23:45 ` Frank Rowand [this message] 2017-10-17 23:45 ` Frank Rowand 2017-10-17 13:32 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 13:32 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-18 10:08 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2017-10-18 10:08 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2017-10-16 16:42 ` Ben Dooks 2017-10-16 16:42 ` Ben Dooks 2017-10-17 13:34 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 13:34 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 9:48 ` Boris Brezillon 2017-10-17 9:48 ` Boris Brezillon 2017-10-17 13:21 ` Tom Rini 2017-10-17 13:21 ` Tom Rini 2017-10-17 13:48 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 13:48 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-17 16:21 ` Ian Lepore 2017-10-17 16:21 ` Ian Lepore 2017-10-17 17:02 ` Kumar Gala 2017-10-17 17:02 ` Kumar Gala 2017-10-17 17:24 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2017-10-17 17:24 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2017-10-17 17:24 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2017-10-17 19:03 ` Bird, Timothy 2017-10-17 19:03 ` Bird, Timothy 2017-10-18 12:14 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-18 12:14 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-18 12:14 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-18 12:59 ` Pantelis Antoniou 2017-10-18 12:59 ` Pantelis Antoniou 2017-10-18 13:18 ` Alexandre Belloni 2017-10-18 13:18 ` Alexandre Belloni 2017-10-18 13:21 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2017-10-18 13:21 ` Geert Uytterhoeven 2017-10-18 17:41 ` Bird, Timothy 2017-10-18 17:41 ` Bird, Timothy 2017-10-18 18:00 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 18:00 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 21:10 ` Alexandre Belloni 2017-10-18 21:10 ` Alexandre Belloni 2017-10-18 16:18 ` David Woodhouse 2017-10-18 16:18 ` David Woodhouse 2017-10-18 14:13 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 14:13 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 17:45 ` Bird, Timothy 2017-10-18 17:45 ` Bird, Timothy 2017-10-18 14:07 ` Kumar Gala 2017-10-18 14:07 ` Kumar Gala 2017-10-18 14:07 ` Kumar Gala 2017-10-17 17:25 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-17 17:25 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 10:11 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2017-10-18 10:11 ` Thomas Petazzoni 2017-10-18 10:35 ` Chen-Yu Tsai 2017-10-18 10:35 ` Chen-Yu Tsai 2017-10-18 11:09 ` Mark Brown 2017-10-18 11:09 ` Mark Brown 2017-10-18 17:59 ` Tom Rini 2017-10-18 17:59 ` Tom Rini 2017-10-18 23:28 ` Andrew Turner 2017-10-18 23:28 ` Andrew Turner 2017-10-18 23:28 ` Andrew Turner 2017-10-18 23:53 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 23:53 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-18 23:53 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-19 14:00 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-19 14:00 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-19 14:00 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-19 14:59 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-19 14:59 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-19 14:59 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-19 18:46 ` Frank Rowand 2017-10-19 18:46 ` Frank Rowand 2017-10-19 18:46 ` Frank Rowand 2017-10-20 9:55 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-20 9:55 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-20 9:55 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-20 10:01 ` David Gibson 2017-10-20 10:01 ` David Gibson 2017-10-20 13:37 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-20 13:37 ` Rob Herring 2017-10-22 8:25 ` David Gibson 2017-10-22 8:25 ` David Gibson 2017-10-20 13:47 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-20 13:47 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-20 13:47 ` Alexandre Torgue 2017-10-19 0:04 ` Mark Brown 2017-10-19 0:04 ` Mark Brown 2017-10-19 11:10 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-19 11:10 ` Grant Likely 2017-10-24 7:37 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Boris Brezillon 2017-10-24 7:37 ` Boris Brezillon 2017-10-25 14:40 ` Maxime Ripard 2017-10-25 14:40 ` Maxime Ripard 2017-10-26 5:47 ` Frank Rowand 2017-10-26 5:47 ` Frank Rowand 2017-10-26 7:17 ` [Ksummit-discuss] " Grant Likely 2017-10-26 7:17 ` Grant Likely
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