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From: ndrw.xf@redhazel.co.uk
To: Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>, Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>
Cc: Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>,
	"Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>
Subject: Re: Let's talk about the elephant in the room - the Linux kernel's inability to gracefully handle low memory pressure
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:10:07 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <806F5696-A8D6-481D-A82F-49DEC1F2B035@redhazel.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190808114826.GC18351@dhcp22.suse.cz>



On 8 August 2019 12:48:26 BST, Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Per default, the OOM killer will engage after 15 seconds of at least
>> 80% memory pressure. These values are tunable via sysctls
>> vm.thrashing_oom_period and vm.thrashing_oom_level.
>
>As I've said earlier I would be somehow more comfortable with a kernel
>command line/module parameter based tuning because it is less of a
>stable API and potential future stall detector might be completely
>independent on PSI and the current metric exported. But I can live with
>that because a period and level sounds quite generic.

Would it be possible to reserve a fixed (configurable) amount of RAM for caches, and trigger OOM killer earlier, before most UI code is evicted from memory? In my use case, I am happy sacrificing e.g. 0.5GB and kill runaway tasks _before_ the system freezes. Potentially OOM killer would also work better in such conditions. I almost never work at close to full memory capacity, it's always a single task that goes wrong and brings the system down.

The problem with PSI sensing is that it works after the fact (after the freeze has already occurred). It is not very different from issuing SysRq-f manually on a frozen system, although it would still be a handy feature for batched tasks and remote access. 

Best regards, 
ndrw



WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: ndrw.xf@redhazel.co.uk
To: Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>
Cc: Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com>,Vlastimil Babka
	<vbabka@suse.cz>,"Artem S. Tashkinov" <aros@gmx.com>,Andrew
	Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,LKML
	<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>
Subject: Re: Let's talk about the elephant in the room - the Linux kernel's inability to gracefully handle low memory pressure
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:10:07 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <806F5696-A8D6-481D-A82F-49DEC1F2B035@redhazel.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190808114826.GC18351@dhcp22.suse.cz>



On 8 August 2019 12:48:26 BST, Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Per default, the OOM killer will engage after 15 seconds of at least
>> 80% memory pressure. These values are tunable via sysctls
>> vm.thrashing_oom_period and vm.thrashing_oom_level.
>
>As I've said earlier I would be somehow more comfortable with a kernel
>command line/module parameter based tuning because it is less of a
>stable API and potential future stall detector might be completely
>independent on PSI and the current metric exported. But I can live with
>that because a period and level sounds quite generic.

Would it be possible to reserve a fixed (configurable) amount of RAM for caches, and trigger OOM killer earlier, before most UI code is evicted from memory? In my use case, I am happy sacrificing e.g. 0.5GB and kill runaway tasks _before_ the system freezes. Potentially OOM killer would also work better in such conditions. I almost never work at close to full memory capacity, it's always a single task that goes wrong and brings the system down.

The problem with PSI sensing is that it works after the fact (after the freeze has already occurred). It is not very different from issuing SysRq-f manually on a frozen system, although it would still be a handy feature for batched tasks and remote access. 

Best regards, 
ndrw



  reply	other threads:[~2019-08-08 15:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-08-04  9:23 Let's talk about the elephant in the room - the Linux kernel's inability to gracefully handle low memory pressure Artem S. Tashkinov
2019-08-05 12:13 ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-05 13:31   ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-05 16:47     ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-08-05 16:47       ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-08-05 18:55     ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-06  9:29       ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-05 19:31   ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-06  1:08     ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-08-06  1:08       ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-08-06  9:36       ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-06 14:27         ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-06 14:36           ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-06 16:27             ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-08-06 16:27               ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2019-08-06 22:01               ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-07  7:59                 ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-07 20:51                   ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-07 21:01                     ` Andrew Morton
2019-08-07 21:34                       ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-07 21:12                     ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-08 11:48                     ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-08 15:10                       ` ndrw.xf [this message]
2019-08-08 15:10                         ` ndrw.xf
2019-08-08 16:32                         ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-08 17:57                           ` ndrw.xf
2019-08-08 17:57                             ` ndrw.xf
2019-08-08 18:59                             ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-08 21:59                               ` ndrw
2019-08-09  8:57                                 ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-09 10:09                                   ` ndrw
2019-08-09 10:50                                     ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-09 14:18                                       ` Pintu Agarwal
2019-08-09 14:18                                         ` Pintu Agarwal
2019-08-10 12:34                                       ` ndrw
2019-08-12  8:24                                         ` Michal Hocko
2019-08-10 21:07                                   ` ndrw
2021-07-24 17:32                         ` Alexey Avramov
2021-07-25  2:11                           ` Hillf Danton
2019-08-08 14:47                     ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-08 17:27                       ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-09 14:56                         ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-09 17:31                           ` Johannes Weiner
2019-08-13 13:47                             ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-06 21:43       ` James Courtier-Dutton
2019-08-06 21:43         ` James Courtier-Dutton
2019-08-06 19:00 ` Florian Weimer
2019-08-20  6:46 ` Daniel Drake
2019-08-21 21:42   ` James Courtier-Dutton
2019-08-29 12:29     ` Michal Hocko
2019-09-02 20:15     ` Pavel Machek
2019-08-23  1:54   ` ndrw
2019-08-23  2:14     ` Daniel Drake
2019-08-05  9:05 Hillf Danton
2019-08-05 12:01 ` Artem S. Tashkinov
2019-08-06  8:57 Johannes Buchner
2019-08-06 19:43 Remi Gauvin

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