* Re: xattr support in NFS? [not found] <440439536.71.1352923952209.JavaMail.root@thunderbeast.private.linuxbox.com> @ 2012-11-14 20:13 ` Matt W. Benjamin 2012-11-14 20:24 ` ! Myklebust, Trond 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Matt W. Benjamin @ 2012-11-14 20:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trond Myklebust Cc: DENIEL Philippe, Tomasz Chmielewski, linux-nfs, tigran mkrtchyan Hi, feature - yes, an xattr like interface (though with NFSv4, I think I've tended to somewhat conflate in my mind the notions of xattr and named attribute, sorry). Well, that's the thing. An interface like xattr is generative. I don't think the ceiling on use cases is desktop search programs. The potential utility of the feature is something that comes to light over time, when you know you have the functionality available. For example, the Ceph developers came up recently with an algorithm to store information related to links in a special xattr. We've thought of exposing file checksum information as attributes. My sense of how many potential uses there may be is related mostly, as with Tigran's remark, to the number of times I've heard someone say, "we could solve that with an xattr/named attribute." You've said that xattrs and named attributes are completely different, but notwithstanding that, there seems to be logically quite a bit of overlap. Clearly, the fact that the NFS protocol treats named attributes as subfiles is a detail that the client need not expose to applications. It also seems as if an xattr interface is convenient for interacting with at a subset of named attributes (ones with tractable length names/values). I mean, as I note, this is the proplist, and that has been a very successful interface in a lot of systems, going back a -long- ways. Matt ----- "Trond Myklebust" <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 10:20 -0500, Matt W. Benjamin wrote: > > Actually, that reasoning sounds a little like a concession that the > feature should be blocked precisely because it may be tremendously > popular (useful). I don't think the argument that proplists can be > the building blocks for new system--but also > application--functionality is a good argument against them. > > What feature? The xattr interface? Before declaring it a major > success > story, you might want to consider that it has been implemented on > several major Linux filesystems for more that 10 years, yet is used > by > only a handful of (non-portable) applications. > > The main use-cases that I'm aware of are: > * Storage for ACLs. > * Storage for security labels. > * Samba uses xattrs for storing various per-file control > structures, when xattrs are supported by the underlying > filesystem. > * Storage for file search tags for use by programs such as > "beagle" and "tracker". > > Both ACLs and security labels are already covered by the NFS > protocol. > We don't need or want an xattr protocol to solve those problems. > > As for Samba, it works fine on filesystems that don't have xattrs as > far > as I know. Using it to re-export an NFS partition to CIFS is a > dubious > practice, but is not an xattr-related problem. > > So that leaves the "beagle" and "tracker" use case, where the xattr > usage for storing tags could easily be replaced by a database (and > usually is in equivalent portable software). Most people who want to > do > serious work on their systems tend to turn off beagle and tracker > anyway > since they are notorious cpu hogs. > > > ----- "Trond Myklebust" <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 11:47 +0100, Tigran Mkrtchyan wrote: > > > > That's bad news.... Currently we use 'magic files' to set/get > user > > > > specific metadata like number of events, space reservation > and > > > > different file retention policies. The hope was that all could > be > > > done > > > > with named attributes. > > > > > > > > Tigran. > > > > > > > > > > The setting and querying of retention policies is already covered > in > > > the > > > NFSv4.1 protocol without any need for any additions. Space > > > reservation > > > is already covered in NFSv4.2 (as are security labels - another > > > common > > > hobby-horse for xattr advocates). Why don't you implement those > > > instead > > > of wishing for a completely different way of doing the same > thing? > > > > > > Your argument demonstrates precisely why we should never do > xattrs > > > over > > > NFS. It makes it way too easy to go off and invent your own > private > > > and > > > non-standard protocol for doing ioctl()-like RPC calls. > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:54 AM, DENIEL Philippe > > > > <philippe.deniel@cea.fr> wrote: > > > > A few years ago, SGI tried to promote "NFS3 XATTR", an > > > > extension to NFSv3 to add xattr support. It roughly > added 3 > > > > functions to the protocol (GETXATTR, SETXATTR, > LISTXATTR), > > > in > > > > a similar way as what 9p.2000L does. Nothing but IRIX > had > > > this > > > > NFSv3 feature. As far as I know, it remained quite > exotic > > > and > > > > stayed a SGI's thing. > > > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > > > Matt W. Benjamin a écrit : > > > > > > > > Can you restate reasoning why it will never do > so, > > > and > > > > whether this is the same as saying it will > never > > > > implement named attributes? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > ----- "Trond Myklebust" > > > <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > No. We will never support xattrs over > NFS. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: > > > linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org > > > > [mailto:linux-nfs- > > > > owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf > Of > > > > Tomasz Chmielewski > > > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 > > > 10:14 > > > > AM > > > > To: linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org > > > > Subject: xattr support in NFS? > > > > > > > > Does Linux support xattr in > NFS? > > > > > > > > IF tries using it in both NFS3 > and > > > > NFS4 under Debian Lenny > (2.6.32, > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > server and client), without > > > success. > > > > > > > > # setfattr -n user.comment -v > "this > > > is > > > > a comment" /mnt/nfs > > > > setfattr: /mnt/nfs: Operation > not > > > > supported > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Tomasz Chmielewski > > > > http://blog.wpkg.org > > > > -- > > > > To unsubscribe from this list: > send > > > > the line "unsubscribe > linux-nfs" > > > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > body of a message to > > > > majordomo@vger.kernel.org More > > > > majordomo info > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > > > > > > N�����r��y���b�X��ǧv�^�){.n� > > > > > +����{���"��^n�r���z���h����&���G���h�(�階 > <> > �ݢj"���m�����z�ޖ���f���h���~�m� > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line > "unsubscribe > > > > linux-nfs" in > > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > > > More majordomo info at > > > > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Trond Myklebust > > > Linux NFS client maintainer > > > > > > NetApp > > > Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com > > > www.netapp.com > > > > N�����r��y���b�X��ǧv�^�){.n�+����{���"��^n�r���z���h����&���G���h�(�階�ݢj"���m�����z�ޖ���f���h���~�m� > > > > -- > Trond Myklebust > Linux NFS client maintainer > > NetApp > Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com > www.netapp.com -- Matt Benjamin The Linux Box 206 South Fifth Ave. Suite 150 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 http://linuxbox.com tel. 734-761-4689 fax. 734-769-8938 cel. 734-216-5309 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* ! 2012-11-14 20:13 ` xattr support in NFS? Matt W. Benjamin @ 2012-11-14 20:24 ` Myklebust, Trond 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-14 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt W. 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* xattr support in NFS? @ 2012-11-12 15:14 Tomasz Chmielewski 2012-11-12 15:56 ` Myklebust, Trond 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Tomasz Chmielewski @ 2012-11-12 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: linux-nfs Does Linux support xattr in NFS? IF tries using it in both NFS3 and NFS4 under Debian Lenny (2.6.32, both server and client), without success. # setfattr -n user.comment -v "this is a comment" /mnt/nfs setfattr: /mnt/nfs: Operation not supported -- Tomasz Chmielewski http://blog.wpkg.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* RE: xattr support in NFS? 2012-11-12 15:14 xattr support in NFS? Tomasz Chmielewski @ 2012-11-12 15:56 ` Myklebust, Trond 2012-11-12 19:49 ` Matt W. Benjamin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-12 15:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tomasz Chmielewski, linux-nfs Tm8uIFdlIHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgc3VwcG9ydCB4YXR0cnMgb3ZlciBORlMuDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1Pcmln aW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogbGludXgtbmZzLW93bmVyQHZnZXIua2VybmVsLm9y ZyBbbWFpbHRvOmxpbnV4LW5mcy0NCj4gb3duZXJAdmdlci5rZXJuZWwub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYg T2YgVG9tYXN6IENobWllbGV3c2tpDQo+IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMTIg MTA6MTQgQU0NCj4gVG86IGxpbnV4LW5mc0B2Z2VyLmtlcm5lbC5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogeGF0 dHIgc3VwcG9ydCBpbiBORlM/DQo+IA0KPiBEb2VzIExpbnV4IHN1cHBvcnQgeGF0dHIgaW4gTkZT Pw0KPiANCj4gSUYgdHJpZXMgdXNpbmcgaXQgaW4gYm90aCBORlMzIGFuZCBORlM0IHVuZGVyIERl YmlhbiBMZW5ueSAoMi42LjMyLCBib3RoDQo+IHNlcnZlciBhbmQgY2xpZW50KSwgd2l0aG91dCBz dWNjZXNzLg0KPiANCj4gIyBzZXRmYXR0ciAtbiB1c2VyLmNvbW1lbnQgLXYgInRoaXMgaXMgYSBj b21tZW50IiAvbW50L25mcw0KPiBzZXRmYXR0cjogL21udC9uZnM6IE9wZXJhdGlvbiBub3Qgc3Vw cG9ydGVkDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gLS0NCj4gVG9tYXN6IENobWllbGV3c2tpDQo+IGh0dHA6Ly9ibG9n Lndwa2cub3JnDQo+IC0tDQo+IFRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlIGZyb20gdGhpcyBsaXN0OiBzZW5kIHRo ZSBsaW5lICJ1bnN1YnNjcmliZSBsaW51eC1uZnMiIGluIHRoZQ0KPiBib2R5IG9mIGEgbWVzc2Fn ZSB0byBtYWpvcmRvbW9Admdlci5rZXJuZWwub3JnIE1vcmUgbWFqb3Jkb21vIGluZm8gYXQNCj4g aHR0cDovL3ZnZXIua2VybmVsLm9yZy9tYWpvcmRvbW8taW5mby5odG1sDQo= ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: xattr support in NFS? 2012-11-12 15:56 ` Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-12 19:49 ` Matt W. Benjamin 2012-11-12 20:23 ` Myklebust, Trond 2012-11-13 7:54 ` DENIEL Philippe 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Matt W. Benjamin @ 2012-11-12 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trond Myklebust; +Cc: Tomasz Chmielewski, linux-nfs Can you restate reasoning why it will never do so, and whether this is the same as saying it will never implement named attributes? Thanks, Matt ----- "Trond Myklebust" <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com> wrote: > No. We will never support xattrs over NFS. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-nfs- > > owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Chmielewski > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:14 AM > > To: linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org > > Subject: xattr support in NFS? > > > > Does Linux support xattr in NFS? > > > > IF tries using it in both NFS3 and NFS4 under Debian Lenny (2.6.32, > both > > server and client), without success. > > > > # setfattr -n user.comment -v "this is a comment" /mnt/nfs > > setfattr: /mnt/nfs: Operation not supported > > > > > > -- > > Tomasz Chmielewski > > http://blog.wpkg.org > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-nfs" > in the > > body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info > at > > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > N�����r��y���b�X��ǧv�^�){.n�+����{���"��^n�r���z���h����&���G���h�(�階�ݢj"���m�����z�ޖ���f���h���~�m� -- Matt Benjamin The Linux Box 206 South Fifth Ave. Suite 150 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 http://linuxbox.com tel. 734-761-4689 fax. 734-769-8938 cel. 734-216-5309 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: xattr support in NFS? 2012-11-12 19:49 ` Matt W. Benjamin @ 2012-11-12 20:23 ` Myklebust, Trond 2012-11-13 7:54 ` DENIEL Philippe 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-12 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt W. Benjamin; +Cc: Tomasz Chmielewski, linux-nfs DQpPbiBNb24sIDIwMTItMTEtMTIgYXQgMTQ6NDkgLTA1MDAsIE1hdHQgVy4gQmVuamFtaW4gd3Jv dGU6DQo+IENhbiB5b3UgcmVzdGF0ZSByZWFzb25pbmcgd2h5IGl0IHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgZG8gc28s IGFuZCB3aGV0aGVyIHRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIHNhbWUgYXMgc2F5aW5nIGl0IHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgaW1w bGVtZW50IG5hbWVkIGF0dHJpYnV0ZXM/DQo+IA0KPiBUaGFua3MsDQo+IA0KPiBNYXR0DQo+IA0K DQpDZXJ0YWlubHkuLi4NCg0KeGF0dHJzIGFyZSB0aGUgYmFzdGFyZCBvZmZzcHJpbmcgZnJvbSBo ZWxsIG9mIGlvY3RsKCkgYW5kIHVzZXIgZGVmaW5lZA0KdHdpdHRlciBtZXNzYWdlLXNpemVkIG1l dGFkYXRhLiBUaGUgdXNlci1kZWZpbmVkIG1ldGFkYXRhIGNvdWxkDQp0aGVvcmV0aWNhbGx5IGJl IGV4cG9ydGVkIHNvIHRoYXQgd2UgY291bGQgYWxsIHJ1biAndHJhY2tlcicgcmVhbGx5DQpyZWFs bHkgc2xvd2x5IG92ZXIgTkZTLCBidXQgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBqdXN0IGVuY291cmFnZSB0aGUgcGVv cGxlIHdobw0KYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGF0IHJ1bm5pbmcgYW4gaW9jdGwoKSBvdmVyIHRoZSBuZXR3b3Jr IHdvdWxkIGJlIGEgcmVhbGx5IG5lYXQNCmlkZWEuDQoNCm5hbWVkIGF0dHJpYnV0ZXMgaGF2ZSBu b3RoaW5nIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggeGF0dHJzLiBUaGV5IGFyZSBhIGxpbWl0ZWQgZm9ybQ0Kb2YgdGhl IHN1YmZpbGUgY29uY2VwdCB0aGF0IGxvb2tzIGdvb2Qgb24gcGFwZXIsIGJ1dCBoYXMgcmFyZWx5 IGJlZW4NCnVzZWZ1bCBmb3IgYW55dGhpbmcgb3RoZXIgdGhhbiBzdG9yaW5nIGljb24gaW1hZ2Vz LiBNZWguLi4NCg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tICJUcm9uZCBNeWtsZWJ1c3QiIDxUcm9uZC5NeWtsZWJ1c3RA bmV0YXBwLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiA+IE5vLiBXZSB3aWxsIG5ldmVyIHN1cHBvcnQgeGF0 dHJzIG92ZXIgTkZTLg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+ID4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4g PiA+IEZyb206IGxpbnV4LW5mcy1vd25lckB2Z2VyLmtlcm5lbC5vcmcgW21haWx0bzpsaW51eC1u ZnMtDQo+ID4gPiBvd25lckB2Z2VyLmtlcm5lbC5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBUb21hc3ogQ2ht aWVsZXdza2kNCj4gPiA+IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMTIgMTA6MTQgQU0N Cj4gPiA+IFRvOiBsaW51eC1uZnNAdmdlci5rZXJuZWwub3JnDQo+ID4gPiBTdWJqZWN0OiB4YXR0 ciBzdXBwb3J0IGluIE5GUz8NCj4gPiA+IA0KPiA+ID4gRG9lcyBMaW51eCBzdXBwb3J0IHhhdHRy IGluIE5GUz8NCj4gPiA+IA0KPiA+ID4gSUYgdHJpZXMgdXNpbmcgaXQgaW4gYm90aCBORlMzIGFu ZCBORlM0IHVuZGVyIERlYmlhbiBMZW5ueSAoMi42LjMyLA0KPiA+IGJvdGgNCj4gPiA+IHNlcnZl ciBhbmQgY2xpZW50KSwgd2l0aG91dCBzdWNjZXNzLg0KPiA+ID4gDQo+ID4gPiAjIHNldGZhdHRy IC1uIHVzZXIuY29tbWVudCAtdiAidGhpcyBpcyBhIGNvbW1lbnQiIC9tbnQvbmZzDQo+ID4gPiBz ZXRmYXR0cjogL21udC9uZnM6IE9wZXJhdGlvbiBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkDQo+ID4gPiANCj4gPiA+ IA0KPiA+ID4gLS0NCj4gPiA+IFRvbWFzeiBDaG1pZWxld3NraQ0KPiA+ID4gaHR0cDovL2Jsb2cu d3BrZy5vcmcNCj4gPiA+IC0tDQo+ID4gPiBUbyB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSBmcm9tIHRoaXMgbGlzdDog c2VuZCB0aGUgbGluZSAidW5zdWJzY3JpYmUgbGludXgtbmZzIg0KPiA+IGluIHRoZQ0KPiA+ID4g Ym9keSBvZiBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgdG8gbWFqb3Jkb21vQHZnZXIua2VybmVsLm9yZyBNb3JlIG1ham9y ZG9tbyBpbmZvDQo+ID4gYXQNCj4gPiA+IGh0dHA6Ly92Z2VyLmtlcm5lbC5vcmcvbWFqb3Jkb21v LWluZm8uaHRtbA0KPiA+IE7vv73vv73vv73vv73vv71y77+977+9ee+/ve+/ve+/vWLvv71Y77+9 77+9x6d277+9Xu+/vSneunsubu+/vSvvv73vv73vv73vv71777+977+977+9Iu+/ve+/vV5u77+9 cu+/ve+/ve+/vXrvv73vv73vv71o77+977+977+977+9Ju+/ve+/ve+/vUfvv73vv73vv71o77+9 KO+/vemaju+/vd2iaiLvv73vv73vv71t77+977+977+977+977+9eu+/vd6W77+977+977+9Zu+/ ve+/ve+/vWjvv73vv73vv71+77+9be+/vQ0KPiANCg0KLS0gDQpUcm9uZCBNeWtsZWJ1c3QNCkxp bnV4IE5GUyBjbGllbnQgbWFpbnRhaW5lcg0KDQpOZXRBcHANClRyb25kLk15a2xlYnVzdEBuZXRh cHAuY29tDQp3d3cubmV0YXBwLmNvbQ0K ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: xattr support in NFS? 2012-11-12 19:49 ` Matt W. Benjamin 2012-11-12 20:23 ` Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-13 7:54 ` DENIEL Philippe [not found] ` <CAGue13o69+M4zDrHj3Cs5dSJz_bT49UPoBO=QKr+JCnXwYgcqg@mail.gmail.com> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: DENIEL Philippe @ 2012-11-13 7:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt W. Benjamin; +Cc: Trond Myklebust, Tomasz Chmielewski, linux-nfs A few years ago, SGI tried to promote "NFS3 XATTR", an extension to NFSv3 to add xattr support. It roughly added 3 functions to the protocol (GETXATTR, SETXATTR, LISTXATTR), in a similar way as what 9p.2000L does. Nothing but IRIX had this NFSv3 feature. As far as I know, it remained quite exotic and stayed a SGI's thing. Philippe Matt W. Benjamin a écrit : > Can you restate reasoning why it will never do so, and whether this is the same as saying it will never implement named attributes? > > Thanks, > > Matt > > ----- "Trond Myklebust" <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com> wrote: > > >> No. We will never support xattrs over NFS. >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-nfs- >>> owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Chmielewski >>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:14 AM >>> To: linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org >>> Subject: xattr support in NFS? >>> >>> Does Linux support xattr in NFS? >>> >>> IF tries using it in both NFS3 and NFS4 under Debian Lenny (2.6.32, >>> >> both >> >>> server and client), without success. >>> >>> # setfattr -n user.comment -v "this is a comment" /mnt/nfs >>> setfattr: /mnt/nfs: Operation not supported >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tomasz Chmielewski >>> http://blog.wpkg.org >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-nfs" >>> >> in the >> >>> body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info >>> >> at >> >>> http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html >>> >> N�����r��y���b�X��ǧv�^�){.n�+����{���"��^n�r���z���h����&���G���h�(�階�ݢj"���m�����z�ޖ���f���h���~�m� >> > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <CAGue13o69+M4zDrHj3Cs5dSJz_bT49UPoBO=QKr+JCnXwYgcqg@mail.gmail.com>]
* Re: xattr support in NFS? [not found] ` <CAGue13o69+M4zDrHj3Cs5dSJz_bT49UPoBO=QKr+JCnXwYgcqg@mail.gmail.com> @ 2012-11-14 15:03 ` Myklebust, Trond 2012-11-14 15:20 ` Matt W. Benjamin [not found] ` <CAGue13puoByUyEn6WAP4z+Csom7chv3VUsSAmb-ZP0gN7DaKTA@mail.gmail.com> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-14 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tigran.mkrtchyan Cc: DENIEL Philippe, Matt W. 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* Re: xattr support in NFS? 2012-11-14 15:03 ` Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-14 15:20 ` Matt W. Benjamin 2012-11-14 17:03 ` Myklebust, Trond [not found] ` <CAGue13puoByUyEn6WAP4z+Csom7chv3VUsSAmb-ZP0gN7DaKTA@mail.gmail.com> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Matt W. Benjamin @ 2012-11-14 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trond Myklebust Cc: DENIEL Philippe, Tomasz Chmielewski, linux-nfs, tigran mkrtchyan Actually, that reasoning sounds a little like a concession that the feature should be blocked precisely because it may be tremendously popular (useful). I don't think the argument that proplists can be the building blocks for new system--but also application--functionality is a good argument against them. ----- "Trond Myklebust" <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 11:47 +0100, Tigran Mkrtchyan wrote: > > That's bad news.... Currently we use 'magic files' to set/get user > > specific metadata like number of events, space reservation and > > different file retention policies. The hope was that all could be > done > > with named attributes. > > > > Tigran. > > > > The setting and querying of retention policies is already covered in > the > NFSv4.1 protocol without any need for any additions. Space > reservation > is already covered in NFSv4.2 (as are security labels - another > common > hobby-horse for xattr advocates). Why don't you implement those > instead > of wishing for a completely different way of doing the same thing? > > Your argument demonstrates precisely why we should never do xattrs > over > NFS. It makes it way too easy to go off and invent your own private > and > non-standard protocol for doing ioctl()-like RPC calls. > > > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:54 AM, DENIEL Philippe > > <philippe.deniel@cea.fr> wrote: > > A few years ago, SGI tried to promote "NFS3 XATTR", an > > extension to NFSv3 to add xattr support. It roughly added 3 > > functions to the protocol (GETXATTR, SETXATTR, LISTXATTR), > in > > a similar way as what 9p.2000L does. Nothing but IRIX had > this > > NFSv3 feature. As far as I know, it remained quite exotic > and > > stayed a SGI's thing. > > > > Philippe > > > > Matt W. Benjamin a écrit : > > > > Can you restate reasoning why it will never do so, > and > > whether this is the same as saying it will never > > implement named attributes? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Matt > > > > ----- "Trond Myklebust" > <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > No. We will never support xattrs over NFS. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: > linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org > > [mailto:linux-nfs- > > owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of > > Tomasz Chmielewski > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 > 10:14 > > AM > > To: linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org > > Subject: xattr support in NFS? > > > > Does Linux support xattr in NFS? > > > > IF tries using it in both NFS3 and > > NFS4 under Debian Lenny (2.6.32, > > > > both > > > > server and client), without > success. > > > > # setfattr -n user.comment -v "this > is > > a comment" /mnt/nfs > > setfattr: /mnt/nfs: Operation not > > supported > > > > > > -- > > Tomasz Chmielewski > > http://blog.wpkg.org > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send > > the line "unsubscribe linux-nfs" > > > > in the > > > > body of a message to > > majordomo@vger.kernel.org More > > majordomo info > > > > at > > > > > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > > N�����r��y���b�X��ǧv�^�){.n� > > +����{���"��^n�r���z���h����&���G���h�(�階 > > �ݢj"���m�����z�ޖ���f���h���~�m� > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe > > linux-nfs" in > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > > More majordomo info at > > http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > > > > > > > > -- > Trond Myklebust > Linux NFS client maintainer > > NetApp > Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com > www.netapp.com > N�����r��y���b�X��ǧv�^�){.n�+����{���"��^n�r���z���h����&���G���h�(�階�ݢj"���m�����z�ޖ���f���h���~�m� -- Matt Benjamin The Linux Box 206 South Fifth Ave. Suite 150 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 http://linuxbox.com tel. 734-761-4689 fax. 734-769-8938 cel. 734-216-5309 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: xattr support in NFS? 2012-11-14 15:20 ` Matt W. Benjamin @ 2012-11-14 17:03 ` Myklebust, Trond 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-14 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt W. 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[parent not found: <CAGue13puoByUyEn6WAP4z+Csom7chv3VUsSAmb-ZP0gN7DaKTA@mail.gmail.com>]
* Re: xattr support in NFS? [not found] ` <CAGue13puoByUyEn6WAP4z+Csom7chv3VUsSAmb-ZP0gN7DaKTA@mail.gmail.com> @ 2012-11-15 18:23 ` Myklebust, Trond 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Myklebust, Trond @ 2012-11-15 18:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tigran.mkrtchyan Cc: DENIEL Philippe, Matt W. Benjamin, Tomasz Chmielewski, linux-nfs T24gVGh1LCAyMDEyLTExLTE1IGF0IDE4OjUxICswMTAwLCBUaWdyYW4gTWtydGNoeWFuIHdyb3Rl Og0KPiANCj4gT24gV2VkLCBOb3YgMTQsIDIwMTIgYXQgNDowMyBQTSwgTXlrbGVidXN0LCBUcm9u ZA0KPiA8VHJvbmQuTXlrbGVidXN0QG5ldGFwcC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiAgICAgICAgIE9uIFdl ZCwgMjAxMi0xMS0xNCBhdCAxMTo0NyArMDEwMCwgVGlncmFuIE1rcnRjaHlhbiB3cm90ZToNCj4g ICAgICAgICA+IFRoYXQncyBiYWQgbmV3cy4uLi4gQ3VycmVudGx5IHdlIHVzZSAnbWFnaWMgZmls ZXMnIHRvDQo+ICAgICAgICAgc2V0L2dldCB1c2VyDQo+ICAgICAgICAgPiBzcGVjaWZpYyBtZXRh ZGF0YSBsaWtlIG51bWJlciBvZiBldmVudHMsIHNwYWNlIHJlc2VydmF0aW9uDQo+ICAgICAgICAg ICAgYW5kDQo+ICAgICAgICAgPiBkaWZmZXJlbnQgZmlsZSByZXRlbnRpb24gcG9saWNpZXMuIFRo ZSBob3BlIHdhcyB0aGF0IGFsbA0KPiAgICAgICAgIGNvdWxkIGJlIGRvbmUNCj4gICAgICAgICA+ IHdpdGggbmFtZWQgYXR0cmlidXRlcy4NCj4gICAgICAgICA+DQo+ICAgICAgICAgPiAgVGlncmFu Lg0KPiAgICAgICAgID4NCj4gICAgICAgICANCj4gICAgICAgICANCj4gICAgICAgICBUaGUgc2V0 dGluZyBhbmQgcXVlcnlpbmcgb2YgcmV0ZW50aW9uIHBvbGljaWVzIGlzIGFscmVhZHkNCj4gICAg ICAgICBjb3ZlcmVkIGluIHRoZQ0KPiAgICAgICAgIE5GU3Y0LjEgcHJvdG9jb2wgd2l0aG91dCBh bnkgbmVlZCBmb3IgYW55IGFkZGl0aW9ucy4gU3BhY2UNCj4gICAgICAgICByZXNlcnZhdGlvbg0K PiAgICAgICAgIGlzIGFscmVhZHkgY292ZXJlZCBpbiBORlN2NC4yIChhcyBhcmUgc2VjdXJpdHkg bGFiZWxzIC0NCj4gICAgICAgICBhbm90aGVyIGNvbW1vbg0KPiAgICAgICAgIGhvYmJ5LWhvcnNl IGZvciB4YXR0ciBhZHZvY2F0ZXMpLiBXaHkgZG9uJ3QgeW91IGltcGxlbWVudA0KPiAgICAgICAg IHRob3NlIGluc3RlYWQNCj4gICAgICAgICBvZiB3aXNoaW5nIGZvciBhIGNvbXBsZXRlbHkgZGlm ZmVyZW50IHdheSBvZiBkb2luZyB0aGUgc2FtZQ0KPiAgICAgICAgIHRoaW5nPw0KPiAgICAgICAg IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IEJlIGNhdXNlIHRoZSBvbmx5IHRvb2wgd2hpY2ggSSBoYXZlIG9uIHRoZSBj bGllbnQgc2lkZSBpcyBzZXQvZ2V0DQo+IHhhdHRyLg0KDQpZb3UncmUgbm90IHdyaXRpbmcgYSBj bGllbnQ7IHlvdSdyZSB3cml0aW5nIGEgc2VydmVyLg0KDQoNCi0tIA0KVHJvbmQgTXlrbGVidXN0 DQpMaW51eCBORlMgY2xpZW50IG1haW50YWluZXINCg0KTmV0QXBwDQpUcm9uZC5NeWtsZWJ1c3RA bmV0YXBwLmNvbQ0Kd3d3Lm5ldGFwcC5jb20NCg== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2012-11-15 18:23 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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[not found] <440439536.71.1352923952209.JavaMail.root@thunderbeast.private.linuxbox.com>
2012-11-14 20:13 ` xattr support in NFS? Matt W. Benjamin
2012-11-14 20:24 ` ! Myklebust, Trond
2012-11-12 15:14 xattr support in NFS? Tomasz Chmielewski
2012-11-12 15:56 ` Myklebust, Trond
2012-11-12 19:49 ` Matt W. Benjamin
2012-11-12 20:23 ` Myklebust, Trond
2012-11-13 7:54 ` DENIEL Philippe
[not found] ` <CAGue13o69+M4zDrHj3Cs5dSJz_bT49UPoBO=QKr+JCnXwYgcqg@mail.gmail.com>
2012-11-14 15:03 ` Myklebust, Trond
2012-11-14 15:20 ` Matt W. Benjamin
2012-11-14 17:03 ` Myklebust, Trond
[not found] ` <CAGue13puoByUyEn6WAP4z+Csom7chv3VUsSAmb-ZP0gN7DaKTA@mail.gmail.com>
2012-11-15 18:23 ` Myklebust, Trond
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