* [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA)
@ 2017-09-27 17:32 Alex Korobkin
2017-09-27 17:58 ` Michael Sweet
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alex Korobkin @ 2017-09-27 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: printing-architecture
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Hi all,
There is this interesting design of a cloud-like infrastructure called "IPP
Shared Infrastructure Extensions",
http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates/cs-ippinfra10-20150619-5100.18.pdf
Have you heard of anyone actually implementing that?
In general, I'm curious how people handle shared printers in the world of
public networks and no direct connection between a printer and a user's
device. That doc looks like an answer.
--
-Alex
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA)
2017-09-27 17:32 [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA) Alex Korobkin
@ 2017-09-27 17:58 ` Michael Sweet
2017-12-04 22:21 ` Alex Korobkin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Sweet @ 2017-09-27 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alex Korobkin; +Cc: printing-architecture
Alex,
It was precisely written to address cloud and split-network infrastructure issues. I did some (private) prototyping back when we did the spec, and some of that work is present in the current ippsample project maintained by the PWG/Apple at:
https://github.com/istopwg/ippsample
I still haven't finished adding IPP INFRA support to the ippsample project yet (lack of time) but ultimately we want to have a more robust publicly-available sample implementation available to show how to do it efficiently.
(I believe there are some commercial "release printing" solutions coming that will use IPP INFRA as well, although nothing that has been released AFAIK...)
> On Sep 27, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is this interesting design of a cloud-like infrastructure called "IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions", http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates/cs-ippinfra10-20150619-5100.18.pdf
>
> Have you heard of anyone actually implementing that?
>
> In general, I'm curious how people handle shared printers in the world of public networks and no direct connection between a printer and a user's device. That doc looks like an answer.
>
> --
> -Alex
> _______________________________________________
> Printing-architecture mailing list
> Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-architecture
_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA)
2017-09-27 17:58 ` Michael Sweet
@ 2017-12-04 22:21 ` Alex Korobkin
2017-12-05 2:30 ` Michael Sweet
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alex Korobkin @ 2017-12-04 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Sweet; +Cc: printing-architecture
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Thank you Michael.
Is there a way for IPP/IPP Everywhere printer to pull jobs from print
server, instead of server pushing them to the printer? For example, we tell
the printer to periodically check this server/proxy for waiting jobs, so
that it could download and print them.
It seems like it would fit nicely into this IPP INFRA idea, but I don't see
it mentioned. I got an impression that the only method is to push jobs to
the printer (from Proxy or from a print server).
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
> Alex,
>
> It was precisely written to address cloud and split-network infrastructure
> issues. I did some (private) prototyping back when we did the spec, and
> some of that work is present in the current ippsample project maintained by
> the PWG/Apple at:
>
> https://github.com/istopwg/ippsample
>
> I still haven't finished adding IPP INFRA support to the ippsample project
> yet (lack of time) but ultimately we want to have a more robust
> publicly-available sample implementation available to show how to do it
> efficiently.
>
> (I believe there are some commercial "release printing" solutions coming
> that will use IPP INFRA as well, although nothing that has been released
> AFAIK...)
>
>
> > On Sep 27, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There is this interesting design of a cloud-like infrastructure called
> "IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions", http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/
> candidates/cs-ippinfra10-20150619-5100.18.pdf
> >
> > Have you heard of anyone actually implementing that?
> >
> > In general, I'm curious how people handle shared printers in the world
> of public networks and no direct connection between a printer and a user's
> device. That doc looks like an answer.
> >
> > --
> > -Alex
> > _______________________________________________
> > Printing-architecture mailing list
> > Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-architecture
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
>
>
--
-Alex
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA)
2017-12-04 22:21 ` Alex Korobkin
@ 2017-12-05 2:30 ` Michael Sweet
2017-12-05 16:36 ` Alex Korobkin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Sweet @ 2017-12-05 2:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alex Korobkin; +Cc: printing-architecture
Alex,
That is exactly the point of IPP INFRA - the local Printer (in its Proxy role) fetches the jobs and documents from the Infrastructure (cloud) Printer. The Proxy can either be part of the Printer or another network device the relays the fetched jobs to the local Printer.
> On Dec 4, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you Michael.
>
> Is there a way for IPP/IPP Everywhere printer to pull jobs from print server, instead of server pushing them to the printer? For example, we tell the printer to periodically check this server/proxy for waiting jobs, so that it could download and print them.
>
> It seems like it would fit nicely into this IPP INFRA idea, but I don't see it mentioned. I got an impression that the only method is to push jobs to the printer (from Proxy or from a print server).
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
> Alex,
>
> It was precisely written to address cloud and split-network infrastructure issues. I did some (private) prototyping back when we did the spec, and some of that work is present in the current ippsample project maintained by the PWG/Apple at:
>
> https://github.com/istopwg/ippsample
>
> I still haven't finished adding IPP INFRA support to the ippsample project yet (lack of time) but ultimately we want to have a more robust publicly-available sample implementation available to show how to do it efficiently.
>
> (I believe there are some commercial "release printing" solutions coming that will use IPP INFRA as well, although nothing that has been released AFAIK...)
>
>
> > On Sep 27, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There is this interesting design of a cloud-like infrastructure called "IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions", http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates/cs-ippinfra10-20150619-5100.18.pdf
> >
> > Have you heard of anyone actually implementing that?
> >
> > In general, I'm curious how people handle shared printers in the world of public networks and no direct connection between a printer and a user's device. That doc looks like an answer.
> >
> > --
> > -Alex
> > _______________________________________________
> > Printing-architecture mailing list
> > Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-architecture
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Alex
_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA)
2017-12-05 2:30 ` Michael Sweet
@ 2017-12-05 16:36 ` Alex Korobkin
2017-12-05 18:55 ` Michael Sweet
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alex Korobkin @ 2017-12-05 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Sweet; +Cc: printing-architecture
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I see, thank you. Do you think it's possible for a printer manufacturer to
look at the doc and implement Proxy role part in printer firmware,
expecting someone else to implement the infra/cloud printer?
I'm thinking about a distant future where printers can be configured as
cloud/infra clients, and cloud or infra services are provided by various
companies, but everything is based on some common standard and can
interoperate just fine.
On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
> Alex,
>
> That is exactly the point of IPP INFRA - the local Printer (in its Proxy
> role) fetches the jobs and documents from the Infrastructure (cloud)
> Printer. The Proxy can either be part of the Printer or another network
> device the relays the fetched jobs to the local Printer.
>
>
> > On Dec 4, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Michael.
> >
> > Is there a way for IPP/IPP Everywhere printer to pull jobs from print
> server, instead of server pushing them to the printer? For example, we tell
> the printer to periodically check this server/proxy for waiting jobs, so
> that it could download and print them.
> >
> > It seems like it would fit nicely into this IPP INFRA idea, but I don't
> see it mentioned. I got an impression that the only method is to push jobs
> to the printer (from Proxy or from a print server).
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com> wrote:
> > Alex,
> >
> > It was precisely written to address cloud and split-network
> infrastructure issues. I did some (private) prototyping back when we did
> the spec, and some of that work is present in the current ippsample project
> maintained by the PWG/Apple at:
> >
> > https://github.com/istopwg/ippsample
> >
> > I still haven't finished adding IPP INFRA support to the ippsample
> project yet (lack of time) but ultimately we want to have a more robust
> publicly-available sample implementation available to show how to do it
> efficiently.
> >
> > (I believe there are some commercial "release printing" solutions coming
> that will use IPP INFRA as well, although nothing that has been released
> AFAIK...)
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 27, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > There is this interesting design of a cloud-like infrastructure called
> "IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions", http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/
> candidates/cs-ippinfra10-20150619-5100.18.pdf
> > >
> > > Have you heard of anyone actually implementing that?
> > >
> > > In general, I'm curious how people handle shared printers in the world
> of public networks and no direct connection between a printer and a user's
> device. That doc looks like an answer.
> > >
> > > --
> > > -Alex
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Printing-architecture mailing list
> > > Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org
> > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-
> architecture
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Alex
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
>
>
--
-Alex
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA)
2017-12-05 16:36 ` Alex Korobkin
@ 2017-12-05 18:55 ` Michael Sweet
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Michael Sweet @ 2017-12-05 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alex Korobkin; +Cc: printing-architecture
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4176 bytes --]
Alex,
It is entirely possible for a printer manufacturer to read the document and implement the Proxy role.
The ippsample code will (once I get another few days of free time to work on it) provide a fully-functional prototype for both the Infrastructure Printer and Proxy roles, so then vendors will have something to test against.
> On Dec 5, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I see, thank you. Do you think it's possible for a printer manufacturer to look at the doc and implement Proxy role part in printer firmware, expecting someone else to implement the infra/cloud printer?
>
> I'm thinking about a distant future where printers can be configured as cloud/infra clients, and cloud or infra services are provided by various companies, but everything is based on some common standard and can interoperate just fine.
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com <mailto:msweet@apple.com>> wrote:
> Alex,
>
> That is exactly the point of IPP INFRA - the local Printer (in its Proxy role) fetches the jobs and documents from the Infrastructure (cloud) Printer. The Proxy can either be part of the Printer or another network device the relays the fetched jobs to the local Printer.
>
>
> > On Dec 4, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com <mailto:korobkin%2Bop@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Michael.
> >
> > Is there a way for IPP/IPP Everywhere printer to pull jobs from print server, instead of server pushing them to the printer? For example, we tell the printer to periodically check this server/proxy for waiting jobs, so that it could download and print them.
> >
> > It seems like it would fit nicely into this IPP INFRA idea, but I don't see it mentioned. I got an impression that the only method is to push jobs to the printer (from Proxy or from a print server).
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com <mailto:msweet@apple.com>> wrote:
> > Alex,
> >
> > It was precisely written to address cloud and split-network infrastructure issues. I did some (private) prototyping back when we did the spec, and some of that work is present in the current ippsample project maintained by the PWG/Apple at:
> >
> > https://github.com/istopwg/ippsample <https://github.com/istopwg/ippsample>
> >
> > I still haven't finished adding IPP INFRA support to the ippsample project yet (lack of time) but ultimately we want to have a more robust publicly-available sample implementation available to show how to do it efficiently.
> >
> > (I believe there are some commercial "release printing" solutions coming that will use IPP INFRA as well, although nothing that has been released AFAIK...)
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 27, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Alex Korobkin <korobkin+op@gmail.com <mailto:korobkin%2Bop@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > There is this interesting design of a cloud-like infrastructure called "IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions", http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates/cs-ippinfra10-20150619-5100.18.pdf <http://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates/cs-ippinfra10-20150619-5100.18.pdf>
> > >
> > > Have you heard of anyone actually implementing that?
> > >
> > > In general, I'm curious how people handle shared printers in the world of public networks and no direct connection between a printer and a user's device. That doc looks like an answer.
> > >
> > > --
> > > -Alex
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Printing-architecture mailing list
> > > Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org <mailto:Printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org>
> > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-architecture <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-architecture>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -Alex
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Alex
_________________________________________________________
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer
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2017-09-27 17:32 [Printing-architecture] IPP Shared Infrastructure Extensions (INFRA) Alex Korobkin
2017-09-27 17:58 ` Michael Sweet
2017-12-04 22:21 ` Alex Korobkin
2017-12-05 2:30 ` Michael Sweet
2017-12-05 16:36 ` Alex Korobkin
2017-12-05 18:55 ` Michael Sweet
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