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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>
Cc: ksummit <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Dave Airlie <airlied@linux.ie>,
	Doug Ledford <dledford@redhat.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] "Maintainer summit" invitation discussion
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 12:40:47 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+55aFxFyX-6y0MH2QivC+GAVThEFNHVKc3DBZJzDBc9JU_nCQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20188905.kHbMkj7sB6@avalon>

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Laurent Pinchart
<laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> wrote:
>
> Agreed, for a maintainer summit to be useful, we need to have multiple sides
> present. Gathering core maintainers with key representatives of the downstream
> communities around the table is great, but I think we would be missing one
> category whose opinion is equally important: kernel developers.
>
> When everything goes well developers can be represented by their maintainers.
> That's the case where the process flows smoothly, so there isn't likely to be
> much to discuss. However, problems occurring in the maintenance process are
> likely to result in, if not conflicts, at least different views between
> maintainers and developers, in which case developers won't be represented at
> the summit.
>
> I'm not sure how to handle that. I certainly don't want to increase the number
> of attendees to include key representatives of developers (and while I'd be
> very curious to see how they would be selected, I doubt it would work in
> practice), but I also believe we need to address this class of maintainership
> issues.

I do agree that it would be a great thing to have a "bitch at
maintainers" session where developers get to vent frustration at how
their patches are (or are _not_) accepted by maintainers.

I know we've had issues in the VFS layer, with Al sometimes
effectively dropping off the intenet for a time, for example.  And I'm
sure it happens elsewhere too, I'm just aware of the VFS side because
it's one of the areas where I end up personally being a secondary
maintainer.

But the problem with that "bitch at maintainers" thing is that I can't
for the life of me come up with a sane small set of people to do that.
So I don't see it happening ;(

Anyway, I have tried to gather "other groups" that aren't in that
top-10 maintainers list, but are examples of people "around" the
maintenance issues:

 - stable and linux-next:

   Ben Hutchings (stable)
   Stephen Rothwell (linux-next)

 - Infrastructure:

   Konstantin Ryabitsev (k.org)
   Fengguang Wu (kernel test robot)
   Steven Rostedt (ktest)
   Shuah Khan (tools/testing)
   Thorsten Leemhuis (regression tracking)
   Jonathan Corbet (documentation)

 - Security:

   Andy Lutomirski (security and core)
   Kees Cook (security)
   James Morris (security subsystem)

 - distro people:

   Laura Abbott (Fedora)
   Jiri Kosina (MM? JM?) (Suse)
   Rom Lemarchand (Android)

 - Hw vendor people?
 - Sponsor people?

but I can't come up with a sane set of "leaf developers" or anything
like that. We've just got too many. That's obviously a good problem to
have, but it doesn't fit with the maintainer summit, because unless
somebody can come up with some kind of prototypical spokesperson for
that group (and to me, that doesn't seem likely), I don't see how to
do it.

(And I still suspect that we do want coverage of some remaining
maintainership areas, ie filesystem and block layer, because the
"top-10 maintainers" don't cover that at all. And I haven't heard
suggestions for the networking side either, still assuming that Daem
isn't interested since he never has been before..)

                     Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2017-04-19 19:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 135+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-04-18 18:59 [Ksummit-discuss] "Maintainer summit" invitation discussion Linus Torvalds
2017-04-18 19:50 ` Takashi Iwai
2017-04-18 20:13   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-04-18 20:21     ` Jiri Kosina
2017-04-18 20:36       ` Takashi Iwai
2017-04-18 20:29     ` Takashi Iwai
2017-04-18 20:33     ` Laura Abbott
2017-04-18 21:15     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2017-04-19 22:36       ` Jonathan Corbet
2017-04-19 22:41         ` Jiri Kosina
2017-04-19 23:36           ` Josh Triplett
2017-04-19 23:51             ` Jiri Kosina
2017-04-20  1:04               ` Josh Triplett
2017-04-20  7:38                 ` Jani Nikula
2017-04-20  5:23           ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-04-20 13:33             ` James Bottomley
2017-04-20 14:40               ` Alexey Dobriyan
2017-04-20 14:52                 ` Ingo Molnar
2017-04-20 14:47               ` Jonathan Corbet
2017-04-20 15:34                 ` James Bottomley
2017-04-20 11:25         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2017-04-19 15:37     ` Doug Ledford
2017-04-19 16:18       ` Linus Torvalds
2017-04-19 16:24         ` Doug Ledford
2017-04-19 18:11         ` Justin Forbes
2017-04-19 21:52           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2017-04-19 18:21         ` Laura Abbott
2017-04-20  8:31           ` Jani Nikula
2017-04-20 12:35             ` Mark Brown
2017-04-20 13:01               ` Jani Nikula
2017-04-21  8:41             ` Alexandre Belloni
2017-04-21 14:46               ` David Miller
2017-04-20  8:17         ` Jani Nikula
2017-04-20 10:59           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2017-04-20 12:22             ` Jani Nikula
2017-04-20 13:03               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2017-04-20 14:49             ` Mark Brown
2017-04-19 19:25     ` Laurent Pinchart
2017-04-19 19:40       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2017-04-19 19:45         ` Jens Axboe
2017-04-19 19:50         ` Laurent Pinchart
2017-04-19 19:55           ` James Bottomley
2017-04-20  8:26             ` Daniel Vetter
2017-04-20 13:25               ` James Bottomley
2017-04-25 16:02             ` Bart Van Assche
2017-04-25 16:38               ` Guenter Roeck
2017-04-25 16:56               ` Mark Brown
2017-04-26  3:47                 ` Bart Van Assche
2017-04-26  8:39                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2017-04-26 14:21                   ` Mark Brown
2017-04-26 14:51                     ` David Miller
2017-04-26 15:15                       ` Mark Brown
2017-04-26  8:42               ` Dan Carpenter
2017-04-26 13:58                 ` Martin K. Petersen
2017-04-26 14:15                   ` Andrew Lunn
2017-04-26 15:42                     ` Martin K. Petersen
2017-04-26 14:31                   ` James Bottomley
2017-04-26 14:34                     ` Jiri Kosina
2017-04-26 14:43                       ` James Bottomley
2017-04-27  9:06                         ` Jani Nikula
2017-04-27 10:41                           ` Lee Jones
2017-04-27 11:02                             ` Hannes Reinecke
2017-04-27 14:17                               ` James Bottomley
2017-04-28  0:24                                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-04-27 15:40                           ` Wolfram Sang
2017-04-26 15:02                 ` Bart Van Assche
2017-04-26 15:25                   ` James Bottomley
2017-04-26 15:36                     ` Mark Brown
2017-04-19 20:14           ` Josh Triplett
2017-04-19 21:30             ` Laurent Pinchart
2017-04-20  5:44             ` Julia Lawall
2017-04-20  8:54               ` Laurent Pinchart
2017-04-19 19:58         ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2017-04-19 20:20         ` Jiri Kosina
2017-04-18 20:00 ` Dave Airlie
2017-04-18 20:29   ` Laurent Pinchart
2017-04-18 20:38   ` Daniel Vetter
2017-04-18 20:56     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-04-18 21:39       ` Daniel Vetter
2017-04-20 19:02         ` Mark Brown
2017-04-18 20:06 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2017-04-18 20:11 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2017-04-18 20:21   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-04-25 15:09     ` Chris Mason
2017-04-19  0:22 ` Stephen Rothwell
2017-04-19 13:35   ` Shuah Khan
2017-04-19 20:20 ` James Bottomley
2017-04-19 20:27   ` Jiri Kosina
2017-04-20 10:24   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2017-04-21  8:51     ` Alexandre Belloni
2017-04-21  8:55       ` Julia Lawall
2017-04-21  8:59       ` Wolfram Sang
2017-04-21 14:45         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2017-04-21 10:34     ` Michael Ellerman
2017-04-21 15:06       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2017-04-21 23:37         ` James Bottomley
2017-04-20 16:01   ` Dan Williams
2017-04-21 11:07   ` Michael Ellerman
2017-04-21 17:06     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2017-04-21 23:19   ` Bjorn Helgaas
2017-04-19 20:26 ` Arnd Bergmann
2017-04-20  8:53   ` Daniel Vetter
2017-04-20 11:30     ` Arnd Bergmann
2017-04-20 13:46       ` Daniel Vetter
2017-04-24 14:02         ` Olof Johansson
2017-04-24 16:17         ` Linus Walleij
2017-04-24 17:29           ` Olof Johansson
2017-04-24 17:58             ` Mark Brown
2017-04-25  9:10           ` Lee Jones
2017-04-29 21:00             ` Daniel Vetter
2017-04-29 21:39               ` James Bottomley
2017-04-30 12:45                 ` Mark Brown
2017-04-30 19:12               ` Olof Johansson
2017-05-02  8:09               ` Lee Jones
2017-04-20 19:26     ` Mark Brown
2017-04-21 11:03   ` Alexandre Belloni
2017-04-24 13:14     ` Nicolas Ferre
2017-04-19 21:05 ` Andy Lutomirski
2017-04-19 21:32   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-05-23 17:58     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-05-23 18:17       ` Randy Dunlap
2017-05-23 18:47       ` Thomas Gleixner
2017-05-23 20:34         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-05-23 19:29       ` James Bottomley
2017-05-24  3:34       ` David Miller
2017-05-24  4:55         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-04-21  0:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2017-09-20 14:45 ` Doug Ledford
2017-09-20 15:07   ` James Bottomley
2017-09-20 15:22     ` Doug Ledford
2017-09-20 15:31       ` James Bottomley
2017-09-20 15:58         ` Doug Ledford
2017-09-20 22:55           ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-09-21  9:33             ` Leon Romanovsky
2017-09-21  4:54     ` James Morris

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