* [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed
@ 2013-06-17 4:22 earl middlebrook
2013-06-17 6:57 ` Jean Delvare
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: earl middlebrook @ 2013-06-17 4:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lm-sensors
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Hello,
I am running Ubuntu 12.04 on a lenovo l512 laptop. It has been running a
bit hot (to the touch) and since I run it full throttle quite often I
thought I should monitor the hardware more closely. I installed lm-sensors
from the Software Centre, ran sensors detect (only detected coretemp),
installed psensors and restarted.
The first thing to note is that the temp rarely starts or idles below 60C.
The second, and most apparent, is that the fan speed indicated is obviously
erroneous. It hovers around 790 when idling and when it is very hot (core
~95C) it drops to 550. The fan is obviously spinning up a little, but
still not as fast as i would expect for a computer about to light itself on
fire. If you look at the temp and fan speed graph generated by Psensors,
there seems to be a strong negative correlation. This leads me to think
that at least the fan if not all the sensor outputs are off by some
factor.
If you have heard of this problem or know a fix let me know. I would be
happy to provide any more details. Although I dont know where the relevant
data is dumped.
Thanks in advance!
Earl
--
Earl Middlebrook
Potts Lab
University of Utah
Lab phone 801 585 9678
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_______________________________________________
lm-sensors mailing list
lm-sensors@lm-sensors.org
http://lists.lm-sensors.org/mailman/listinfo/lm-sensors
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed
2013-06-17 4:22 [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed earl middlebrook
@ 2013-06-17 6:57 ` Jean Delvare
2013-06-21 10:16 ` Jean Delvare
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jean Delvare @ 2013-06-17 6:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lm-sensors
Hi Earl,
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:22:00 -0600, earl middlebrook wrote:
> I am running Ubuntu 12.04 on a lenovo l512 laptop. It has been running a
> bit hot (to the touch) and since I run it full throttle quite often I
> thought I should monitor the hardware more closely. I installed lm-sensors
> from the Software Centre, ran sensors detect (only detected coretemp),
> installed psensors and restarted.
>
> The first thing to note is that the temp rarely starts or idles below 60C.
> The second, and most apparent, is that the fan speed indicated is obviously
> erroneous.
The coretemp driver only reports temperatures, not fan speed. So you
must have another driver already loaded which reports the fan speed. On
a Lenovo laptop it may be the thinkpad_acpi driver. Please show us the
complete output of sensors so we get a better idea of which drivers are
used and what they do report. Please also tell us what kernel version
you are running.
> It hovers around 790 when idling and when it is very hot (core
> ~95C) it drops to 550. The fan is obviously spinning up a little, but
> still not as fast as i would expect for a computer about to light itself on
> fire. If you look at the temp and fan speed graph generated by Psensors,
> there seems to be a strong negative correlation. This leads me to think
> that at least the fan if not all the sensor outputs are off by some
> factor.
Please check in the BIOS if you can change settings related to thermal
management or fan speed control.
> If you have heard of this problem or know a fix let me know. I would be
> happy to provide any more details. Although I dont know where the relevant
> data is dumped.
I had not heard of this before, but searching bugzilla.kernel.org for
similar cases I found this report:
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id'792
The good news is that you're not alone. The bad news is that this bug
report is getting old but the bug is still not fixed, apparently it's a
difficult one.
Henrique, as the maintainer of the thinkpad_acpi driver, is there
anything you can do to help, or is the problem outside your
jurisdiction?
--
Jean Delvare
_______________________________________________
lm-sensors mailing list
lm-sensors@lm-sensors.org
http://lists.lm-sensors.org/mailman/listinfo/lm-sensors
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed
2013-06-17 4:22 [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed earl middlebrook
2013-06-17 6:57 ` Jean Delvare
@ 2013-06-21 10:16 ` Jean Delvare
2013-06-28 14:34 ` earl middlebrook
2013-06-29 12:04 ` Jean Delvare
3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jean Delvare @ 2013-06-21 10:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lm-sensors
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed
2013-06-17 4:22 [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed earl middlebrook
2013-06-17 6:57 ` Jean Delvare
2013-06-21 10:16 ` Jean Delvare
@ 2013-06-28 14:34 ` earl middlebrook
2013-06-29 12:04 ` Jean Delvare
3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: earl middlebrook @ 2013-06-28 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lm-sensors
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Hi all,
Sorry for the delay in responce, work conference...
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 4:16 AM, Jean Delvare <khali@linux-fr.org> wrote:
> Hi Earl,
>
> Please keep the list included, so that your messages get archived.
>
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:21:14 -0600, earl middlebrook wrote:
> > Ubuntu did have thinkpad-acpi running. I blacklisted it as suggested by
> > Henrique. Now the output of sensors is:
> > earl@ElFuturo[earl]
> > sensors [11:31AM]
> > acpitz-virtual-0
> > Adapter: Virtual device
> > temp1: +70.0°C (crit = +105.0°C)
> >
> > coretemp-isa-0000
> > Adapter: ISA adapter
> > Core 0: +61.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)
> > Core 2: +64.0°C (high = +95.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)
> >
> > This seems much more reasonable. Many of the temps detected by
> > thinkpad-acpi were 0C of fluctuating off the charts.
> > The cores temps are approximately the same as before. They fluctuate
> > faster though. Something about the update rate I suppose.
>
> The coretemp driver updates its values every second, and these
> integrated digital sensors are very prompt to reflect temperature
> changes.
>
> The values are relatively high but still reasonable: thermal margin is
> 31°C (not actual degrees Celsius BTW, but close enough.)
>
I assume the above are idle temperatures though, you should worry if
> the temperatures go too high when the machine is under load.
>
> > > (...)
> > > I had not heard of this before, but searching bugzilla.kernel.org for
> > > similar cases I found this report:
> > > https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27792
> > >
> > > The good news is that you're not alone. The bad news is that this bug
> > > report is getting old but the bug is still not fixed, apparently it's a
> > > difficult one.
> >
> > It does look like it is not getting much attention any more...
>
> That's right. I've added a comment pointing to your report.
>
> > I dont understand much of what is going on but it sounds different than
> my
> > problem, at least on the surface. For instance, I have no problems with
> > the buttons and the temps seem strange even after a cold boot.
>
> Yes, I have noticed these differences too, but I still suspect a common
> root cause.
>
> > > I'd recommend blacklisting thinkpad-acpi and doing a full cold boot of
> the
> > > box (remove all batteries and AC, push power button at least ten times
> for
> > > at least three seconds each, and the last one for at least 15
> seconds), to
> > > make sure thinkpad-acpi is not actually making matters worse.
> >
> > Done. It removes non-sense sensor readings. CPU still looks very hot.
> > The above sensors output was with only firefox up.
> >
> > > That said, usually these boxes work through the standard ACPI
> interface, and
> > > they _really_ depend on GPU and CPU throttling/clock/voltage control
> to keep
> > > cool. Especially if the box has a cracked thermal interface or some
> other
> > > defect.
> >
> > Is this just a matter of getting in there and having a look?
>
> First you should ensure that all power saving options are enabled.
>
> For the CPU, these are C states and cpufreq (although the usefulness of
> cpufreq with good C states can be discussed.) Please install powertop,
> then check the Idle stats and Frequency stats panels (use the Tab key
> to navigate between these in recent versions of powertop.) You should
> see multiple C states in the first and multiple frequencies in the
> second.
>
> When the machine is idle, the CPU should spend most of the time at the
> lowest C states and the lowest frequency. If this isn't the case then
> something is wrong, either in the BIOS or in the kernel.
>
Here are Idle stats from PowerTOP:
** Package | Core | CPU
0 CPU 2
| | C0 active
4.5% 0.5%
| | POLL
0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
| | C1-NHM
0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
C3 (pc3) 16.9% | C3 (cc3) 15.0% | C3-NHM 3.8% 0.9 ms
12.8% 32.3 ms
C6 (pc6) 59.9% | C6 (cc6) 76.3% | C6-NHM 89.3% 3.7 ms
86.3% 4.0 ms
| Core | CPU
1 CPU 3
| | C0 active
1.6% 0.9%
| | POLL
0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
| | C1-NHM
0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
| C3 (cc3) 8.5% | C3-NHM 4.3%
1.1 ms 5.3% 2.3 ms
| C6 (cc6) 86.0% | C6-NHM 92.7%
3.3 ms 93.2% 3.3 ms
Here are Frequency Stats:
Package | Core | CPU 0 CPU 2
| | Actual 2.0 Ghz 1.8 Ghz
Turbo Mode 14.8% | Turbo Mode 12.8% | Turbo Mode 12.5% 5.3%
2.40 Ghz 0.0% | 2.40 Ghz 0.0% | 2.40 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
2.27 Ghz 0.1% | 2.27 Ghz 0.1% | 2.27 Ghz 0.1% 0.0%
2.14 Ghz 0.0% | 2.14 Ghz 0.0% | 2.14 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
2.00 Ghz 0.0% | 2.00 Ghz 0.0% | 2.00 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
1.87 Ghz 0.0% | 1.87 Ghz 0.0% | 1.87 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
1.74 Ghz 0.9% | 1.74 Ghz 0.6% | 1.74 Ghz 0.5% 0.3%
1.60 Ghz 0.0% | 1.60 Ghz 0.0% | 1.60 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
1466 Mhz 0.0% | 1466 Mhz 0.0% | 1466 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
1333 Mhz 0.1% | 1333 Mhz 0.0% | 1333 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
| Core | CPU 1 CPU 3
| | Actual 1.8 Ghz 1.8 Ghz
| Turbo Mode 10.9% | Turbo Mode 10.2% 8.7%
| 2.40 Ghz 0.0% | 2.40 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
| 2.27 Ghz 0.1% | 2.27 Ghz 0.1% 0.0%
| 2.14 Ghz 0.0% | 2.14 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
| 2.00 Ghz 0.0% | 2.00 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
| 1.87 Ghz 0.0% | 1.87 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
| 1.74 Ghz 0.8% | 1.74 Ghz 0.8% 0.8%
| 1.60 Ghz 0.0% | 1.60 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
| 1466 Mhz 0.0% | 1466 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
| 1333 Mhz 0.1% | 1333 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
Noticed this in Tunables:
>> Good Using 'ondemand' cpufreq governor
Could I try to toggle it and see if there is a conflict?
> You may also check the power management of the graphics chip. But that
> depends a lot on which graphics chip you have and which driver you use
> for it.
>
> > > We really need a dump of the kernel boot messages to know more.
> >
> > Could you direct me to where this is located so I may pass it along?
>
> Right after boot, just do:
> $ dmesg > /tmp/dmesg.txt
> And share the file with us (send it via private e-mail or post it to
> some pastebin site.)
>
> Private E-mail on the way.
> --
> Jean Delvare
>
--
Earl Middlebrook
Potts Lab
University of Utah
Lab phone 801 585 9678
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_______________________________________________
lm-sensors mailing list
lm-sensors@lm-sensors.org
http://lists.lm-sensors.org/mailman/listinfo/lm-sensors
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed
2013-06-17 4:22 [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed earl middlebrook
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2013-06-28 14:34 ` earl middlebrook
@ 2013-06-29 12:04 ` Jean Delvare
3 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jean Delvare @ 2013-06-29 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lm-sensors
Hi Earl,
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 08:34:26 -0600, earl middlebrook wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 4:16 AM, Jean Delvare <khali@linux-fr.org> wrote:
> > First you should ensure that all power saving options are enabled.
> >
> > For the CPU, these are C states and cpufreq (although the usefulness of
> > cpufreq with good C states can be discussed.) Please install powertop,
> > then check the Idle stats and Frequency stats panels (use the Tab key
> > to navigate between these in recent versions of powertop.) You should
> > see multiple C states in the first and multiple frequencies in the
> > second.
> >
> > When the machine is idle, the CPU should spend most of the time at the
> > lowest C states and the lowest frequency. If this isn't the case then
> > something is wrong, either in the BIOS or in the kernel.
>
> Here are Idle stats from PowerTOP:
>
> ** Package | Core | CPU
> 0 CPU 2
> | | C0 active
> 4.5% 0.5%
> | | POLL
> 0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
> | | C1-NHM
> 0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
> C3 (pc3) 16.9% | C3 (cc3) 15.0% | C3-NHM 3.8% 0.9 ms
> 12.8% 32.3 ms
> C6 (pc6) 59.9% | C6 (cc6) 76.3% | C6-NHM 89.3% 3.7 ms
> 86.3% 4.0 ms
>
> | Core | CPU
> 1 CPU 3
> | | C0 active
> 1.6% 0.9%
> | | POLL
> 0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
> | | C1-NHM
> 0.0% 0.0 ms 0.0% 0.0 ms
> | C3 (cc3) 8.5% | C3-NHM 4.3%
> 1.1 ms 5.3% 2.3 ms
> | C6 (cc6) 86.0% | C6-NHM 92.7%
> 3.3 ms 93.2% 3.3 ms
This looks reasonable, most time is spent in deepest C state (C6.)
> Here are Frequency Stats:
>
> Package | Core | CPU 0 CPU 2
> | | Actual 2.0 Ghz 1.8 Ghz
> Turbo Mode 14.8% | Turbo Mode 12.8% | Turbo Mode 12.5% 5.3%
> 2.40 Ghz 0.0% | 2.40 Ghz 0.0% | 2.40 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> 2.27 Ghz 0.1% | 2.27 Ghz 0.1% | 2.27 Ghz 0.1% 0.0%
> 2.14 Ghz 0.0% | 2.14 Ghz 0.0% | 2.14 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> 2.00 Ghz 0.0% | 2.00 Ghz 0.0% | 2.00 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> 1.87 Ghz 0.0% | 1.87 Ghz 0.0% | 1.87 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> 1.74 Ghz 0.9% | 1.74 Ghz 0.6% | 1.74 Ghz 0.5% 0.3%
> 1.60 Ghz 0.0% | 1.60 Ghz 0.0% | 1.60 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> 1466 Mhz 0.0% | 1466 Mhz 0.0% | 1466 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
> 1333 Mhz 0.1% | 1333 Mhz 0.0% | 1333 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
>
> | Core | CPU 1 CPU 3
> | | Actual 1.8 Ghz 1.8 Ghz
> | Turbo Mode 10.9% | Turbo Mode 10.2% 8.7%
> | 2.40 Ghz 0.0% | 2.40 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> | 2.27 Ghz 0.1% | 2.27 Ghz 0.1% 0.0%
> | 2.14 Ghz 0.0% | 2.14 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> | 2.00 Ghz 0.0% | 2.00 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> | 1.87 Ghz 0.0% | 1.87 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> | 1.74 Ghz 0.8% | 1.74 Ghz 0.8% 0.8%
> | 1.60 Ghz 0.0% | 1.60 Ghz 0.0% 0.0%
> | 1466 Mhz 0.0% | 1466 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
> | 1333 Mhz 0.1% | 1333 Mhz 0.0% 0.0%
On my own system there is a last line, "Idle", where most time is
spent. I am surprised you don't have it. The total is way less than
100% so I can only guess that the rest of the time is spent in Idle
state. If this is the case then it's all OK.
> Noticed this in Tunables:
> >> Good Using 'ondemand' cpufreq governor
>
> Could I try to toggle it and see if there is a conflict?
No, that's the other way around. "Good" means that powertop thinks this
is a good thing with regards to power consumption (and I would agree,
even though deep C states save more power than frequency scaling on
recent Intel CPU.) The lines you should investigate are the "bad" ones. I
have many of these on my own system, BTW :(
--
Jean Delvare
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2013-06-17 4:22 [lm-sensors] inaccurate fan speed earl middlebrook
2013-06-17 6:57 ` Jean Delvare
2013-06-21 10:16 ` Jean Delvare
2013-06-28 14:34 ` earl middlebrook
2013-06-29 12:04 ` Jean Delvare
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