From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> To: Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net> Cc: "Ben Greear" <greearb@candelatech.com>, "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@toke.dk>, "Rajkumar Manoharan" <rmanohar@codeaurora.org>, Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>, linux-wireless <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>, ath10k <ath10k@lists.infradead.org>, "Felix Fietkau" <nbd@nbd.name> Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [PATCH v3 3/6] mac80211: Add airtime accounting and scheduling to TXQs Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:04:43 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CAA93jw60e-oV_axeNg6JoJGXhjUxbr==nnRvoBiJS3eQF_ZO3A@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <46F43681-DF84-4E08-9426-328BA7AE1CED@superduper.net> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 4:52 PM Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net> wrote: > > Low-e glass, it’s a thin metallic film used to reflect infra-red to keep heat in or out. Totally blocks/reflects RF. Very cool. I imagine it's hell on cell too? I can see this stuff becoming very popular in places where keeping the good wifi in is important. Could cover floors and ceilings with it to. Cars could be tempest rated... /me goes looking for stock to buy > Simon > > On Nov 19, 2018, at 4:20 PM, Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com> wrote: > > On 11/19/2018 04:13 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 3:56 PM Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com> wrote: > > > On 11/19/2018 03:47 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 3:30 PM Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net> wrote: > > > > > On Nov 19, 2018, at 2:44 PM, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> wrote: > > Dave Taht <dave@taht.net> writes: > > Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> writes: > > Felix Fietkau <nbd@nbd.name> writes: > > On 2018-11-14 18:40, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote: > > This part doesn't really make much sense to me, but maybe I'm > misunderstanding how the code works. > Let's assume we have a driver like ath9k or mt76, which tries to keep a > > …. > > > Well, there's going to be a BQL-like queue limit (but for airtime) on > top, which drivers can opt-in to if the hardware has too much queueing. > > > Very happy to read this - I first talked to Dave Taht about the need for Time Queue Limits more than 5 years ago! > > > Michal faked up a dql estimator 3 (?) years ago. it worked. > > http://blog.cerowrt.org/post/dql_on_wifi_2/ > > As a side note, in *any* real world working mu-mimo situation at any > scale, on any equipment, does anyone have any stats on how often the > feature is actually used and useful? > > My personal guess, from looking at the standard, was in home > scenarios, usage would be about... 0, and in a controlled environment > in a football stadium, quite a lot. > > In a office or apartment complex, I figured interference and so forth > would make it a negative benefit due to retransmits. > > I felt when that part of the standard rolled around... that mu-mimo > was an idea that should never have escaped the lab. I can be convinced > by data, that we can aim for a higher goal here. But it would be > comforting to have a measured non-lab, real-world, at real world > rates, result for it, on some platform, of it actually being useful. > > > We're working on building a lab with 20 or 30 mixed 'real' devices > using various different /AC NICs (QCA wave2 on OpenWRT, Fedora, realtek USB 8812au on OpenWRT, Fedora, > and some Intel NICs in NUCs on Windows, and maybe more). I'm not actually sure if that realtek > or the NUCs can do MU-MIMO or not, but the QCA NICs will be able to. It should be at least somewhat similar > to a classroom environment or coffee shop. > > > In the last 3 coffee shops I went to, I could hear over 30 APs on > competing SSIDs, running G, N, and AC, > occupying every available channel. > > > I especially like when someone uses channel 3 because, I guess, they > think it is un-used :) > > I'm not sure if this was a fluke or not, but at Starbucks recently I sat outside, > right next to their window, and could not scan their AP at all. Previously, I sat > inside, 3 feet away through the glass, and got great signal. I wonder what that was > all about! Maybe special tinting that blocks RF? Or just dumb luck of some sort. > > Thanks, > Ben > > > -- > Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com> > Candela Technologies Inc http://www.candelatech.com > > -- Dave Täht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> To: Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net> Cc: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@toke.dk>, "Rajkumar Manoharan" <rmanohar@codeaurora.org>, Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>, linux-wireless <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>, ath10k <ath10k@lists.infradead.org>, "Ben Greear" <greearb@candelatech.com>, "Felix Fietkau" <nbd@nbd.name> Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [PATCH v3 3/6] mac80211: Add airtime accounting and scheduling to TXQs Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:04:43 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CAA93jw60e-oV_axeNg6JoJGXhjUxbr==nnRvoBiJS3eQF_ZO3A@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <46F43681-DF84-4E08-9426-328BA7AE1CED@superduper.net> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 4:52 PM Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net> wrote: > > Low-e glass, it’s a thin metallic film used to reflect infra-red to keep heat in or out. Totally blocks/reflects RF. Very cool. I imagine it's hell on cell too? I can see this stuff becoming very popular in places where keeping the good wifi in is important. Could cover floors and ceilings with it to. Cars could be tempest rated... /me goes looking for stock to buy > Simon > > On Nov 19, 2018, at 4:20 PM, Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com> wrote: > > On 11/19/2018 04:13 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 3:56 PM Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com> wrote: > > > On 11/19/2018 03:47 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 3:30 PM Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net> wrote: > > > > > On Nov 19, 2018, at 2:44 PM, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> wrote: > > Dave Taht <dave@taht.net> writes: > > Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> writes: > > Felix Fietkau <nbd@nbd.name> writes: > > On 2018-11-14 18:40, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote: > > This part doesn't really make much sense to me, but maybe I'm > misunderstanding how the code works. > Let's assume we have a driver like ath9k or mt76, which tries to keep a > > …. > > > Well, there's going to be a BQL-like queue limit (but for airtime) on > top, which drivers can opt-in to if the hardware has too much queueing. > > > Very happy to read this - I first talked to Dave Taht about the need for Time Queue Limits more than 5 years ago! > > > Michal faked up a dql estimator 3 (?) years ago. it worked. > > http://blog.cerowrt.org/post/dql_on_wifi_2/ > > As a side note, in *any* real world working mu-mimo situation at any > scale, on any equipment, does anyone have any stats on how often the > feature is actually used and useful? > > My personal guess, from looking at the standard, was in home > scenarios, usage would be about... 0, and in a controlled environment > in a football stadium, quite a lot. > > In a office or apartment complex, I figured interference and so forth > would make it a negative benefit due to retransmits. > > I felt when that part of the standard rolled around... that mu-mimo > was an idea that should never have escaped the lab. I can be convinced > by data, that we can aim for a higher goal here. But it would be > comforting to have a measured non-lab, real-world, at real world > rates, result for it, on some platform, of it actually being useful. > > > We're working on building a lab with 20 or 30 mixed 'real' devices > using various different /AC NICs (QCA wave2 on OpenWRT, Fedora, realtek USB 8812au on OpenWRT, Fedora, > and some Intel NICs in NUCs on Windows, and maybe more). I'm not actually sure if that realtek > or the NUCs can do MU-MIMO or not, but the QCA NICs will be able to. It should be at least somewhat similar > to a classroom environment or coffee shop. > > > In the last 3 coffee shops I went to, I could hear over 30 APs on > competing SSIDs, running G, N, and AC, > occupying every available channel. > > > I especially like when someone uses channel 3 because, I guess, they > think it is un-used :) > > I'm not sure if this was a fluke or not, but at Starbucks recently I sat outside, > right next to their window, and could not scan their AP at all. Previously, I sat > inside, 3 feet away through the glass, and got great signal. I wonder what that was > all about! Maybe special tinting that blocks RF? Or just dumb luck of some sort. > > Thanks, > Ben > > > -- > Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com> > Candela Technologies Inc http://www.candelatech.com > > -- Dave Täht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740 _______________________________________________ ath10k mailing list ath10k@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ath10k
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-11-20 1:04 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2018-11-12 22:51 [PATCH v3 0/6] Move TXQ scheduling and airtime fairness into mac80211 Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` [PATCH v3 1/6] mac80211: Add TXQ scheduling API Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` [PATCH v3 2/6] cfg80211: Add airtime statistics and settings Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` [PATCH v3 3/6] mac80211: Add airtime accounting and scheduling to TXQs Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-14 10:57 ` Felix Fietkau 2018-11-14 10:57 ` Felix Fietkau 2018-11-14 17:40 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-14 17:40 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-15 11:09 ` Felix Fietkau 2018-11-15 11:09 ` Felix Fietkau 2018-11-15 17:24 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-15 17:24 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-19 17:55 ` [Make-wifi-fast] " Dave Taht 2018-11-19 17:55 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-19 22:44 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-19 22:44 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-19 23:30 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-19 23:30 ` Dave Taht [not found] ` <4DD985B6-7DBE-42F8-AC87-D6B40CEAE553@superduper.net> 2018-11-19 23:47 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-19 23:47 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-19 23:56 ` Ben Greear 2018-11-19 23:56 ` Ben Greear 2018-11-20 0:13 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-20 0:13 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-20 0:20 ` Ben Greear 2018-11-20 0:20 ` Ben Greear 2018-11-20 0:37 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-20 0:37 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-20 2:12 ` David Lang 2018-11-20 2:12 ` David Lang [not found] ` <46F43681-DF84-4E08-9426-328BA7AE1CED@superduper.net> 2018-11-20 1:04 ` Dave Taht [this message] 2018-11-20 1:04 ` Dave Taht 2018-11-19 23:02 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-19 23:02 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-12-04 14:55 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-12-04 14:55 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-15 8:18 ` [Make-wifi-fast] " Louie Lu 2018-11-15 8:18 ` Louie Lu 2018-11-15 17:10 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-15 17:10 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-12-18 12:11 ` Johannes Berg 2018-12-18 12:11 ` Johannes Berg 2018-12-18 14:08 ` Dave Taht 2018-12-18 14:08 ` Dave Taht 2018-12-18 19:19 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-12-18 19:19 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2018-11-12 22:51 ` [PATCH v3 4/6] ath9k: Switch to mac80211 TXQ scheduling and airtime APIs Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` [PATCH v3 5/6] ath10k: migrate to mac80211 txq scheduling Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` [PATCH v3 6/6] ath10k: reporting estimated tx airtime for fairness Rajkumar Manoharan 2018-11-12 22:51 ` Rajkumar Manoharan
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