From: Siwei Liu <loseweigh@gmail.com> To: Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> Cc: Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@intel.com>, virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, Jiri Pirko <jiri@resnulli.us>, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@wp.pl>, "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@intel.com>, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, David Ahern <dsahern@gmail.com>, si-wei liu <si-wei.liu@oracle.com>, David Miller <davem@davemloft.net> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/3] netdev: kernel-only IFF_HIDDEN netdevice Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2018 15:30:42 -0700 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CADGSJ23RnioMdi0U0yeOBKuM-9QUZ3S33as693xzs0VWQbuVcA@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20180409221523.GH562@lunn.ch> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:15 PM, Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> wrote: >> No, implementation wise I'd avoid changing the class on the fly. What >> I'm looking to is a means to add a secondary class or class aliasing >> mechanism for netdevs that allows mapping for a kernel device >> namespace (/class/net-kernel) to userspace (/class/net). Imagine >> creating symlinks between these two namespaces as an analogy. All >> userspace visible netdevs today will have both a kernel name and a >> userspace visible name, having one (/class/net) referecing the other >> (/class/net-kernel) in its own namespace. The newly introduced >> IFF_AUTO_MANAGED device will have a kernel name only >> (/class/net-kernel). As a result, the existing applications using >> /class/net don't break, while we're adding the kernel namespace that >> allows IFF_AUTO_MANAGED devices which will not be exposed to userspace >> at all. > > My gut feeling is this whole scheme will not fly. You really should be > talking to GregKH. Will do. Before spreading it out loudly I'd run it within netdev to clarify the need for why not exposing the lower netdevs is critical for cloud service providers in the face of introducing a new feature, and we are not hiding anything but exposing it in a way that don't break existing userspace applications while introducing feature is possible with the limitation of keeping old userspace still. > > Anyway, please remember that IFF_AUTO_MANAGED will need to be dynamic. > A device can start out as a normal device, and will change to being > automatic later, when the user on top of it probes. Sure. In whatever form it's still a netdev, and changing the namespace should be more dynamic than changing the class. Thanks a lot, -Siwei > > Andrew
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Siwei Liu <loseweigh@gmail.com> To: Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> Cc: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>, David Ahern <dsahern@gmail.com>, Jiri Pirko <jiri@resnulli.us>, si-wei liu <si-wei.liu@oracle.com>, "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>, Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber.org>, Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@intel.com>, "Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@intel.com>, Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@wp.pl>, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>, "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@intel.com>, Netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: [virtio-dev] Re: [RFC PATCH 2/3] netdev: kernel-only IFF_HIDDEN netdevice Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2018 15:30:42 -0700 [thread overview] Message-ID: <CADGSJ23RnioMdi0U0yeOBKuM-9QUZ3S33as693xzs0VWQbuVcA@mail.gmail.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20180409221523.GH562@lunn.ch> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 3:15 PM, Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch> wrote: >> No, implementation wise I'd avoid changing the class on the fly. What >> I'm looking to is a means to add a secondary class or class aliasing >> mechanism for netdevs that allows mapping for a kernel device >> namespace (/class/net-kernel) to userspace (/class/net). Imagine >> creating symlinks between these two namespaces as an analogy. All >> userspace visible netdevs today will have both a kernel name and a >> userspace visible name, having one (/class/net) referecing the other >> (/class/net-kernel) in its own namespace. The newly introduced >> IFF_AUTO_MANAGED device will have a kernel name only >> (/class/net-kernel). As a result, the existing applications using >> /class/net don't break, while we're adding the kernel namespace that >> allows IFF_AUTO_MANAGED devices which will not be exposed to userspace >> at all. > > My gut feeling is this whole scheme will not fly. You really should be > talking to GregKH. Will do. Before spreading it out loudly I'd run it within netdev to clarify the need for why not exposing the lower netdevs is critical for cloud service providers in the face of introducing a new feature, and we are not hiding anything but exposing it in a way that don't break existing userspace applications while introducing feature is possible with the limitation of keeping old userspace still. > > Anyway, please remember that IFF_AUTO_MANAGED will need to be dynamic. > A device can start out as a normal device, and will change to being > automatic later, when the user on top of it probes. Sure. In whatever form it's still a netdev, and changing the namespace should be more dynamic than changing the class. Thanks a lot, -Siwei > > Andrew --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-04-09 22:30 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 109+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2018-04-01 9:13 [RFC PATCH 0/3] Userspace compatible driver model for virtio_bypass Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-01 9:13 ` [virtio-dev] " Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-01 9:13 ` [RFC PATCH 1/3] qemu: virtio-bypass should explicitly bind to a passthrough device Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-01 9:13 ` [virtio-dev] " Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-03 12:25 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-03 12:25 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-03 12:25 ` [virtio-dev] " Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-04 8:02 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:02 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:02 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-05 15:31 ` Paolo Bonzini 2018-04-07 2:54 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-07 2:54 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-07 2:54 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-01 9:13 ` [RFC PATCH 2/3] netdev: kernel-only IFF_HIDDEN netdevice Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-01 9:13 ` [virtio-dev] " Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-01 16:11 ` David Ahern 2018-04-03 7:40 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-03 7:40 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-03 7:40 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-03 14:57 ` David Ahern 2018-04-03 15:42 ` Jiri Pirko 2018-04-03 15:42 ` Jiri Pirko 2018-04-03 19:23 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-03 19:23 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-03 19:23 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 1:04 ` David Ahern 2018-04-04 6:19 ` Jiri Pirko 2018-04-04 8:01 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:01 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:01 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 6:19 ` Jiri Pirko 2018-04-04 7:36 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 7:36 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 7:36 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 17:21 ` David Ahern 2018-04-04 17:37 ` David Miller 2018-04-04 18:20 ` Jiri Pirko 2018-04-04 18:20 ` Jiri Pirko 2018-04-07 2:32 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-07 2:32 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-07 3:19 ` Andrew Lunn 2018-04-09 22:07 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-09 22:07 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-09 22:07 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-09 22:15 ` Andrew Lunn 2018-04-09 22:15 ` Andrew Lunn 2018-04-09 22:30 ` Siwei Liu [this message] 2018-04-09 22:30 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-09 23:03 ` Stephen Hemminger 2018-04-09 23:31 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-09 23:31 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-09 23:31 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-09 23:03 ` Stephen Hemminger 2018-04-08 16:32 ` David Miller 2018-04-10 6:48 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-10 6:48 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-18 0:26 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-18 0:26 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-18 0:26 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-18 23:33 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-18 23:33 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-18 23:33 ` [virtio-dev] " Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-19 4:41 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-19 4:41 ` [virtio-dev] " Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-19 5:00 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-19 5:00 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-19 5:07 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-19 5:07 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-19 5:07 ` [virtio-dev] " Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-19 6:10 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-19 6:10 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-19 6:10 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-19 6:43 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-19 6:43 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-19 6:43 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-19 6:31 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-19 6:31 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-19 6:31 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-19 5:00 ` Samudrala, Sridhar 2018-04-19 4:41 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-10 6:48 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-08 16:32 ` David Miller 2018-04-04 17:37 ` David Miller 2018-04-04 18:02 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 18:02 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:28 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:28 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 17:37 ` David Ahern 2018-04-04 17:42 ` David Miller 2018-04-04 17:42 ` David Miller 2018-04-04 17:44 ` Stephen Hemminger 2018-04-04 17:44 ` Stephen Hemminger 2018-04-04 20:08 ` Andrew Lunn 2018-04-04 20:08 ` Andrew Lunn 2018-04-04 8:28 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-03 17:35 ` Stephen Hemminger [not found] ` <CADGSJ23vZdtQzWdc_6M_Hr4MUej--wgvJ785DwRF3VaPWS1rpA@mail.gmail.com> [not found] ` <20180403160834.51594373@xeon-e3> 2018-04-06 21:29 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-06 21:29 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-06 21:29 ` [virtio-dev] " Siwei Liu 2018-04-03 17:35 ` Stephen Hemminger 2018-04-01 9:13 ` [RFC PATCH 3/3] virtio_net: make lower netdevs for virtio_bypass hidden Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-01 9:13 ` [virtio-dev] " Si-Wei Liu 2018-04-03 12:20 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-03 12:20 ` Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-03 12:20 ` [virtio-dev] " Michael S. Tsirkin 2018-04-04 8:03 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:03 ` Siwei Liu 2018-04-04 8:03 ` Siwei Liu
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