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From: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@gmail.com>
To: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>, Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@redhat.com>,
	KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@gmail.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-man@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, mgorman@suse.de,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Woodman <lwoodman@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Describe race of direct read and fork for unaligned buffers
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:14:33 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHGf_=qfuRZzb91ELEcArNaNHsfO4BBMPO8a-QRBzFNaT2ev_w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20120502091837.GC16976@quack.suse.cz>

Hello,

>> I see what you mean.
>>
>> I'm not sure, though. For most apps it's bad practice I think. If you get into
>> realm of sophisticated, performance critical IO/storage managers, it would
>> not surprise me if such concurrent buffer modifications could be allowed.
>> We allow exactly such a thing in our pagecache layer. Although probably
>> those would be using shared mmaps for their buffer cache.
>>
>> I think it is safest to make a default policy of asking for IOs against private
>> cow-able mappings to be quiesced before fork, so there are no surprises
>> or reliance on COW details in the mm. Do you think?
>    Yes, I agree that (and MADV_DONTFORK) is probably the best thing to have
> in documentation. Otherwise it's a bit too hairy...

I neglected this issue for years because Linus asked who need this and
I couldn't
find real world usecase.

Ah, no, not exactly correct. Fujitsu proprietary database had such
usecase. But they
quickly fixed it. Then I couldn't find alternative usecase.

I'm not sure why you say "hairy". Do you mean you have any use case of this?

Thank you.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: Jan Kara <jack-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Jeff Moyer <jmoyer-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	KOSAKI Motohiro
	<kosaki.motohiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Michael Kerrisk
	<mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-mm-Bw31MaZKKs3YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org,
	mgorman-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org,
	Andrea Arcangeli
	<aarcange-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Woodman <lwoodman-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Describe race of direct read and fork for unaligned buffers
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:14:33 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHGf_=qfuRZzb91ELEcArNaNHsfO4BBMPO8a-QRBzFNaT2ev_w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20120502091837.GC16976-+0h/O2h83AeN3ZZ/Hiejyg@public.gmane.org>

Hello,

>> I see what you mean.
>>
>> I'm not sure, though. For most apps it's bad practice I think. If you get into
>> realm of sophisticated, performance critical IO/storage managers, it would
>> not surprise me if such concurrent buffer modifications could be allowed.
>> We allow exactly such a thing in our pagecache layer. Although probably
>> those would be using shared mmaps for their buffer cache.
>>
>> I think it is safest to make a default policy of asking for IOs against private
>> cow-able mappings to be quiesced before fork, so there are no surprises
>> or reliance on COW details in the mm. Do you think?
>    Yes, I agree that (and MADV_DONTFORK) is probably the best thing to have
> in documentation. Otherwise it's a bit too hairy...

I neglected this issue for years because Linus asked who need this and
I couldn't
find real world usecase.

Ah, no, not exactly correct. Fujitsu proprietary database had such
usecase. But they
quickly fixed it. Then I couldn't find alternative usecase.

I'm not sure why you say "hairy". Do you mean you have any use case of this?

Thank you.
--
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@gmail.com>
To: Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>, Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@redhat.com>,
	KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@gmail.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-man@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, mgorman@suse.de,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Woodman <lwoodman@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Describe race of direct read and fork for unaligned buffers
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:14:33 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHGf_=qfuRZzb91ELEcArNaNHsfO4BBMPO8a-QRBzFNaT2ev_w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20120502091837.GC16976@quack.suse.cz>

Hello,

>> I see what you mean.
>>
>> I'm not sure, though. For most apps it's bad practice I think. If you get into
>> realm of sophisticated, performance critical IO/storage managers, it would
>> not surprise me if such concurrent buffer modifications could be allowed.
>> We allow exactly such a thing in our pagecache layer. Although probably
>> those would be using shared mmaps for their buffer cache.
>>
>> I think it is safest to make a default policy of asking for IOs against private
>> cow-able mappings to be quiesced before fork, so there are no surprises
>> or reliance on COW details in the mm. Do you think?
>    Yes, I agree that (and MADV_DONTFORK) is probably the best thing to have
> in documentation. Otherwise it's a bit too hairy...

I neglected this issue for years because Linus asked who need this and
I couldn't
find real world usecase.

Ah, no, not exactly correct. Fujitsu proprietary database had such
usecase. But they
quickly fixed it. Then I couldn't find alternative usecase.

I'm not sure why you say "hairy". Do you mean you have any use case of this?

Thank you.

--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
the body to majordomo@kvack.org.  For more info on Linux MM,
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  reply	other threads:[~2012-05-02 19:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-04-30  9:30 [PATCH] Describe race of direct read and fork for unaligned buffers Jan Kara
2012-04-30  9:30 ` Jan Kara
2012-04-30 13:41 ` Jeff Moyer
2012-04-30 13:41   ` Jeff Moyer
2012-04-30 14:30 ` Mel Gorman
2012-04-30 14:30   ` Mel Gorman
2012-04-30 14:30   ` Mel Gorman
2012-05-01  5:50 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-01  5:50   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-01  6:49 ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-01  6:49   ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-01 14:31 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 14:31   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 14:37   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 14:37     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 14:37     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 15:11     ` Jeff Moyer
2012-05-01 15:11       ` Jeff Moyer
2012-05-01 15:34       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 15:34         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 15:34         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 15:38         ` Jeff Moyer
2012-05-01 15:38           ` Jeff Moyer
2012-05-01 15:50           ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-01 15:50             ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-01 15:50             ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-01 23:51             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-01 23:51               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-02  8:17             ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02  8:17               ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02  8:17               ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02  9:09               ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  9:09                 ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  9:09                 ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  9:18                 ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02  9:18                   ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02  9:18                   ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02 19:14                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro [this message]
2012-05-02 19:14                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-02 19:14                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-02 19:23                     ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02 19:23                       ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02 19:25                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-02 19:25                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-02 19:25                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-05 11:28                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-05 11:28                           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-05 11:28                           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-05 15:29                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-05 15:29                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-08 23:10                             ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-08 23:10                               ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-09  5:35                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-09  5:35                                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-09  7:01                                 ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-09  7:01                                   ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-09  7:18                                   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-09  7:18                                     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-10 15:00                                     ` Jan Kara
2012-05-10 15:00                                       ` Jan Kara
2012-05-10 15:00                                       ` Jan Kara
2012-05-01 16:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 16:15   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-01 17:56   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-01 17:56     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2012-05-02  0:34     ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  0:34       ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  3:04       ` Hugh Dickins
2012-05-02  3:04         ` Hugh Dickins
2012-05-02  3:10         ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  3:10           ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  3:10           ` Nick Piggin
2012-05-02  9:20         ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02  9:20           ` Jan Kara
2012-05-02  9:20           ` Jan Kara

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