platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[David Herrmann]

Hi

The thinkpad_acpi driver constantly reports about unhandled events on
my ThinkPad X1 5gen. The logs look like this:

kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b1
kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...

kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b0
kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...

I have no clue what triggers them. However, the 0x60b1 event seems to
notify about some kind of action, and 0x60b0 seems to notify about its
end (like FAN-START, and FAN-STOP). The 0x60b0 follows 0x60b1 usually
in a timespan between 1s-10s.

The event occurs even when the laptop is not moved/touched, but only
performs random computations. The first time this occurs is usually
during user-space startup, which might just be the time the module is
loaded. So far, I did not see any other event occurring before/after
it, which might give any hints.

What is the recommended way to deal with that? I am having a hard-time
figuring out what triggers it, but at the same time it spams the
system-logs to a degree that after 1h of uptime, the vast majority of
the system log is cluttered with those messages.

I can provide a patch to ignore these events in the driver? Or does
anyone have access to Lenovo developers to ask for help?

Thanks
David

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Andy Shevchenko]

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> The thinkpad_acpi driver constantly reports about unhandled events on
> my ThinkPad X1 5gen. The logs look like this:
>
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b1
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
> happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
>
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b0
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
> happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
>
> I have no clue what triggers them. However, the 0x60b1 event seems to
> notify about some kind of action, and 0x60b0 seems to notify about its
> end (like FAN-START, and FAN-STOP). The 0x60b0 follows 0x60b1 usually
> in a timespan between 1s-10s.
>
> The event occurs even when the laptop is not moved/touched, but only
> performs random computations. The first time this occurs is usually
> during user-space startup, which might just be the time the module is
> loaded. So far, I did not see any other event occurring before/after
> it, which might give any hints.
>
> What is the recommended way to deal with that? I am having a hard-time
> figuring out what triggers it, but at the same time it spams the
> system-logs to a degree that after 1h of uptime, the vast majority of
> the system log is cluttered with those messages.
>
> I can provide a patch to ignore these events in the driver? Or does
> anyone have access to Lenovo developers to ask for help?
>

I just googled this one:
https://sourceforge.net/p/ibm-acpi/mailman/message/30670245/

I dunno if we have any predefined events for screen_rotate_start /
stop -alike stuff.

So, patches are always welcome!

-- 
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Andy Shevchenko]

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:13 PM, Andy Shevchenko
<andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> The thinkpad_acpi driver constantly reports about unhandled events on
>> my ThinkPad X1 5gen. The logs look like this:
>>
>> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
>> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b1
>> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
>> happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
>>
>> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
>> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b0
>> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
>> happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
>>
>> I have no clue what triggers them. However, the 0x60b1 event seems to
>> notify about some kind of action, and 0x60b0 seems to notify about its
>> end (like FAN-START, and FAN-STOP). The 0x60b0 follows 0x60b1 usually
>> in a timespan between 1s-10s.
>>
>> The event occurs even when the laptop is not moved/touched, but only
>> performs random computations. The first time this occurs is usually
>> during user-space startup, which might just be the time the module is
>> loaded. So far, I did not see any other event occurring before/after
>> it, which might give any hints.
>>
>> What is the recommended way to deal with that? I am having a hard-time
>> figuring out what triggers it, but at the same time it spams the
>> system-logs to a degree that after 1h of uptime, the vast majority of
>> the system log is cluttered with those messages.
>>
>> I can provide a patch to ignore these events in the driver? Or does
>> anyone have access to Lenovo developers to ask for help?
>>
>
> I just googled this one:
> https://sourceforge.net/p/ibm-acpi/mailman/message/30670245/
>
> I dunno if we have any predefined events for screen_rotate_start /
> stop -alike stuff.

Another interesting link
https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/3291964/0001-Add-Thinkpad-palm-detection-acpi-co/

Please, test this to be sure what exactly is the source of events.

-- 
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Andy Shevchenko]

+Cc: Mattew, who is an author of the patch I posted link to which earlier.

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> The thinkpad_acpi driver constantly reports about unhandled events on
> my ThinkPad X1 5gen. The logs look like this:
>
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b1
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
> happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
>
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b0
> kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
> happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
>
> I have no clue what triggers them. However, the 0x60b1 event seems to
> notify about some kind of action, and 0x60b0 seems to notify about its
> end (like FAN-START, and FAN-STOP). The 0x60b0 follows 0x60b1 usually
> in a timespan between 1s-10s.
>
> The event occurs even when the laptop is not moved/touched, but only
> performs random computations. The first time this occurs is usually
> during user-space startup, which might just be the time the module is
> loaded. So far, I did not see any other event occurring before/after
> it, which might give any hints.
>
> What is the recommended way to deal with that? I am having a hard-time
> figuring out what triggers it, but at the same time it spams the
> system-logs to a degree that after 1h of uptime, the vast majority of
> the system log is cluttered with those messages.
>
> I can provide a patch to ignore these events in the driver? Or does
> anyone have access to Lenovo developers to ask for help?
>
> Thanks
> David



-- 
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Matthew Thode]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2504 bytes --]

On 18-01-09 22:16:10, Andy Shevchenko wrote:
> +Cc: Mattew, who is an author of the patch I posted link to which earlier.
> 
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > The thinkpad_acpi driver constantly reports about unhandled events on
> > my ThinkPad X1 5gen. The logs look like this:
> >
> > kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
> > kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b1
> > kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
> > happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
> >
> > kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unknown possible thermal alarm or keyboard event received
> > kernel: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY event 0x60b0
> > kernel: thinkpad_acpi: please report the conditions when this event
> > happened to ibm-acpi-devel@...
> >
> > I have no clue what triggers them. However, the 0x60b1 event seems to
> > notify about some kind of action, and 0x60b0 seems to notify about its
> > end (like FAN-START, and FAN-STOP). The 0x60b0 follows 0x60b1 usually
> > in a timespan between 1s-10s.
> >
> > The event occurs even when the laptop is not moved/touched, but only
> > performs random computations. The first time this occurs is usually
> > during user-space startup, which might just be the time the module is
> > loaded. So far, I did not see any other event occurring before/after
> > it, which might give any hints.
> >
> > What is the recommended way to deal with that? I am having a hard-time
> > figuring out what triggers it, but at the same time it spams the
> > system-logs to a degree that after 1h of uptime, the vast majority of
> > the system log is cluttered with those messages.
> >
> > I can provide a patch to ignore these events in the driver? Or does
> > anyone have access to Lenovo developers to ask for help?
> >

I've been able to trigger it 'at will' on the X1C5.  If I hover my hand
just below the arrow keys I'll get the first signal, after I take it
away I get the second one.  There seems to be a delay in when I put (or
take away) my hand to prevent spamming the logs even more.  It could be
to sense lid close, but there's already another sensors for that I
thought.  The only remaining thing I can guess it that it's to detect
your hands to turn on the keyboard backlight or something.

I don't think it's related at all to the fingerprint sensor as I hover
my hand to the right of it.

-- 
Matthew Thode

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Andy Shevchenko]

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:24 PM, Matthew Thode <mthode@mthode.org> wrote:
> On 18-01-09 22:16:10, Andy Shevchenko wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been able to trigger it 'at will' on the X1C5.  If I hover my hand
> just below the arrow keys I'll get the first signal, after I take it
> away I get the second one.  There seems to be a delay in when I put (or
> take away) my hand to prevent spamming the logs even more.  It could be
> to sense lid close, but there's already another sensors for that I
> thought.  The only remaining thing I can guess it that it's to detect
> your hands to turn on the keyboard backlight or something.
>
> I don't think it's related at all to the fingerprint sensor as I hover
> my hand to the right of it.

Just realized that it might be an ambient sensor. Your hand makes
light goes differently to the sensor -> hardware sends an event.

Whatever guys, feel free to submit a patch when you will be sure what
is the source of the event.

It also makes sense to discuss somewhere near to thinkwiki.org I suppose.

-- 
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[David Herrmann]

Hey

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Andy Shevchenko
<andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:24 PM, Matthew Thode <mthode@mthode.org> wrote:
>> On 18-01-09 22:16:10, Andy Shevchenko wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been able to trigger it 'at will' on the X1C5.  If I hover my hand
>> just below the arrow keys I'll get the first signal, after I take it
>> away I get the second one.  There seems to be a delay in when I put (or
>> take away) my hand to prevent spamming the logs even more.  It could be
>> to sense lid close, but there's already another sensors for that I
>> thought.  The only remaining thing I can guess it that it's to detect
>> your hands to turn on the keyboard backlight or something.
>>
>> I don't think it's related at all to the fingerprint sensor as I hover
>> my hand to the right of it.
>
> Just realized that it might be an ambient sensor. Your hand makes
> light goes differently to the sensor -> hardware sends an event.
>
> Whatever guys, feel free to submit a patch when you will be sure what
> is the source of the event.
>
> It also makes sense to discuss somewhere near to thinkwiki.org I suppose.

Indeed. I can reliably trigger it by moving my hand on top of the
arrow-keys. 0x60b0 is signaled when hovered. It has a latency of
roughly 1s. Once I remove my hand, 0x60b1 is signalled, with a latency
of roughly 3s. Overall, the sensor is quite unreliable when I actually
use the laptop. Sometimes to a degree that it does not react to
anything at all. It might really be some ambient light sensor, which
then gets confused by some unexpected lighting.

Whatever it is, I think this is really meant as "palm-detection" so
input drivers can disable trackpads, etc.

I'd be fine with the patch Matthew proposed (makes the sensor a no-op):
    https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/3291964/0001-Add-Thinkpad-palm-detection-acpi-co/

Andy, is there any reason not to merge it? Do you want this key to be
exposed in some way? If the patch is ok, I can test it locally and
resend with tested-by.

Thanks
David

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018, David Herrmann wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Andy Shevchenko
> <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:24 PM, Matthew Thode <mthode@mthode.org> wrote:
> >> On 18-01-09 22:16:10, Andy Shevchenko wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:19 PM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I've been able to trigger it 'at will' on the X1C5.  If I hover my hand
> >> just below the arrow keys I'll get the first signal, after I take it
> >> away I get the second one.  There seems to be a delay in when I put (or
> >> take away) my hand to prevent spamming the logs even more.  It could be
> >> to sense lid close, but there's already another sensors for that I
> >> thought.  The only remaining thing I can guess it that it's to detect
> >> your hands to turn on the keyboard backlight or something.
> >>
> >> I don't think it's related at all to the fingerprint sensor as I hover
> >> my hand to the right of it.
> >
> > Just realized that it might be an ambient sensor. Your hand makes
> > light goes differently to the sensor -> hardware sends an event.
> >
> > Whatever guys, feel free to submit a patch when you will be sure what
> > is the source of the event.
> >
> > It also makes sense to discuss somewhere near to thinkwiki.org I suppose.
> 
> Indeed. I can reliably trigger it by moving my hand on top of the
> arrow-keys. 0x60b0 is signaled when hovered. It has a latency of
> roughly 1s. Once I remove my hand, 0x60b1 is signalled, with a latency
> of roughly 3s. Overall, the sensor is quite unreliable when I actually
> use the laptop. Sometimes to a degree that it does not react to
> anything at all. It might really be some ambient light sensor, which
> then gets confused by some unexpected lighting.

Please someone test this on Win10+Lenovo drivers to check for intended
behavior... otherwise we will get crazyness once the underlying
implementation improves/changes to better fit whatever its intended
behavior.

It could be to "turn keyboard lighting on" helper or something like that
(coupled to other sensor), for all we know.  It is a bit strange for a
palm-detection sensor to be over the arrow keys, and it certainly
doesn't look like it is a cat-on-keyboard detector...

Another good place to ask around for such information are the thinkpad
forums, they are far more windows-centric, but there is a *lot* of
thinkpad experts lurking there...

-- 
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Andy Shevchenko]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:38 AM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Andy Shevchenko
> <andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:24 PM, Matthew Thode <mthode@mthode.org> wrote:

>> Just realized that it might be an ambient sensor. Your hand makes
>> light goes differently to the sensor -> hardware sends an event.
>>
>> Whatever guys, feel free to submit a patch when you will be sure what
>> is the source of the event.
>>
>> It also makes sense to discuss somewhere near to thinkwiki.org I suppose.
>
> Indeed. I can reliably trigger it by moving my hand on top of the
> arrow-keys. 0x60b0 is signaled when hovered. It has a latency of
> roughly 1s. Once I remove my hand, 0x60b1 is signalled, with a latency
> of roughly 3s. Overall, the sensor is quite unreliable when I actually
> use the laptop. Sometimes to a degree that it does not react to
> anything at all. It might really be some ambient light sensor, which
> then gets confused by some unexpected lighting.
>
> Whatever it is, I think this is really meant as "palm-detection" so
> input drivers can disable trackpads, etc.

I would listen to what Henrique said, he has a good point.

> I'd be fine with the patch Matthew proposed (makes the sensor a no-op):
>     https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/3291964/0001-Add-Thinkpad-palm-detection-acpi-co/
>
> Andy, is there any reason not to merge it? Do you want this key to be
> exposed in some way? If the patch is ok, I can test it locally and
> resend with tested-by.

I can't just crawl through internet and merge odd patches. This is one
reason why I added the author to Cc list.

Another one we have an established process, so, please follow it:
1) submit to mailing list (like you did your initial message);
2) get time to be reviewed.

We also use patchwork to keep history of what has been done. This
patch missed our patchwork queue.

Another important point I have no hardware to test myself, so, I need
to be crystal clear on the change. I can't for this particular one.

So, and at the end we have alive maintainer for that code. W/o his ACK
I would not proceed.

Sorry for inconvenience, this is how it's supposed to work.

-- 
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[David Herrmann]

Hi

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:27 PM, Andy Shevchenko
<andy.shevchenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:38 AM, David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'd be fine with the patch Matthew proposed (makes the sensor a no-op):
>>     https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/3291964/0001-Add-Thinkpad-palm-detection-acpi-co/
>>
>> Andy, is there any reason not to merge it? Do you want this key to be
>> exposed in some way? If the patch is ok, I can test it locally and
>> resend with tested-by.
>
> I can't just crawl through internet and merge odd patches. This is one
> reason why I added the author to Cc list.
>
> Another one we have an established process, so, please follow it:
> 1) submit to mailing list (like you did your initial message);
> 2) get time to be reviewed.
>
> We also use patchwork to keep history of what has been done. This
> patch missed our patchwork queue.
>
> Another important point I have no hardware to test myself, so, I need
> to be crystal clear on the change. I can't for this particular one.
>
> So, and at the end we have alive maintainer for that code. W/o his ACK
> I would not proceed.
>
> Sorry for inconvenience, this is how it's supposed to work.

Ugh, sorry, I just wanted to know whether I should just resend the
patch or rework it. Maybe that was not clear from my question.

Will resend. Lets continue discussion there.

Thanks
David

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[David Herrmann]

Hi

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
<hmh@hmh.eng.br> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2018, David Herrmann wrote:
>> Indeed. I can reliably trigger it by moving my hand on top of the
>> arrow-keys. 0x60b0 is signaled when hovered. It has a latency of
>> roughly 1s. Once I remove my hand, 0x60b1 is signalled, with a latency
>> of roughly 3s. Overall, the sensor is quite unreliable when I actually
>> use the laptop. Sometimes to a degree that it does not react to
>> anything at all. It might really be some ambient light sensor, which
>> then gets confused by some unexpected lighting.
>
> Please someone test this on Win10+Lenovo drivers to check for intended
> behavior...

I cannot see Windows reacting to this at all. I tried different
combinations of the ambient-light sensor and the keyboard sensor.
There seems to be no automatic handling regarding keyboard or screen
brightness, nor any palm detection. Neither did I see any user-options
referring to these sensors.

>             otherwise we will get crazyness once the underlying
> implementation improves/changes to better fit whatever its intended
> behavior.

I cannot follow. The HKEY is currently reported via acpi-netlink. My
patch does not change that, it simply silences the kernel-log output,
so it does not spam the kernel log to a degree that it is unusable for
other work.

I see that it would be beneficial knowing exactly what this key
reports. However, I think spamming the kernel log is not the right way
to motivate people to investigate this. I'd be fine with printing a
one-time hint for those keys, or some other option. But the current
state makes kernel development a hassle with all the warnings printed
by the thinkpad-acpi driver.

> It could be to "turn keyboard lighting on" helper or something like that
> (coupled to other sensor), for all we know.  It is a bit strange for a
> palm-detection sensor to be over the arrow keys, and it certainly
> doesn't look like it is a cat-on-keyboard detector...

Palm-detection underneath the arrow keys sounds like the right place
to me. Especially as most people are right-handed, you want to detect
movement of the right hand. The left hand might just be resting on the
keyboard the entire time. Inspecting my own usage, I'd say the lower
right hand side of they keyboard is the perfect place for that. What
makes you sceptical of that?

I checked with the input developers, and there is currently no hookup
of any similar interfaces in libinput / xf86-input-*. So no similar
prior art that might be of help here.

> Another good place to ask around for such information are the thinkpad
> forums, they are far more windows-centric, but there is a *lot* of
> thinkpad experts lurking there...

Which forums are you referring to here? I am not used to debugging
thinkpad acpi drivers, so any hints are welcome.

Thanks
David

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018, David Herrmann wrote:
> > Please someone test this on Win10+Lenovo drivers to check for intended
> > behavior...
> 
> I cannot see Windows reacting to this at all. I tried different
> combinations of the ambient-light sensor and the keyboard sensor.

Hmm, so future functionality.  Neat!

I *heard* someone mentioning somewhere that a laptop was lighting up the
keyboard when the hand was over it, and turning it off when it wasn't,
and I though that might be one possible use...

> There seems to be no automatic handling regarding keyboard or screen
> brightness, nor any palm detection. Neither did I see any user-options
> referring to these sensors.

I see.

> >             otherwise we will get crazyness once the underlying
> > implementation improves/changes to better fit whatever its intended
> > behavior.
> 
> I cannot follow. The HKEY is currently reported via acpi-netlink. My

Ah, not the userspace report over netlink, but if we did anything
in-kernel with the information.

> I see that it would be beneficial knowing exactly what this key
> reports. However, I think spamming the kernel log is not the right way
> to motivate people to investigate this. I'd be fine with printing a
> one-time hint for those keys, or some other option. But the current
> state makes kernel development a hassle with all the warnings printed
> by the thinkpad-acpi driver.

Agreed.

In fact, I will accept a patch that changes that warning to a pr_info,
and rewords it to a far less scary "unknown general purpose or
thermal-related event".  The warning was added a long time ago, there
were only thermal alarms in the 0x6000 event range at that time, I
think.

> > It could be to "turn keyboard lighting on" helper or something like that
> > (coupled to other sensor), for all we know.  It is a bit strange for a
> > palm-detection sensor to be over the arrow keys, and it certainly
> > doesn't look like it is a cat-on-keyboard detector...
> 
> Palm-detection underneath the arrow keys sounds like the right place
> to me. Especially as most people are right-handed, you want to detect
> movement of the right hand. The left hand might just be resting on the
> keyboard the entire time. Inspecting my own usage, I'd say the lower
> right hand side of they keyboard is the perfect place for that. What
> makes you sceptical of that?

Because for some reason I thought this was about disabling the touchpad
automatically.  Running on little sleep, here, due to Spectre.

> I checked with the input developers, and there is currently no hookup
> of any similar interfaces in libinput / xf86-input-*. So no similar
> prior art that might be of help here.
> 
> > Another good place to ask around for such information are the thinkpad
> > forums, they are far more windows-centric, but there is a *lot* of
> > thinkpad experts lurking there...
> 
> Which forums are you referring to here? I am not used to debugging
> thinkpad acpi drivers, so any hints are welcome.

Here:
https://forum.thinkpads.com/

-- 
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: platform/x86: thinkpad_acpi: unhandled HKEY 0x60b0 and 0x60b1

[David Herrmann]

Hi

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
<hmh@hmh.eng.br> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2018, David Herrmann wrote:
>> I see that it would be beneficial knowing exactly what this key
>> reports. However, I think spamming the kernel log is not the right way
>> to motivate people to investigate this. I'd be fine with printing a
>> one-time hint for those keys, or some other option. But the current
>> state makes kernel development a hassle with all the warnings printed
>> by the thinkpad-acpi driver.
>
> Agreed.
>
> In fact, I will accept a patch that changes that warning to a pr_info,
> and rewords it to a far less scary "unknown general purpose or
> thermal-related event".  The warning was added a long time ago, there
> were only thermal alarms in the 0x6000 event range at that time, I
> think.

Right. I will have a look.

>> > It could be to "turn keyboard lighting on" helper or something like that
>> > (coupled to other sensor), for all we know.  It is a bit strange for a
>> > palm-detection sensor to be over the arrow keys, and it certainly
>> > doesn't look like it is a cat-on-keyboard detector...
>>
>> Palm-detection underneath the arrow keys sounds like the right place
>> to me. Especially as most people are right-handed, you want to detect
>> movement of the right hand. The left hand might just be resting on the
>> keyboard the entire time. Inspecting my own usage, I'd say the lower
>> right hand side of they keyboard is the perfect place for that. What
>> makes you sceptical of that?
>
> Because for some reason I thought this was about disabling the touchpad
> automatically.  Running on little sleep, here, due to Spectre.

No worries.

>> I checked with the input developers, and there is currently no hookup
>> of any similar interfaces in libinput / xf86-input-*. So no similar
>> prior art that might be of help here.
>>
>> > Another good place to ask around for such information are the thinkpad
>> > forums, they are far more windows-centric, but there is a *lot* of
>> > thinkpad experts lurking there...
>>
>> Which forums are you referring to here? I am not used to debugging
>> thinkpad acpi drivers, so any hints are welcome.
>
> Here:
> https://forum.thinkpads.com/

Thanks! The search seems limited to 1 request per minute. Meh. I will
see whether I can get some information out of it.

Thanks
David