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From: Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>
To: Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>,
	Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org>,
	"open list:HARDWARE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR CORE"
	<linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-fscrypt@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Paul Crowley <paulcrowley@google.com>,
	Greg Kaiser <gkaiser@google.com>,
	Samuel Neves <samuel.c.p.neves@gmail.com>,
	Tomer Ashur <tomer.ashur@esat.kuleuven.be>,
	Martin Willi <martin@strongswan.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 0/4] Exporting existing crypto API code through zinc
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:32:05 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKv+Gu-SHS2tF665dfqSgmH5EF5vGVtef=3_4WgCE=+8+Jw7Rw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181120060217.t4nccaqpwnxkl4tx@gondor.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 07:02, Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 01:24:51PM +0800, Herbert Xu wrote:
> >
> > In response to Martin's patch-set which I merged last week, I think
> > here is quick way out for the zinc interface.
> >
> > Going through the past zinc discussions it would appear that
> > everybody is quite happy with the zinc interface per se.  The
> > most contentious areas are in fact the algorithm implementations
> > under zinc, as well as the conversion of the crypto API algorithms
> > over to using the zinc interface (e.g., you can no longer access
> > specific implementations).
> >
> > My proposal is to merge the zinc interface as is, but to invert
> > how we place the algorithm implementations.  IOW the implementations
> > should stay where they are now, with in the crypto API.  However,
> > we will provide direct access to them for zinc without going through
> > the crypto API.  IOW we'll just export the functions directly.
> >
> > Here is a proof of concept patch to do it for chacha20-generic.
> > It basically replaces patch 3 in the October zinc patch series.
> > Actually this patch also exports the arm/x86 chacha20 functions
> > too so they are ready for use by zinc.
> >
> > If everyone is happy with this then we can immediately add the
> > zinc interface and expose the existing crypto API algorithms
> > through it.  This would allow wireguard to be merged right away.
> >
> > In parallel, the discussions over replacing the implementations
> > underneath can carry on without stalling the whole project.
> >
> > PS This patch is totally untested :)
>
> Here is an updated version demonstrating how we could access the
> accelerated versions of chacha20.  It also includes a final patch
> to deposit the new zinc version of x86-64 chacha20 into
> arch/x86/crypto where it can be used by both the crypto API as well
> as zinc.
>
> The key differences between this and the last zinc patch series:
>
> 1. The crypto API algorithms remain individually accessible, this
> is crucial as these algorithm names are exported to user-space so
> changing the names to foo-zinc is not going to work.
>

Are you saying user space may use names like "ctr-aes-neon" directly
rather than "ctr(aes)" for any implementation of the mode?

If so, that is highly unfortunate, since it means we'd be breaking
user space by wrapping a crypto library function with its own arch
specific specializations into a generic crypto API wrapper.

Note that I think that using AF_ALG to access software crypto routines
(as opposed to accelerators) is rather pointless to begin with, but if
it permits that today than we're stuck with it.

> 2. The arch-specific algorithm code lives in their own module rather
> than in a monolithic module.
>

This is one of the remaining issues I have with Zinc. However, modulo
the above concerns, I think it does make sense to have a separate
function API for synchronous software routines below the current
crypto API. What I don't want is a separate Zinc kingdom with a
different name, different maintainers and going through a different
tree, and with its own approach to test vectors, arch specific code,
etc etc

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org (Ard Biesheuvel)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [RFC PATCH v2 0/4] Exporting existing crypto API code through zinc
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:32:05 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKv+Gu-SHS2tF665dfqSgmH5EF5vGVtef=3_4WgCE=+8+Jw7Rw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20181120060217.t4nccaqpwnxkl4tx@gondor.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 07:02, Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 01:24:51PM +0800, Herbert Xu wrote:
> >
> > In response to Martin's patch-set which I merged last week, I think
> > here is quick way out for the zinc interface.
> >
> > Going through the past zinc discussions it would appear that
> > everybody is quite happy with the zinc interface per se.  The
> > most contentious areas are in fact the algorithm implementations
> > under zinc, as well as the conversion of the crypto API algorithms
> > over to using the zinc interface (e.g., you can no longer access
> > specific implementations).
> >
> > My proposal is to merge the zinc interface as is, but to invert
> > how we place the algorithm implementations.  IOW the implementations
> > should stay where they are now, with in the crypto API.  However,
> > we will provide direct access to them for zinc without going through
> > the crypto API.  IOW we'll just export the functions directly.
> >
> > Here is a proof of concept patch to do it for chacha20-generic.
> > It basically replaces patch 3 in the October zinc patch series.
> > Actually this patch also exports the arm/x86 chacha20 functions
> > too so they are ready for use by zinc.
> >
> > If everyone is happy with this then we can immediately add the
> > zinc interface and expose the existing crypto API algorithms
> > through it.  This would allow wireguard to be merged right away.
> >
> > In parallel, the discussions over replacing the implementations
> > underneath can carry on without stalling the whole project.
> >
> > PS This patch is totally untested :)
>
> Here is an updated version demonstrating how we could access the
> accelerated versions of chacha20.  It also includes a final patch
> to deposit the new zinc version of x86-64 chacha20 into
> arch/x86/crypto where it can be used by both the crypto API as well
> as zinc.
>
> The key differences between this and the last zinc patch series:
>
> 1. The crypto API algorithms remain individually accessible, this
> is crucial as these algorithm names are exported to user-space so
> changing the names to foo-zinc is not going to work.
>

Are you saying user space may use names like "ctr-aes-neon" directly
rather than "ctr(aes)" for any implementation of the mode?

If so, that is highly unfortunate, since it means we'd be breaking
user space by wrapping a crypto library function with its own arch
specific specializations into a generic crypto API wrapper.

Note that I think that using AF_ALG to access software crypto routines
(as opposed to accelerators) is rather pointless to begin with, but if
it permits that today than we're stuck with it.

> 2. The arch-specific algorithm code lives in their own module rather
> than in a monolithic module.
>

This is one of the remaining issues I have with Zinc. However, modulo
the above concerns, I think it does make sense to have a separate
function API for synchronous software routines below the current
crypto API. What I don't want is a separate Zinc kingdom with a
different name, different maintainers and going through a different
tree, and with its own approach to test vectors, arch specific code,
etc etc

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-11-20 21:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 98+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-05 23:25 [RFC PATCH v3 00/15] crypto: Adiantum support Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 01/15] crypto: chacha20-generic - add HChaCha20 library function Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 02/15] crypto: chacha20-generic - don't unnecessarily use atomic walk Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 03/15] crypto: chacha20-generic - add XChaCha20 support Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 04/15] crypto: chacha20-generic - refactor to allow varying number of rounds Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 05/15] crypto: chacha - add XChaCha12 support Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 06/15] crypto: arm/chacha20 - limit the preemption-disabled section Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 07/15] crypto: arm/chacha20 - add XChaCha20 support Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-06 12:41   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-06 12:41     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-06 12:41     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 08/15] crypto: arm/chacha20 - refactor to allow varying number of rounds Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-06 12:46   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-06 12:46     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-06 12:46     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 09/15] crypto: arm/chacha - add XChaCha12 support Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 10/15] crypto: poly1305 - use structures for key and accumulator Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-06 14:28   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-06 14:28     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-06 14:28     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-12 18:58     ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-12 18:58       ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-12 18:58       ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-16  6:02       ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-16  6:02         ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-16  6:02         ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-17  0:17         ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-17  0:17           ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-17  0:17           ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-17  0:30           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-17  0:30             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-17  0:30             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-18 13:46           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-18 13:46             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-19  5:24             ` [RFC PATCH] zinc chacha20 generic implementation using crypto API code Herbert Xu
2018-11-19  6:13               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-19  6:13                 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-19  6:22                 ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-19  6:22                   ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-19 22:54                 ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-19 22:54                   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-19 23:15                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-19 23:15                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-19 23:23                     ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-19 23:23                       ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-19 23:31                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-19 23:31                         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-20  3:06                   ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  3:06                     ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  3:08                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-20  3:08                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-20  6:02               ` [RFC PATCH v2 0/4] Exporting existing crypto API code through zinc Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  6:02                 ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  6:04                 ` [v2 PATCH 1/4] crypto: chacha20 - Export chacha20 functions without crypto API Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  6:04                   ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  6:04                 ` [v2 PATCH 2/4] zinc: ChaCha20 generic C implementation and selftest Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  6:04                 ` [v2 PATCH 3/4] zinc: Add x86 accelerated ChaCha20 Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  6:04                   ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20  6:04                 ` [v2 PATCH 4/4] zinc: ChaCha20 x86_64 implementation Herbert Xu
2018-11-20 10:32                 ` Ard Biesheuvel [this message]
2018-11-20 10:32                   ` [RFC PATCH v2 0/4] Exporting existing crypto API code through zinc Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-20 10:32                   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2018-11-20 14:18                   ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20 14:18                     ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20 14:18                     ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20 16:24                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-20 16:24                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-20 18:51                       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-20 18:51                         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2018-11-21  7:55                       ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-21  7:55                         ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-20 16:18                 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-20 16:18                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2018-11-21  6:01                   ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-21  6:01                     ` Herbert Xu
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 11/15] crypto: poly1305 - add Poly1305 core API Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 12/15] crypto: nhpoly1305 - add NHPoly1305 support Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 13/15] crypto: arm/nhpoly1305 - add NEON-accelerated NHPoly1305 Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 14/15] crypto: adiantum - add Adiantum support Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25 ` [RFC PATCH v3 15/15] fscrypt: " Eric Biggers
2018-11-05 23:25   ` Eric Biggers
2018-11-08  6:47 ` [RFC PATCH v3 00/15] crypto: " Martin Willi
2018-11-08  6:47   ` Martin Willi

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