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From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
Cc: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>, paulmck <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Russell King, ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	x86 <x86@kernel.org>, linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>,
	linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	stable <stable@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC please help] membarrier: Rewrite sync_core_before_usermode()
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:30:39 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALCETrWaYU26z6RzHCN+VsTvS-uhApjr+jahS85de6WB_V37Tg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1670059472.3671.1609189779376.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com>

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 1:09 PM Mathieu Desnoyers
<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> wrote:
>
> ----- On Dec 27, 2020, at 4:36 PM, Andy Lutomirski luto@kernel.org wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> You seem to have noticed odd cases on arm64 where this guarantee does not
> >> match reality. Where exactly can we find this in the code, and which part
> >> of the architecture manual can you point us to which supports your concern ?
> >>
> >> Based on the notes I have, use of `eret` on aarch64 guarantees a context
> >> synchronizing
> >> instruction when returning to user-space.
> >
> > Based on my reading of the manual, ERET on ARM doesn't synchronize
> > anything at all.  I can't find any evidence that it synchronizes data
> > or instructions, and I've seen reports that the CPU will happily
> > speculate right past it.
>
> Reading [1] there appears to be 3 kind of context synchronization events:
>
> - Taking an exception,
> - Returning from an exception,
> - ISB.

My reading of [1] is that all three of these are "context
synchronization event[s]", but that only ISB flushes the pipeline,
etc.  The little description of context synchronization seems to
suggest that it only implies that certain register changes become
effective.

>
> This other source [2] adds (search for Context synchronization operation):
>
> - Exit from Debug state
> - Executing a DCPS instruction
> - Executing a DRPS instruction
>
> "ERET" falls into the second kind of events, and AFAIU should be context
> synchronizing. That was confirmed to me by Will Deacon when membarrier
> sync-core was implemented for aarch64. If the architecture reference manuals
> are wrong, is there an errata ?
>
> As for the algorithm to use on ARMv8 to update instructions, see [2]
> B2.3.4  Implication of caches for the application programmer
> "Synchronization and coherency issues between data and instruction accesses"

This specifically discusses ISB.

Let's wait for an actual ARM64 expert to chime in, though.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
Cc: Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, paulmck <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>, x86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	"Russell King, ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>, Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>,
	stable <stable@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC please help] membarrier: Rewrite sync_core_before_usermode()
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:30:39 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALCETrWaYU26z6RzHCN+VsTvS-uhApjr+jahS85de6WB_V37Tg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1670059472.3671.1609189779376.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com>

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 1:09 PM Mathieu Desnoyers
<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> wrote:
>
> ----- On Dec 27, 2020, at 4:36 PM, Andy Lutomirski luto@kernel.org wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> You seem to have noticed odd cases on arm64 where this guarantee does not
> >> match reality. Where exactly can we find this in the code, and which part
> >> of the architecture manual can you point us to which supports your concern ?
> >>
> >> Based on the notes I have, use of `eret` on aarch64 guarantees a context
> >> synchronizing
> >> instruction when returning to user-space.
> >
> > Based on my reading of the manual, ERET on ARM doesn't synchronize
> > anything at all.  I can't find any evidence that it synchronizes data
> > or instructions, and I've seen reports that the CPU will happily
> > speculate right past it.
>
> Reading [1] there appears to be 3 kind of context synchronization events:
>
> - Taking an exception,
> - Returning from an exception,
> - ISB.

My reading of [1] is that all three of these are "context
synchronization event[s]", but that only ISB flushes the pipeline,
etc.  The little description of context synchronization seems to
suggest that it only implies that certain register changes become
effective.

>
> This other source [2] adds (search for Context synchronization operation):
>
> - Exit from Debug state
> - Executing a DCPS instruction
> - Executing a DRPS instruction
>
> "ERET" falls into the second kind of events, and AFAIU should be context
> synchronizing. That was confirmed to me by Will Deacon when membarrier
> sync-core was implemented for aarch64. If the architecture reference manuals
> are wrong, is there an errata ?
>
> As for the algorithm to use on ARMv8 to update instructions, see [2]
> B2.3.4  Implication of caches for the application programmer
> "Synchronization and coherency issues between data and instruction accesses"

This specifically discusses ISB.

Let's wait for an actual ARM64 expert to chime in, though.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
Cc: Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, paulmck <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au>, x86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	"Russell King, ARM Linux" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>, Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>,
	stable <stable@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	linuxppc-dev <linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org>,
	linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC please help] membarrier: Rewrite sync_core_before_usermode()
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:30:39 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALCETrWaYU26z6RzHCN+VsTvS-uhApjr+jahS85de6WB_V37Tg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1670059472.3671.1609189779376.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com>

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 1:09 PM Mathieu Desnoyers
<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> wrote:
>
> ----- On Dec 27, 2020, at 4:36 PM, Andy Lutomirski luto@kernel.org wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> You seem to have noticed odd cases on arm64 where this guarantee does not
> >> match reality. Where exactly can we find this in the code, and which part
> >> of the architecture manual can you point us to which supports your concern ?
> >>
> >> Based on the notes I have, use of `eret` on aarch64 guarantees a context
> >> synchronizing
> >> instruction when returning to user-space.
> >
> > Based on my reading of the manual, ERET on ARM doesn't synchronize
> > anything at all.  I can't find any evidence that it synchronizes data
> > or instructions, and I've seen reports that the CPU will happily
> > speculate right past it.
>
> Reading [1] there appears to be 3 kind of context synchronization events:
>
> - Taking an exception,
> - Returning from an exception,
> - ISB.

My reading of [1] is that all three of these are "context
synchronization event[s]", but that only ISB flushes the pipeline,
etc.  The little description of context synchronization seems to
suggest that it only implies that certain register changes become
effective.

>
> This other source [2] adds (search for Context synchronization operation):
>
> - Exit from Debug state
> - Executing a DCPS instruction
> - Executing a DRPS instruction
>
> "ERET" falls into the second kind of events, and AFAIU should be context
> synchronizing. That was confirmed to me by Will Deacon when membarrier
> sync-core was implemented for aarch64. If the architecture reference manuals
> are wrong, is there an errata ?
>
> As for the algorithm to use on ARMv8 to update instructions, see [2]
> B2.3.4  Implication of caches for the application programmer
> "Synchronization and coherency issues between data and instruction accesses"

This specifically discusses ISB.

Let's wait for an actual ARM64 expert to chime in, though.

_______________________________________________
linux-arm-kernel mailing list
linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel

  reply	other threads:[~2020-12-29  0:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-12-27 18:28 [RFC please help] membarrier: Rewrite sync_core_before_usermode() Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-27 18:28 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-27 18:28 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-27 20:18 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-27 20:18   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-27 21:36   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-27 21:36     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-27 21:36     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 10:25     ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 10:25       ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 10:25       ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 17:14       ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 17:14         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 17:14         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 17:23         ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 17:23           ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 17:23           ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 18:10           ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 18:10             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 18:10             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 18:29         ` Jann Horn
2020-12-28 18:29           ` Jann Horn
2020-12-28 18:29           ` Jann Horn
2020-12-28 18:50           ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 18:50             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 18:50             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 19:08           ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 19:08             ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 19:08             ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 19:44             ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 19:44               ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 19:44               ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 20:24               ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 20:24                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 20:24                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-28 20:40                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-28 20:40                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-28 20:32               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-28 20:32                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-28 21:06                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 21:06                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 21:06                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-28 21:26                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-28 21:26                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-29  0:36                   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  0:36                     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  0:36                     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  0:56                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  0:56                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  0:56                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  3:09                       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  3:09                         ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  3:09                         ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29 10:44                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-29 10:44                           ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-29 10:44                           ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-30  2:33                           ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-30  2:33                             ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-30  2:33                             ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-30 10:00                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-30 10:00                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-30 10:00                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-30 10:58                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-30 10:58                                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-30 10:58                                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux admin
2020-12-30 11:57                                 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-30 11:57                                   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-30 11:57                                   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-28 21:09     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-28 21:09       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2020-12-29  0:30       ` Andy Lutomirski [this message]
2020-12-29  0:30         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  0:30         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  0:11 ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  0:11   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  0:11   ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  0:36   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  0:36     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  0:36     ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-12-29  3:31     ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  3:31       ` Nicholas Piggin
2020-12-29  3:31       ` Nicholas Piggin
2021-01-01 18:33     ` David Laight
2021-01-01 18:33       ` David Laight
2021-01-01 18:33       ` David Laight
2021-01-05 13:26     ` Will Deacon
2021-01-05 13:26       ` Will Deacon
2021-01-05 13:26       ` Will Deacon
2021-01-05 16:20       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-01-05 16:20         ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-01-05 16:20         ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-01-05 16:37         ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-01-05 16:37           ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-01-05 16:37           ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-01-05 22:41         ` Will Deacon
2021-01-05 22:41           ` Will Deacon
2021-01-05 22:41           ` Will Deacon

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