Re: Web HOB planning discussion

Re: Web HOB planning discussion

[Jim Kosem]

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Hi,

Here's the link to the wikipage for the design for WebHob that we've been working on here at the London office.

https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Yocto_1.3_Web_Hob

The direct link to the video screencast is here:
https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/images/9/9c/Yocto_webHob.1.9_screencast.0.1.mov

-- 
Jim Kosem
Skype: jkosem
GTalk: jim@halfman.com
Mobile: 07757 559081

Note: I read and reply to email only a couple of times a day. If you need something quicker, please use Skype, GTalk or if its urgent call my mobile.

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Re: Web HOB planning discussion

[Darren Hart]

On 06/11/2012 07:20 AM, Jim Kosem wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Here's the link to the wikipage for the design for WebHob that we've
> been working on here at the London office.
> 
> https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Yocto_1.3_Web_Hob
> 
> The direct link to the video screencast is here:
> https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/images/9/9c/Yocto_webHob.1.9_screencast.0.1.mov
> 

It's looking fantastic!

The group/project concept is very interesting.

One thing I didn't see in the video, and perhaps you just couldn't cover
it, is how do you specify settings in local.conf? LICENSE settings for
example?

As for the image writer, it really should not be limited to USB devices.

--
Darren

> -- 
> Jim Kosem
> Skype: jkosem
> GTalk: jim@halfman.com
> Mobile: 07757 559081
> 
> Note: I read and reply to email only a couple of times a day. If you
> need something quicker, please use Skype, GTalk or if its urgent call my
> mobile.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
> 

-- 
Darren Hart
Intel Open Source Technology Center
Yocto Project - Linux Kernel

Re: Web HOB planning discussion

[Paul Eggleton]

On Wednesday 13 June 2012 09:08:16 Darren Hart wrote:
> The group/project concept is very interesting.
> 
> One thing I didn't see in the video, and perhaps you just couldn't cover
> it, is how do you specify settings in local.conf? LICENSE settings for
> example?

Some of these settings should be available under "Settings" which isn't really 
covered in the video other than the button being at the top right. I'm not 
sure the current design can cover every possible setting you can set via 
local.conf, but it should cover the basics (the settings currently configurable 
in Hob v2 that make sense in the context of a central server - i.e. it may be 
that the admin is the one that sets parallel make / threads dependent on the 
hardware resources they have assigned). We can always add additional settings 
in the future where they make sense.
 
> As for the image writer, it really should not be limited to USB devices.

Indeed, but it's worth noting that the whole "deploy" section is a little 
tricky anyway. In the design it's shown within the web interface but I'm not 
sure how it can work there, given that it requires root privileges on the 
client machine to write an image to the media. It's more likely that this will 
be implemented in the form of an executable that is available for download 
from the web interface, but we won't know for sure until it reaches 
implementation. (I've talked to Jim about this already, what is there in the 
design is a stand-in for the fact that the capability should be there in some 
form, eventually at least.)

Cheers,
Paul

-- 

Paul Eggleton
Intel Open Source Technology Centre

Re: Web HOB planning discussion

[Stewart, David C]

>From: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [mailto:yocto-
>bounces@yoctoproject.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kosem
>Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 7:20 AM
>
>Hi,
>
>Here's the link to the wikipage for the design for WebHob that we've been
>working on here at the London office.
>
>https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Yocto_1.3_Web_Hob
>
>The direct link to the video screencast is here:
>https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/images/9/9c/Yocto_webHob.1.9_screenca
>st.0.1.mov

Friends - it looks very good. A couple of comments...

* This could be a great way for an organization to implement a workflow process using YP, rather than try to invent one themselves. We have gotten the feedback that some larger organizations want something like this, so I'm pleased with that direction.

* With the above in mind, a key meta-usage is installing and configuring the server. For example, I could imagine an organization wanting to easily customize the home page with their own news and design information, etc. 

* I could also see the opportunity for an OSV or service provider to brand the interface with their own goodness and extending it with their own features so this might be another meta-usage.

* And while I'm on a roll... whenever we talk about how the administrator installs this, we need consider how they update from a previous version, particularly if they have customized the home screen or other bits.

* Project creation and member add/remove should perhaps be an administrator role and password protected? 


>--
>Jim Kosem
>Skype: jkosem
>GTalk: jim@halfman.com
>Mobile: 07757 559081
>
>Note: I read and reply to email only a couple of times a day. If you need
>something quicker, please use Skype, GTalk or if its urgent call my mobile.

Re: Web HOB planning discussion

[Osier-mixon, Jeffrey]

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I agree, it is looking really interesting. Some comments below.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Stewart, David C <
david.c.stewart@intel.com> wrote:

> * This could be a great way for an organization to implement a workflow
> process using YP, rather than try to invent one themselves. We have gotten
> the feedback that some larger organizations want something like this, so
> I'm pleased with that direction.
>

Agreed - I have fielded a few questions about this as well


> * With the above in mind, a key meta-usage is installing and configuring
> the server. For example, I could imagine an organization wanting to easily
> customize the home page with their own news and design information, etc.
>
> * I could also see the opportunity for an OSV or service provider to brand
> the interface with their own goodness and extending it with their own
> features so this might be another meta-usage.
>
> * And while I'm on a roll... whenever we talk about how the administrator
> installs this, we need consider how they update from a previous version,
> particularly if they have customized the home screen or other bits.
>

If branding & customization happen in CSS, the whole customization part
should be portable from one version to another (as long as no one breaks
anything structural). If we want to enable customization of functionality,
though - e.g. pre-filter package selection, restrict certain features... -
I could see that being tricky to implement in a portable way.


> * Project creation and member add/remove should perhaps be an
> administrator role and password protected?
>

I vote yes on user management, but why password-protect project creation?

Other thoughts:

My feeling is that both Hob and WebHob will be most useful as tools to get
people started. At some point, anyone who is doing more esoteric work than
the Hob allows will need to learn how to get their hands dirty with
recipes, config files, etc. For that reason, I really like the workflow
focus, as that translates directly to the expected workflow of the whole
build system. I suggest a future step might be guided configuration, guided
recipe (and layer?) creation, and other progressive types of features that
also show the workflow in action the way the current Hob does.

And I totally agree that the usability work you guys have done is making a
huge difference in design. I like it! Want more!
-- 
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org

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Re: Web HOB planning discussion

[Barros Pena, Belen]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback: loads of interesting stuff there. We'll keep it all in mind when working on the next iteration.

If you think of anything else, please post it here.

Cheers

Belen

From: <Osier-mixon>, Jeffrey <jeffrey.osier-mixon@intel.com<mailto:jeffrey.osier-mixon@intel.com>>
Date: Wednesday, 13 June 2012 19:00
To: "Stewart, David C" <david.c.stewart@intel.com<mailto:david.c.stewart@intel.com>>
Cc: Konstantinos Papagiannopoulos <hello@konputer.net<mailto:hello@konputer.net>>, "yocto@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>" <yocto@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>>, Jim Kosem <jim@halfman.com<mailto:jim@halfman.com>>
Subject: Re: [yocto] Web HOB planning discussion

I agree, it is looking really interesting. Some comments below.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Stewart, David C <david.c.stewart@intel.com<mailto:david.c.stewart@intel.com>> wrote:
* This could be a great way for an organization to implement a workflow process using YP, rather than try to invent one themselves. We have gotten the feedback that some larger organizations want something like this, so I'm pleased with that direction.

Agreed - I have fielded a few questions about this as well

* With the above in mind, a key meta-usage is installing and configuring the server. For example, I could imagine an organization wanting to easily customize the home page with their own news and design information, etc.

* I could also see the opportunity for an OSV or service provider to brand the interface with their own goodness and extending it with their own features so this might be another meta-usage.

* And while I'm on a roll... whenever we talk about how the administrator installs this, we need consider how they update from a previous version, particularly if they have customized the home screen or other bits.

If branding & customization happen in CSS, the whole customization part should be portable from one version to another (as long as no one breaks anything structural). If we want to enable customization of functionality, though - e.g. pre-filter package selection, restrict certain features... - I could see that being tricky to implement in a portable way.

* Project creation and member add/remove should perhaps be an administrator role and password protected?

I vote yes on user management, but why password-protect project creation?

Other thoughts:

My feeling is that both Hob and WebHob will be most useful as tools to get people started. At some point, anyone who is doing more esoteric work than the Hob allows will need to learn how to get their hands dirty with recipes, config files, etc. For that reason, I really like the workflow focus, as that translates directly to the expected workflow of the whole build system. I suggest a future step might be guided configuration, guided recipe (and layer?) creation, and other progressive types of features that also show the workflow in action the way the current Hob does.

And I totally agree that the usability work you guys have done is making a huge difference in design. I like it! Want more!
--
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org<http://yoctoproject.org/>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
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答复: Web HOB planning discussion

[Lv, XiaotongX]

About Jim’s video requirement.  and many users to many bitbake servers mapping. maybe there are some problems maybe to solve.

Some my questions:
1. running builds remaining time. difficult to estimate.
  when a user check all the builds status, whether they are done or not.
  the remaining time, it is difficult to estimate. cause in bitbake server. I donot accurately
  to know current build when it starts, how long it will finish for this build.
  so to give an accurate remaining time for user. it is difficult.
2. Add users own layers. how to implement?
  one user wanna to add own layers. so he uploads own layer by browser to put in web server firstly.
  then we need let web server do one thing. to copy the layer to bitbake server.
  so my problem. 
  1).if user upload a unavailable compression layer folder. how to check the folder whether it is
    a real layer or not. If it is hack shells or hack software. How to deal with it?
  2).if user next operation is time out during building, for example, after building package, 
    User donot select package to build image for long time, so system will trigger a time out event to stop and cancel this build . 
    next time, we need to assign a new bitbake for this user.
    in fact. user only wanna to continue his operation based on last time build. Donot need a new bitbake sever to repeat build.
    And now all of user build, we only use one build directory. So it is difficult to remain last different users build status.
  
3.after build completed in browser. it is difficult to test and deploy image directly. how to solve these problems?
we only can download and upload files in browser. We cannot write or read a local machine files and do some operation in browser.
So to test and deploy images by browser. It is difficult. So maybe we need to develop a single client to solve this problem.
But we know. If develop a client. Whether we satisfy different OS. For example, window xp, window 7, linux different version, mac os.


________________________________________
发件人: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org] 代表 Barros Pena, Belen [belen.barros.pena@intel.com]
发送时间: 2012年6月14日 16:37
到: Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Stewart, David C
Cc: Jim Kosem; yocto@yoctoproject.org; Konstantinos Papagiannopoulos
主题: Re: [yocto] Web HOB planning discussion

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback: loads of interesting stuff there. We'll keep it all in mind when working on the next iteration.

If you think of anything else, please post it here.

Cheers

Belen

From: <Osier-mixon>, Jeffrey <jeffrey.osier-mixon@intel.com<mailto:jeffrey.osier-mixon@intel.com>>
Date: Wednesday, 13 June 2012 19:00
To: "Stewart, David C" <david.c.stewart@intel.com<mailto:david.c.stewart@intel.com>>
Cc: Konstantinos Papagiannopoulos <hello@konputer.net<mailto:hello@konputer.net>>, "yocto@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>" <yocto@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>>, Jim Kosem <jim@halfman.com<mailto:jim@halfman.com>>
Subject: Re: [yocto] Web HOB planning discussion

I agree, it is looking really interesting. Some comments below.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Stewart, David C <david.c.stewart@intel.com<mailto:david.c.stewart@intel.com>> wrote:
* This could be a great way for an organization to implement a workflow process using YP, rather than try to invent one themselves. We have gotten the feedback that some larger organizations want something like this, so I'm pleased with that direction.

Agreed - I have fielded a few questions about this as well

* With the above in mind, a key meta-usage is installing and configuring the server. For example, I could imagine an organization wanting to easily customize the home page with their own news and design information, etc.

* I could also see the opportunity for an OSV or service provider to brand the interface with their own goodness and extending it with their own features so this might be another meta-usage.

* And while I'm on a roll... whenever we talk about how the administrator installs this, we need consider how they update from a previous version, particularly if they have customized the home screen or other bits.

If branding & customization happen in CSS, the whole customization part should be portable from one version to another (as long as no one breaks anything structural). If we want to enable customization of functionality, though - e.g. pre-filter package selection, restrict certain features... - I could see that being tricky to implement in a portable way.

* Project creation and member add/remove should perhaps be an administrator role and password protected?

I vote yes on user management, but why password-protect project creation?

Other thoughts:

My feeling is that both Hob and WebHob will be most useful as tools to get people started. At some point, anyone who is doing more esoteric work than the Hob allows will need to learn how to get their hands dirty with recipes, config files, etc. For that reason, I really like the workflow focus, as that translates directly to the expected workflow of the whole build system. I suggest a future step might be guided configuration, guided recipe (and layer?) creation, and other progressive types of features that also show the workflow in action the way the current Hob does.

And I totally agree that the usability work you guys have done is making a huge difference in design. I like it! Want more!
--
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org<http://yoctoproject.org/>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.

_______________________________________________
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Re: 答复: Web HOB planning discussion

[Barros Pena, Belen]

Thanks, Xiaotong.

I don't think features 1 and 3 are critical, but I think we will need to
find a technical solution for point 2.

Cheers

Belen

On 21/06/2012 06:19, "Lv, XiaotongX" <xiaotongx.lv@intel.com> wrote:

>About Jim’s video requirement.  and many users to many bitbake servers
>mapping. maybe there are some problems maybe to solve.
>
>Some my questions:
>1. running builds remaining time. difficult to estimate.
>  when a user check all the builds status, whether they are done or not.
>  the remaining time, it is difficult to estimate. cause in bitbake
>server. I donot accurately
>  to know current build when it starts, how long it will finish for this
>build.
>  so to give an accurate remaining time for user. it is difficult.
>2. Add users own layers. how to implement?
>  one user wanna to add own layers. so he uploads own layer by browser to
>put in web server firstly.
>  then we need let web server do one thing. to copy the layer to bitbake
>server.
>  so my problem. 
>  1).if user upload a unavailable compression layer folder. how to check
>the folder whether it is
>    a real layer or not. If it is hack shells or hack software. How to
>deal with it?
>  2).if user next operation is time out during building, for example,
>after building package,
>    User donot select package to build image for long time, so system
>will trigger a time out event to stop and cancel this build .
>    next time, we need to assign a new bitbake for this user.
>    in fact. user only wanna to continue his operation based on last time
>build. Donot need a new bitbake sever to repeat build.
>    And now all of user build, we only use one build directory. So it is
>difficult to remain last different users build status.
>  
>3.after build completed in browser. it is difficult to test and deploy
>image directly. how to solve these problems?
>we only can download and upload files in browser. We cannot write or read
>a local machine files and do some operation in browser.
>So to test and deploy images by browser. It is difficult. So maybe we
>need to develop a single client to solve this problem.
>But we know. If develop a client. Whether we satisfy different OS. For
>example, window xp, window 7, linux different version, mac os.
>
>
>________________________________________
>发件人: yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org [yocto-bounces@yoctoproject.org] 代表
>Barros Pena, Belen [belen.barros.pena@intel.com]
>发送时间: 2012年6月14日 16:37
>到: Osier-mixon, Jeffrey; Stewart, David C
>Cc: Jim Kosem; yocto@yoctoproject.org; Konstantinos Papagiannopoulos
>主题: Re: [yocto] Web HOB planning discussion
>
>Hi all,
>
>Thanks for the feedback: loads of interesting stuff there. We'll keep it
>all in mind when working on the next iteration.
>
>If you think of anything else, please post it here.
>
>Cheers
>
>Belen
>
>From: <Osier-mixon>, Jeffrey
><jeffrey.osier-mixon@intel.com<mailto:jeffrey.osier-mixon@intel.com>>
>Date: Wednesday, 13 June 2012 19:00
>To: "Stewart, David C"
><david.c.stewart@intel.com<mailto:david.c.stewart@intel.com>>
>Cc: Konstantinos Papagiannopoulos
><hello@konputer.net<mailto:hello@konputer.net>>,
>"yocto@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>"
><yocto@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>>, Jim Kosem
><jim@halfman.com<mailto:jim@halfman.com>>
>Subject: Re: [yocto] Web HOB planning discussion
>
>I agree, it is looking really interesting. Some comments below.
>
>On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Stewart, David C
><david.c.stewart@intel.com<mailto:david.c.stewart@intel.com>> wrote:
>* This could be a great way for an organization to implement a workflow
>process using YP, rather than try to invent one themselves. We have
>gotten the feedback that some larger organizations want something like
>this, so I'm pleased with that direction.
>
>Agreed - I have fielded a few questions about this as well
>
>* With the above in mind, a key meta-usage is installing and configuring
>the server. For example, I could imagine an organization wanting to
>easily customize the home page with their own news and design
>information, etc.
>
>* I could also see the opportunity for an OSV or service provider to
>brand the interface with their own goodness and extending it with their
>own features so this might be another meta-usage.
>
>* And while I'm on a roll... whenever we talk about how the administrator
>installs this, we need consider how they update from a previous version,
>particularly if they have customized the home screen or other bits.
>
>If branding & customization happen in CSS, the whole customization part
>should be portable from one version to another (as long as no one breaks
>anything structural). If we want to enable customization of
>functionality, though - e.g. pre-filter package selection, restrict
>certain features... - I could see that being tricky to implement in a
>portable way.
>
>* Project creation and member add/remove should perhaps be an
>administrator role and password protected?
>
>I vote yes on user management, but why password-protect project creation?
>
>Other thoughts:
>
>My feeling is that both Hob and WebHob will be most useful as tools to
>get people started. At some point, anyone who is doing more esoteric work
>than the Hob allows will need to learn how to get their hands dirty with
>recipes, config files, etc. For that reason, I really like the workflow
>focus, as that translates directly to the expected workflow of the whole
>build system. I suggest a future step might be guided configuration,
>guided recipe (and layer?) creation, and other progressive types of
>features that also show the workflow in action the way the current Hob
>does.
>
>And I totally agree that the usability work you guys have done is making
>a huge difference in design. I like it! Want more!
>--
>Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
>Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel
>http://yoctoproject.org<http://yoctoproject.org/>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
>Registered No. 1134945 (England)
>Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
>VAT No: 860 2173 47
>
>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>
>_______________________________________________
>yocto mailing list
>yocto@yoctoproject.org
>https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
Registered No. 1134945 (England)
Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
VAT No: 860 2173 47

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.