* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
@ 2007-02-01 11:31 Peter.Pearse
2007-02-01 15:37 ` Grant Likely
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Peter.Pearse @ 2007-02-01 11:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Am I on the right lines here?
U-Boot development process
==========================
Gatekeepers have responsibility for some area of U-Boot.
A developer submits a patch via email or requests git pull
[Gatekeepers possibly contend for patch]
Chosen gatekeeper inspects patch for
Coding style
Basic logic
U-Boot ethos (e.g lowest possible size) **1
MAKEALL **2
until satisfied
[If not rejected]
Gatekeeper pushes new branch for the patch to the "area git",
and notifies the user list.
As well as a short summary the description may include
Affected board or area
Suggested tests
If unable to test sufficiently themselves **2, the gatekeeper request tests
from specific maintainers and U-Boot users.
Tests by the original developer are not sufficient.
Once tests are passed, or some agreed time limit expires **3,
the gatekeeper requests that the area branch be merged into the main tree.
[If necessary, patch is reworked to allow merge]
**1:: Ethos - whereas this used to be in Wolfgang's head we may need to
document some of it.
**2:: Gatekeepers may not have access to all necessary tools and/or boards
**3:: I think patches should be accepted if no-one (other than the original
developer)
has tested them within a certain time, but they meet all other criteria.
Regards
Peter Pearse
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-02-01 11:31 [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process Peter.Pearse
@ 2007-02-01 15:37 ` Grant Likely
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Grant Likely @ 2007-02-01 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 2/1/07, Peter.Pearse <peter.pearse@arm.com> wrote:
> Am I on the right lines here?
>
> U-Boot development process
> ==========================
> Gatekeepers have responsibility for some area of U-Boot.
>
> A developer submits a patch via email or requests git pull
I pretty much agree with your flow here, but I would add one thing.
I think *All* patches should go to the mailing list; even gatekeeper
authored ones. It's not the gatekkeepers responsibility to review
every patch, but rather to make sure all patches are reviewed. For
example, if a patch is not contentious and has been Ack'd by someone
he/she trusts, then the gatekeeper can probably merge it without
personally reviewing it.
> [Gatekeepers possibly contend for patch]
> Chosen gatekeeper inspects patch for
> Coding style
> Basic logic
> U-Boot ethos (e.g lowest possible size) **1
> MAKEALL **2
> until satisfied
> [If not rejected]
> Gatekeeper pushes new branch for the patch to the "area git",
> and notifies the user list.
> As well as a short summary the description may include
> Affected board or area
> Suggested tests
> If unable to test sufficiently themselves **2, the gatekeeper request tests
> from specific maintainers and U-Boot users.
> Tests by the original developer are not sufficient.
> Once tests are passed, or some agreed time limit expires **3,
> the gatekeeper requests that the area branch be merged into the main tree.
> [If necessary, patch is reworked to allow merge]
Having a merge window has worked extremely well for the Linux kernel.
Does anyone think the same process is appropriate here?
Cheers,
g.
--
Grant Likely, B.Sc. P.Eng.
Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
grant.likely at secretlab.ca
(403) 399-0195
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 16:11 ` Jerry Van Baren
@ 2007-03-06 16:29 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <45ED92C7.3000301@smiths-aerospace.com> you wrote:
>
> Does your ssh account to denx.de get you shell access? If so, you could
No, it does not. It's restricted to command="git-receive-pack u-boot-???"
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
"The number of Unix installations has grown to 10, with more
expected." - The Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June, 1972
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 16:05 ` Jon Loeliger
2007-03-06 16:11 ` Jerry Van Baren
@ 2007-03-06 16:27 ` Wolfgang Denk
1 sibling, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <1173197134.23776.64.camel@ld0161-tx32> you wrote:
>
> > > I will not be able to use ssh to push to your repositories
> > > from Freescale. Is there any chance you could instead
> > > pull from Freescale's public repository at:
> >
> > You mean cron-job based?
>
> Hmmm. I wasn't thinking cron-based at all, but
> rather in the usual "Please Pull" request mode
> that we see on other lists.
No. You send me a "please pull" when you want me to pull from / merge
with your custodian repository into the "official" master repository.
But what and when you check into your custodian repo, which branches
you use there etc. should be completely under your control only. I
don't want to get involved there.
If you cannot push, all we can do is run automatic (cron based)
updates which sync against another repo of your choice; note that
probably restricts your options.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Time is fluid ... like a river with currents, eddies, backwash.
-- Spock, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 16:05 ` Jon Loeliger
@ 2007-03-06 16:11 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-03-06 16:29 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 16:27 ` Wolfgang Denk
1 sibling, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Jerry Van Baren @ 2007-03-06 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Jon Loeliger wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 09:59, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
>> In message <1173195728.23776.47.camel@ld0161-tx32> you wrote:
>>> I will not be able to use ssh to push to your repositories
>>> from Freescale. Is there any chance you could instead
>>> pull from Freescale's public repository at:
>> You mean cron-job based?
>
> Hmmm. I wasn't thinking cron-based at all, but
> rather in the usual "Please Pull" request mode
> that we see on other lists.
>
>> That would be possible, although I'd prefer
>> if we had a more contolled way to make sure that the content of the
>> repo is in a sane state.
>
> Right. Arbitrary grabbing isn't a good model.
>
> jdl
Hi Jon, WD,
Does your ssh account to denx.de get you shell access? If so, you could
do your own pull when you are at a location that has an enlightened IT
department (i.e. from home ;-).
gvb
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 15:59 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-03-06 16:05 ` Jon Loeliger
2007-03-06 16:11 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-03-06 16:27 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 2 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Jon Loeliger @ 2007-03-06 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 09:59, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> In message <1173195728.23776.47.camel@ld0161-tx32> you wrote:
> >
> > I will not be able to use ssh to push to your repositories
> > from Freescale. Is there any chance you could instead
> > pull from Freescale's public repository at:
>
> You mean cron-job based?
Hmmm. I wasn't thinking cron-based at all, but
rather in the usual "Please Pull" request mode
that we see on other lists.
> That would be possible, although I'd prefer
> if we had a more contolled way to make sure that the content of the
> repo is in a sane state.
Right. Arbitrary grabbing isn't a good model.
jdl
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 15:42 ` Jon Loeliger
@ 2007-03-06 15:59 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 16:05 ` Jon Loeliger
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <1173195728.23776.47.camel@ld0161-tx32> you wrote:
>
> I will not be able to use ssh to push to your repositories
> from Freescale. Is there any chance you could instead
> pull from Freescale's public repository at:
You mean cron-job based? That would be possible, although I'd prefer
if we had a more contolled way to make sure that the content of the
repo is in a sane state.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
There are no data that cannot be plotted on a straight line if the
axis are chosen correctly.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-05 23:09 Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 6:46 ` Aubrey Li
2007-03-06 7:57 ` Rodolfo Giometti
@ 2007-03-06 15:42 ` Jon Loeliger
2007-03-06 15:59 ` Wolfgang Denk
2 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Jon Loeliger @ 2007-03-06 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 17:09, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
>
> Custodians: those of you who already sent me their SSH keys should be
> able to start using their respective repositories immediately.
>
> All the others (i. e. Peter Pearse, Tolunay Orkun, Rafal Jaworowski,
> the MIPS custodian, Andy Fleming, Jon Loelinger, Scott McNutt, and
> Markus Klotzb??cher): can each of you please send me your public SSH
> keys? [If you don't want to send it by e-mail, you can also use
> jabber: wd at jabber.denx.de].
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wolfgang Denk
Wolfgang,
I will not be able to use ssh to push to your repositories
from Freescale. Is there any chance you could instead
pull from Freescale's public repository at:
http://opensource.freescale.com
Thanks,
jdl
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 14:12 ` Peter Pearse
@ 2007-03-06 14:49 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <89A528FE6DB0FA44877BB2F05B84671805650B1A@ZIPPY.Emea.Arm.com> you wrote:
>
> > Hi Peter, can you inform me (or the list), when you are ready
> > to accept patches for review?
>
> You are welcome to submit your patch as the first
> ARM based board patch under the new system as at:-
> http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/CustodianGitTrees
>
> Unfortunately you will receive no prize for this,
> and possibly suffer from my learning process ;-)
We all will have to larn a lot in this process.
I appreciate all sort of feedback and reports of experiences, good
and bad - I'd like to collec tthis information in the U-Boot wiki so
we can all together find a workign style that fits.
...which opens another question: as many of you know, we have a long
list of unprocessed patches in my queue. The most efficient way to
move things forward would be if the new custodians started looking at
these old patches, too.
What is the best way to inform you about what is still open?
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Don't panic.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
[not found] <006d01c75fca$03b87040$0f4565d5@atmel.com>
@ 2007-03-06 14:12 ` Peter Pearse
2007-03-06 14:49 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Peter Pearse @ 2007-03-06 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ulf Samuelsson [mailto:ulf at atmel.com]
> Sent: 06 March 2007 08:33
> To: Peter Pearse
> Subject: Re: [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to get the custodian system finally up and running.
> > All the custodian's (public) repositories have been
> set up on
> > www.denx.de and are ready for use.
> > ...
>
> Hi Peter, can you inform me (or the list), when you are ready
> to accept patches for review?
>
Ulf
You are welcome to submit your patch as the first
ARM based board patch under the new system as at:-
http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/CustodianGitTrees
Unfortunately you will receive no prize for this,
and possibly suffer from my learning process ;-)
Regards
Peter
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
[not found] <20070306103035.GE6726@gundam.enneenne.com>
@ 2007-03-06 12:47 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 12:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hello,
based on earlier input from Peter Pearse (thanks, Peter!) I added
some initial draft for a descritpion of the U-Boot development
process. You can find it at
http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/CustodianGitTrees
Please review and comment. [Note: this is a wiki. Instead of sending
your comments by e-mail, you also edit this document yourself.]
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
The optimum committee has no members.
- Norman Augustine
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 10:47 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-03-06 10:52 ` Aubrey Li
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Aubrey Li @ 2007-03-06 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 3/6/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> In message <27d85ee10703060129u26582066kc55912a9424cafe0@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
> >
> > > For cloning you can use http (or even rsync) as well. But to push your
> > > changes back, you need SSH (+ git).
> > >
> > Sorry, it doesn't work on my side.
> > aubrey at ubuntu-feisty:/tmp$ git-clone http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-blackfin u-boot-blackfin
> > Cannot get remote repository information.
> > Perhaps git-update-server-info needs to be run there?
>
> You must append ".git" to the repo name. Please try again with
>
> git-clone http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-blackfin.git u-boot-blackfin
>
Oh, It works.
Thanks,
-Aubrey
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 9:29 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-03-06 10:47 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 10:52 ` Aubrey Li
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 10:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <27d85ee10703060129u26582066kc55912a9424cafe0@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> > For cloning you can use http (or even rsync) as well. But to push your
> > changes back, you need SSH (+ git).
> >
> Sorry, it doesn't work on my side.
> aubrey at ubuntu-feisty:/tmp$ git-clone http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-blackfin u-boot-blackfin
> Cannot get remote repository information.
> Perhaps git-update-server-info needs to be run there?
You must append ".git" to the repo name. Please try again with
git-clone http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-blackfin.git u-boot-blackfin
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Wait! You have not been prepared!
-- Mr. Atoz, "Tomorrow is Yesterday", stardate 3113.2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-03-06 10:28 ` Rodolfo Giometti
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Rodolfo Giometti @ 2007-03-06 10:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 11:08:18AM +0100, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
>
> Let's see what Robert and Hans say...
Ok.
> Good idea, but let's use a more general name and not restrict it to
> LCD; I'll set up a u-boot-video repo. Please send me your public SSH
> key.
I'll send it privately. :)
Thanks,
Rodolfo
--
GNU/Linux Solutions e-mail: giometti at enneenne.com
Linux Device Driver giometti at gnudd.com
Embedded Systems giometti at linux.it
UNIX programming phone: +39 349 2432127
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 7:57 ` Rodolfo Giometti
@ 2007-03-06 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 10:28 ` Rodolfo Giometti
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <20070306075759.GA6726@gundam.enneenne.com> you wrote:
>
> > I have received zero responses about this so far. Robert, Rodolfo and
> > Hans - please comment.
>
> I wrote to you on this topic several letters. Maybe you didn't recived
> them?! =:-o
I found just one when I searched my logs; sorry for overlooking this.
> However, here my last comment:
That's what I found.
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:12:14 +0100, Rodolfo Giometti wrote:
>
> > No problem for me. I can drop my "nomination" if someone else suppose
> > to better help the MIPS subtree than me. As already said I have just
> > one MIPS based board (AU1100)...
Let's see what Robert and Hans say...
> > On the other side, I'm currently working on LCD and boot LOGO support
> > for the PXA270 (in the past I sent a patch on these topics for AU1100
> > but it losts in deep space... :) so, if you agree, I can switch my
> > nomination on LCD and LOGO support.
Good idea, but let's use a more general name and not restrict it to
LCD; I'll set up a u-boot-video repo. Please send me your public SSH
key.
> Please, let me know if you receive this message.
ACK.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
"Success covers a multitude of blunders." - George Bernard Shaw
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 9:19 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-03-06 9:29 ` Aubrey Li
2007-03-06 10:47 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Aubrey Li @ 2007-03-06 9:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 3/6/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> In message <27d85ee10703052246m590a2cfev76372ae3cd9d4b6@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
> >
> > >To start out, after the acoount has been setup, Dave simply clones the publicly
> > >available tree as usual:
> > >
> > >$ git clone git://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-or32 u-boot-or32
> >
> > I'm behind of a firewall in office, I can't get the repository by git protocol.
> > Is it http available like that?
> > git-clone http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot.git u-boot-git
>
> For cloning you can use http (or even rsync) as well. But to push your
> changes back, you need SSH (+ git).
>
Sorry, it doesn't work on my side.
aubrey at ubuntu-feisty:/tmp$ git-clone
http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-blackfin u-boot-blackfin
Cannot get remote repository information.
Perhaps git-update-server-info needs to be run there?
Best Regards,
-Aubrey
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-06 6:46 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-03-06 9:19 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 9:29 ` Aubrey Li
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-06 9:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <27d85ee10703052246m590a2cfev76372ae3cd9d4b6@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> >To start out, after the acoount has been setup, Dave simply clones the publicly
> >available tree as usual:
> >
> >$ git clone git://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-or32 u-boot-or32
>
> I'm behind of a firewall in office, I can't get the repository by git protocol.
> Is it http available like that?
> git-clone http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot.git u-boot-git
For cloning you can use http (or even rsync) as well. But to push your
changes back, you need SSH (+ git).
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
"Success covers a multitude of blunders." - George Bernard Shaw
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-05 23:09 Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 6:46 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-03-06 7:57 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-03-06 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 15:42 ` Jon Loeliger
2 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Rodolfo Giometti @ 2007-03-06 7:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 12:09:38AM +0100, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> For MIPS, we have 3 volunteers. I wrote before:
>
> > It's really great to receive so much voluntary help, but in the end
> > we can have only one custodian for MIPS. However, for me it is
> > impossible to decide who to chose of Robert, Rodolfo or Hans. Can you
> > please try to sort this out among the three of you, eventually with
> > feedback from the list?
>
> I have received zero responses about this so far. Robert, Rodolfo and
> Hans - please comment.
I wrote to you on this topic several letters. Maybe you didn't recived
them?! =:-o
However, here my last comment:
On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:12:14 +0100, Rodolfo Giometti wrote:
> No problem for me. I can drop my "nomination" if someone else suppose
> to better help the MIPS subtree than me. As already said I have just
> one MIPS based board (AU1100)...
>
> On the other side, I'm currently working on LCD and boot LOGO support
> for the PXA270 (in the past I sent a patch on these topics for AU1100
> but it losts in deep space... :) so, if you agree, I can switch my
> nomination on LCD and LOGO support.
Please, let me know if you receive this message.
Ciao,
Rodolfo
--
GNU/Linux Solutions e-mail: giometti at enneenne.com
Linux Device Driver giometti at gnudd.com
Embedded Systems giometti at linux.it
UNIX programming phone: +39 349 2432127
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-03-05 23:09 Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-03-06 6:46 ` Aubrey Li
2007-03-06 9:19 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 7:57 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-03-06 15:42 ` Jon Loeliger
2 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Aubrey Li @ 2007-03-06 6:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 3/6/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to get the custodian system finally up and running.
>
> All the custodian's (public) repositories have been set up on
> www.denx.de and are ready for use.
>
> You can find an overview about the current situation at
> http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/Custodians
> plus some usage instructions at
> http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/CustodianGitTrees
>
>To start out, after the acoount has been setup, Dave simply clones
the publicly
>available tree as usual:
>
>$ git clone git://www.denx.de/git/u-boot-or32 u-boot-or32
I'm behind of a firewall in office, I can't get the repository by git protocol.
Is it http available like that?
git-clone http://www.denx.de/git/u-boot.git u-boot-git
Thanks,
-Aubrey
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
@ 2007-03-05 23:09 Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 6:46 ` Aubrey Li
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-03-05 23:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hello,
I would like to get the custodian system finally up and running.
All the custodian's (public) repositories have been set up on
www.denx.de and are ready for use.
You can find an overview about the current situation at
http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/Custodians
plus some usage instructions at
http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/CustodianGitTrees
As mentioned before, I would like to establish a strict match between
a repository and a custodian, i. e. each of the git repositories can
be pushed into by exactly one custodian. This is already the case for
all repositories except for the MIPS repo.
For MIPS, we have 3 volunteers. I wrote before:
> It's really great to receive so much voluntary help, but in the end
> we can have only one custodian for MIPS. However, for me it is
> impossible to decide who to chose of Robert, Rodolfo or Hans. Can you
> please try to sort this out among the three of you, eventually with
> feedback from the list?
I have received zero responses about this so far. Robert, Rodolfo and
Hans - please comment.
Custodians: those of you who already sent me their SSH keys should be
able to start using their respective repositories immediately.
All the others (i. e. Peter Pearse, Tolunay Orkun, Rafal Jaworowski,
the MIPS custodian, Andy Fleming, Jon Loelinger, Scott McNutt, and
Markus Klotzb?cher): can each of you please send me your public SSH
keys? [If you don't want to send it by e-mail, you can also use
jabber: wd at jabber.denx.de].
Thanks in advance,
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to
reality. -- Albert Einstein
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
@ 2007-02-12 9:47 Peter Pearse
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Peter Pearse @ 2007-02-12 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Dear All
Anyone volunteering to help test ARM based boards is welcome to add
their details on
http://www.linux-arm.org/LinuxBootLoader/ARMTester
No commitment - when I have a patch for your board I'll notify you,
you can accept/decline the individual patch.....
Regards
Peter
--
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-02-08 0:52 Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-02-08 15:12 ` Rodolfo Giometti
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Rodolfo Giometti @ 2007-02-08 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 01:52:10AM +0100, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
>
> To avoid conflicts, I would like to establish a strict match between
> a repository and a custodian, i. e. each of the git repositories can
> be pushed into by exactly one custodian. As you can see, we already
> have mostly such matches, only for MIPS we have three instead of one
> volunteer.
No problem for me. I can drop my "nomination" if someone else suppose
to better help the MIPS subtree than me. As already said I have just
one MIPS based board (AU1100)...
On the other side, I'm currently working on LCD and boot LOGO support
for the PXA270 (in the past I sent a patch on these topics for AU1100
but it losts in deep space... :) so, if you agree, I can switch my
nomination on LCD and LOGO support.
Regards,
Rodolfo
--
GNU/Linux Solutions e-mail: giometti at enneenne.com
Linux Device Driver giometti at gnudd.com
Embedded Systems giometti at linux.it
UNIX programming phone: +39 349 2432127
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
@ 2007-02-08 0:52 Wolfgang Denk
2007-02-08 15:12 ` Rodolfo Giometti
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-02-08 0:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hello,
it is more than time for a summary of the reactions to our proposal
to split the U-Boot development into several subsystems and to share
the responsibility for these in a group of "custodians". Here it
comes:
1) The reaction was all positive. So we will take the next steps in
that direction.
2) There was a general agreement that it would be beneficial to have
all the custodian's (public) repositories located on the same
server, so we willdo that. If nobody objects, we will host this on
www.denx.de
We intend to name these repositories after their function (rather,
for example, after the name of the custodian), so we don't have to
modify anything in case there should be a change of the
custodians.
3) It was no problem to find custodians for all suggested areas.
Thanks a lot to all of you who volunteered!
You can find an overview about the current situation at
http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/Custodians
This also includes the suggested names for the git repositories.
Please feel free to comment.
To avoid conflicts, I would like to establish a strict match between
a repository and a custodian, i. e. each of the git repositories can
be pushed into by exactly one custodian. As you can see, we already
have mostly such matches, only for MIPS we have three instead of one
volunteer.
It's really great to receive so much voluntary help, but in the end
we can have only one custodian for MIPS. However, for me it is
impossible to decide who to chose of Robert, Rodolfo or Hans. Can you
please try to sort this out among the three of you, eventually with
feedback from the list?
Custodians: can each of you please send me your public SSH keys? We
will then set up the git repositories so we can get the whole thing
rocking ASAP... [If you don't want to send it by e-mail, you can also
use jabber: wd at jabber.denx.de].
Thanks in advance,
Wolfgang Denk
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH, HRB 165235 Munich, CEO: Wolfgang Denk
Office: Kirchenstr. 5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
-- Albert Einstein
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-26 15:52 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-01-26 16:06 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-26 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <27d85ee10701260752t670ea4a7wda632d7605b72699@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> It's good, :).
> I'm glad to place blackfin's git repo at denx server.
> How to apply an account to access the server?
Patience, please. We're not that far yet.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Microsoft Compatibility:
your old Windows 3.11 application crash exactly as the new ones.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 13:38 ` Jerry Van Baren
@ 2007-01-26 15:52 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-26 16:06 ` Wolfgang Denk
1 sibling, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Aubrey Li @ 2007-01-26 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/26/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> In message <27d85ee10701260031s5a67f074x3bee8c4590df97e1@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
> >
> > So does custodian have permission to push his commit into the official
> > repository or the present maintainers are still responsible for
> > pulling all of the subpart trees regularly and integrate into upstream
> > repository?
>
> The custodians will have their own repository, from where I will pull
> it into the official repo. But we intend to host the custodian's
> repositories (or at least an automatically updated copy) all on the
> same server, so it will be possible for everyone to access this code
> even if the merging in the official tree should get delayed.
>
It's good, :).
I'm glad to place blackfin's git repo at denx server.
How to apply an account to access the server?
Best regards,
-Aubrey
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-26 8:49 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-26 11:46 ` Josh Boyer
@ 2007-01-26 14:36 ` Wolfgang Denk
1 sibling, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-26 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <528646bc0701260049g59aa159fua9e06b75c914c25d@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> With this new process, can I request that *ALL* patches still go
> across the list before being pushed to mainline by the custodian? I
> include here patches written by the custodian him/herself.
We didn't always do this so far. In the past, me and others (like
Stefan Roese) checked in a lot of stuff that was not posted on the
list before. I guess I would have problems changing such opld
habits...
But in general, yes, patches will still be required to be sent to the
mailing list.
> I worry that we'll end up with an uncontrolled free for all if
> custodians start pushing patches that haven't been posted here first.
Agreed.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
The easiest way to figure the cost of living is to take your income
and add ten percent.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-26 13:38 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-26 15:52 ` Aubrey Li
1 sibling, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Jerry Van Baren @ 2007-01-26 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> In message <27d85ee10701260031s5a67f074x3bee8c4590df97e1@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>> So does custodian have permission to push his commit into the official
>> repository or the present maintainers are still responsible for
>> pulling all of the subpart trees regularly and integrate into upstream
>> repository?
>
> The custodians will have their own repository, from where I will pull
> it into the official repo. But we intend to host the custodian's
> repositories (or at least an automatically updated copy) all on the
> same server, so it will be possible for everyone to access this code
> even if the merging in the official tree should get delayed.
>
> At lest that's the current theory. We'll probably learn what works
> bet when we are on that way.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wolfgang Denk
My somewhat limited experience with git has been _very_ positive WRT
pulling from multiple git sources to make a "mash-up" git. The best
case scenario I envision is that the feeder git repos maintain patches
as individual branches. This way, not only can denx.de (Wolfgang) pull
patches individually into the master repo, but also I can make my own
"mash-up" git is based on the master repo with my favorite/necessary
patches pulled in as branches and merged into my working branch.
Git has tracking knowledge of changes, full genealogy of the sources.
When a patch is accepted and pulled into the master repo, git recognizes
that my local "mash-up" already has that patch and simply fast-forwards
in my "mash-up" repo and says "my, that was easy." At that point, the
branches in the feeder repo and my "mash-up" repo can be deleted.
Cheap ASCII art
denx.de
| \ \__________
| \ \
| Feeder1 ... FeederN
| | \ \___
| | | \
| | (Patch1) (Patch2)
| |
| /
| /
Mashup
Mashup Branches:
* denx - tracks the master repo (or just use "origin")
* Feeder1 - branch tracking the feeder (one per feeder)
* MyPatch1 - my patch waiting to be pulled by a feeder
* working - my test area, merges (locally pulls in) the
branches denx, Feeder1-Patch1, Feeder1-Patch2,
MyPatch1, etc.
* releaseXX - branch for a release made up of appropriate
patches merged in (Q: should this be a branch
at all, one branch for all releases, or a
branch for each release?)
* ...others
Disclaimer: I have not actually done _all_ of the above, just pieces of
it. I could be full of BS and misunderstandings. Any corrections and
advice from Those With Real Experience[tm]?
Best regards,
gvb
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-26 8:49 ` Grant Likely
@ 2007-01-26 11:46 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-26 14:36 ` Wolfgang Denk
1 sibling, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Josh Boyer @ 2007-01-26 11:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/26/07, Grant Likely <grant.likely@secretlab.ca> wrote:
> On 1/17/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> > We would like to follow the Linux precedent by assembling a list of
> > people willing to invest time and effort into this; the already
> > existing MAINTAINERS file will serve a new function to list the
> > individual custodians with their corresponding area of responsibilty
> > and contact information.
> >
> > Each custodian will have to administrate his or her git tree to
> > streamline transparent development and integration (pulling) into the
> > "official" U-Boot repository. If the need should arise (for example,
> > if a custodian doesn't have convenient means to host it himself),
> > DENX will of course be glad to host such trees.
>
> With this new process, can I request that *ALL* patches still go
> across the list before being pushed to mainline by the custodian? I
> include here patches written by the custodian him/herself.
That seems like a good idea.
josh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-26 8:31 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 13:38 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-26 15:52 ` Aubrey Li
0 siblings, 2 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-26 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <27d85ee10701260031s5a67f074x3bee8c4590df97e1@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> So does custodian have permission to push his commit into the official
> repository or the present maintainers are still responsible for
> pulling all of the subpart trees regularly and integrate into upstream
> repository?
The custodians will have their own repository, from where I will pull
it into the official repo. But we intend to host the custodian's
repositories (or at least an automatically updated copy) all on the
same server, so it will be possible for everyone to access this code
even if the merging in the official tree should get delayed.
At lest that's the current theory. We'll probably learn what works
bet when we are on that way.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
I've got to get something inside me. Some coffee or something. And
then the world will somehow be better.
- Terry Pratchett, _Men at Arms_
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-26 4:22 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-26 9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Dear Aubrey,
in message <27d85ee10701252022n2540839at6767798f8baabdb@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> I'd be honored to take responsibility for Blackfin architecture.
Thanks a lot!
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Es ist offensichtlich, dass das menschliche Gehirn wie ein Computer
funktioniert. Da es keine dummen Computer gibt, gibt es also auch
keine dummen Menschen. Nur ein paar Leute, die unter DOS laufen.
-- <unbekannt>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2007-01-26 8:31 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-01-26 8:49 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-26 11:46 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-26 14:36 ` Wolfgang Denk
9 siblings, 2 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Grant Likely @ 2007-01-26 8:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/17/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> We would like to follow the Linux precedent by assembling a list of
> people willing to invest time and effort into this; the already
> existing MAINTAINERS file will serve a new function to list the
> individual custodians with their corresponding area of responsibilty
> and contact information.
>
> Each custodian will have to administrate his or her git tree to
> streamline transparent development and integration (pulling) into the
> "official" U-Boot repository. If the need should arise (for example,
> if a custodian doesn't have convenient means to host it himself),
> DENX will of course be glad to host such trees.
With this new process, can I request that *ALL* patches still go
across the list before being pushed to mainline by the custodian? I
include here patches written by the custodian him/herself.
I worry that we'll end up with an uncontrolled free for all if
custodians start pushing patches that haven't been posted here first.
Cheers,
g.
--
Grant Likely, B.Sc. P.Eng.
Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
grant.likely at secretlab.ca
(403) 399-0195
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2007-01-26 4:22 ` Aubrey Li
@ 2007-01-26 8:31 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 8:49 ` Grant Likely
9 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Aubrey Li @ 2007-01-26 8:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/18/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> many of you know all too well that we have problems with the
> development process of U-Boot. The biggest problem is that it takes
> much too long until new contributed code finds it's way into the
> public source code repository.
>
> Switching from CVS to git helped a lot on the technical side. It was
> especially important as it also opened the door for organizational
> changes, which are urgently needed.
>
> We've been discussion these issues for some time, and here is our
> joint proposal. "We", that is mostly Detlev Zundel, Stefan Roese, and
> me (Wolfgang Denk). Of course we also had input form many other
> sources.
>
>
> As this mail will propose quite a fundamental change for the U-Boot
> project, please allow us to introduce it with a few short reflections
> on the current state of affairs.
>
> Being a regular reader of this list you will be well aware that even
> with all the problems in the development process and some ugly areas
> in the U-Boot code (like the #ifdef mazes) there is one important
> feature: that's the quality of the U-Boot code base - being
> highlighted quite well by the literal absence of temporary breakages
> in the development code base. This alone allows for the well known
> "use the latest code from the repository" answer when someone enters
> the grounds of this project for the first time. It is well worth to
> reflect on this quality for a little while.
>
> Having done that we may well ask where this quality comes from? We
> think that anybody reading this list only for a limited time will be
> able to come up with the answer, namely the continuous maintenance
> effort of Wolfgang and his modus operandi of personally reviewing
> nearly each and every contribution in this multi-architecture project
> supporting hundreds of boards. It should be obvious how important
> such a level of code review is to keep U-Boot from falling into
> disconnected pieces - just think of the effort to keep aspects of
> U-Boot similar across all supported architectures.
>
> But of course even Wolfgang only has 24 hours per day, and the
> positive effect of this maintenance mode has shrunk continuously in
> comparison to the downside of the embarassingly long backlog of
> patches posted on this mailing list waiting to be processed,
> rendering new lines of development very difficult to say the least.
>
> So the time is more than ripe to change this while explicitely trying
> to keep the quality of the project on the high grounds that we
> brazenly claim for it :)
>
> Gladly there are other projects in the F/OSS community that are worth
> taking a peek at to snatch a hint or two on how we can tackle this
> task.
>
> Considering all this we propose a change in maintaining the U-Boot
> code base to a model similar to what is currently being done with the
> Linux kernel, namely we would like to establish a community of
> "custodian" maintainers, responsible for certain sub-systems,
> aspects, architectures, or board families of the U-Boot source tree.
>
> We would like to follow the Linux precedent by assembling a list of
> people willing to invest time and effort into this; the already
> existing MAINTAINERS file will serve a new function to list the
> individual custodians with their corresponding area of responsibilty
> and contact information.
>
> Each custodian will have to administrate his or her git tree to
> streamline transparent development and integration (pulling) into the
> "official" U-Boot repository. If the need should arise (for example,
> if a custodian doesn't have convenient means to host it himself),
> DENX will of course be glad to host such trees.
So does custodian have permission to push his commit into the official
repository or the present maintainers are still responsible for
pulling all of the subpart trees regularly and integrate into upstream
repository?
-Aubrey
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2007-01-21 20:24 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
@ 2007-01-26 4:22 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 8:31 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-26 8:49 ` Grant Likely
9 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Aubrey Li @ 2007-01-26 4:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/18/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> many of you know all too well that we have problems with the
> development process of U-Boot. The biggest problem is that it takes
> much too long until new contributed code finds it's way into the
> public source code repository.
>
> Switching from CVS to git helped a lot on the technical side. It was
> especially important as it also opened the door for organizational
> changes, which are urgently needed.
>
> We've been discussion these issues for some time, and here is our
> joint proposal. "We", that is mostly Detlev Zundel, Stefan Roese, and
> me (Wolfgang Denk). Of course we also had input form many other
> sources.
>
>
> As this mail will propose quite a fundamental change for the U-Boot
> project, please allow us to introduce it with a few short reflections
> on the current state of affairs.
>
> Being a regular reader of this list you will be well aware that even
> with all the problems in the development process and some ugly areas
> in the U-Boot code (like the #ifdef mazes) there is one important
> feature: that's the quality of the U-Boot code base - being
> highlighted quite well by the literal absence of temporary breakages
> in the development code base. This alone allows for the well known
> "use the latest code from the repository" answer when someone enters
> the grounds of this project for the first time. It is well worth to
> reflect on this quality for a little while.
>
> Having done that we may well ask where this quality comes from? We
> think that anybody reading this list only for a limited time will be
> able to come up with the answer, namely the continuous maintenance
> effort of Wolfgang and his modus operandi of personally reviewing
> nearly each and every contribution in this multi-architecture project
> supporting hundreds of boards. It should be obvious how important
> such a level of code review is to keep U-Boot from falling into
> disconnected pieces - just think of the effort to keep aspects of
> U-Boot similar across all supported architectures.
>
> But of course even Wolfgang only has 24 hours per day, and the
> positive effect of this maintenance mode has shrunk continuously in
> comparison to the downside of the embarassingly long backlog of
> patches posted on this mailing list waiting to be processed,
> rendering new lines of development very difficult to say the least.
>
> So the time is more than ripe to change this while explicitely trying
> to keep the quality of the project on the high grounds that we
> brazenly claim for it :)
>
> Gladly there are other projects in the F/OSS community that are worth
> taking a peek at to snatch a hint or two on how we can tackle this
> task.
>
> Considering all this we propose a change in maintaining the U-Boot
> code base to a model similar to what is currently being done with the
> Linux kernel, namely we would like to establish a community of
> "custodian" maintainers, responsible for certain sub-systems,
> aspects, architectures, or board families of the U-Boot source tree.
>
> We would like to follow the Linux precedent by assembling a list of
> people willing to invest time and effort into this; the already
> existing MAINTAINERS file will serve a new function to list the
> individual custodians with their corresponding area of responsibilty
> and contact information.
>
> Each custodian will have to administrate his or her git tree to
> streamline transparent development and integration (pulling) into the
> "official" U-Boot repository. If the need should arise (for example,
> if a custodian doesn't have convenient means to host it himself),
> DENX will of course be glad to host such trees.
>
> The stated goal of this change of course is to spread the burden of
> maintaining U-Boot to more shoulders so we can hopefully dramatically
> cut down on the current lag between a patch being proposed on the
> mailing list and being processed - be that accepting, rejecting or
> openly discussing it with the community.
>
> As you must have realized by now, this cannot be done without the
> community participating, so what do you think of this idea? Any
> comments or suggestions?
>
>
> Of course we should be honest right upfront and state that as a
> custodian you would be fully responsible for "your" part of the
> U-Boot source tree and it is unfortunately necessary, that you are
> able to commit to a certain amount of time and willingness to discuss
> topics on the mailing list for this maintenance.
>
> Do we have an immediate line of volunteers raising in the first row?
>
> Skimming through the archives we came up with a list of people which
> the U-Boot project already is indebted to and probably being good
> candidates for custodians. Of course this list cannot and does not
> want to be a "credits" list of all the valuable people having
> contributed, so please don't attribute anything else to it as being a
> starting point for this new maintenance mode. Also there are multiple
> suggestions where ultimately of course we would like the community to
> decide.
>
> So with all these precautions in place, here we go:
>
> ARM architecture Richard Woodruff, Peter Pearse
> AVR32 architecture Haavard Skinnemoen
> Blackfin architecture Aubrey Li
I'd be honored to take responsibility for Blackfin architecture.
Best regards,
-Aubrey
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-22 9:23 ` Sam Song
@ 2007-01-22 22:04 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-22 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <201842.62473.qm@web15906.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> you wrote:
>
> > As long as nobody volunteers these are simply still
> > on my list - they are low traffic these days anyway.
>
> So it does for 74xx_7xx as well?
If nobody else volunteers for it...
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore. It's too crowded.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-21 20:39 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-21 20:49 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
@ 2007-01-22 9:23 ` Sam Song
2007-01-22 22:04 ` Wolfgang Denk
1 sibling, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Sam Song @ 2007-01-22 9:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> > separately. But what about 82xx (8220, 824x, 8260
> > directories)? Or are they counted under 4xx?
>
> They were simply forgotten. And no, 82xx not the
> same as 4xx - the former is Freesale, the latter
> is AMCC processors, which are pretty
> different.
>
> As long as nobody volunteers these are simply still
> on my list - they are low traffic these days anyway.
So it does for 74xx_7xx as well?
Thanks,
Sam
___________________________________________________________
??????-3.5G???20M??
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-21 20:39 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-21 20:49 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
2007-01-22 9:23 ` Sam Song
1 sibling, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Guennadi Liakhovetski @ 2007-01-21 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> The problem is that it's not at all clear how to divide everything
> into subsystems such that there is no overlapping and everything is
> still covered. So we try and start with the obvious.
That's exactly why I asked "what you mean by an architecture":-)
> > of those directories:-) But you splitted (almost) every PPC directory
> > separately. But what about 82xx (8220, 824x, 8260 directories)? Or are
> > they counted under 4xx?
>
> They were simply forgotten. And no, 82xx not the same as 4xx - the
> former is Freesale, the latter is AMCC processors, which are pretty
> different.
>
> As long as nobody volunteers these are simply still on my list - they
> are low traffic these days anyway.
Good.
Thanks
Guennadi
---
Guennadi Liakhovetski
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-21 20:24 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
@ 2007-01-21 20:39 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-21 20:49 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
2007-01-22 9:23 ` Sam Song
0 siblings, 2 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-21 20:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Dear Guennadi,
in message <Pine.LNX.4.60.0701212118370.4555@poirot.grange> you wrote:
>
> Wolfgang, thanks for maintaining this whole zoo alone up to now and for
> doing this, I too hope this change will be to the better.
So do I.
> One question, what is a u-boot architecture? If it is equivalent to a
It's a processor architecture.
> directory under cpu/ tree, then does it mean that directories not listed
> here are still maintained by you? Ok, ARM is a collection of about a half
Well, yes, unless we have a volunteer I will continue to take care of
all the rest.
The problem is that it's not at all clear how to divide everything
into subsystems such that there is no overlapping and everything is
still covered. So we try and start with the obvious.
> of those directories:-) But you splitted (almost) every PPC directory
> separately. But what about 82xx (8220, 824x, 8260 directories)? Or are
> they counted under 4xx?
They were simply forgotten. And no, 82xx not the same as 4xx - the
former is Freesale, the latter is AMCC processors, which are pretty
different.
As long as nobody volunteers these are simply still on my list - they
are low traffic these days anyway.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Your own mileage may vary.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2007-01-20 21:33 ` Michal Simek
@ 2007-01-21 20:24 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
2007-01-21 20:39 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 4:22 ` Aubrey Li
` (2 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Guennadi Liakhovetski @ 2007-01-21 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> ARM architecture Richard Woodruff, Peter Pearse
> AVR32 architecture Haavard Skinnemoen
> Blackfin architecture Aubrey Li
> Intel IXP architecture Stefan Roese
> ColdFire architecture Stefan Roese
> Microblaze architecture Michal Simek
> MIPS architecture Rodolfo Giometti, Andrew Dyer
> MPC83xx architecture Kim Phillips
> MPC85xx architecture Jon Loelinger
> MPC86xx architecture Jon Loelinger
> MPC8xx architecture Wolfgang Denk
> NIOS(2) Scott McNutt
> PPC4xx architecture Stefan Roese
>
> CFI FLASH driver Tolunay Orkun
> NAND FLASH subsystem Ladislav Michl, Stefan Roese
> USB drivers Markus Klotzb?cher
Wolfgang, thanks for maintaining this whole zoo alone up to now and for
doing this, I too hope this change will be to the better.
One question, what is a u-boot architecture? If it is equivalent to a
directory under cpu/ tree, then does it mean that directories not listed
here are still maintained by you? Ok, ARM is a collection of about a half
of those directories:-) But you splitted (almost) every PPC directory
separately. But what about 82xx (8220, 824x, 8260 directories)? Or are
they counted under 4xx?
Thanks
Guennadi
---
Guennadi Liakhovetski
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2007-01-19 16:03 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
@ 2007-01-20 21:33 ` Michal Simek
2007-01-21 20:24 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
` (3 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Michal Simek @ 2007-01-20 21:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hi,
> Microblaze architecture Michal Simek
Thanks, I am honored. I'll do my best in keeping the quality of the
Microblaze
port as good as the rest of the tree.
Best regards,
Michal Simek
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 16:03 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
@ 2007-01-19 16:21 ` Jerry Van Baren
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Jerry Van Baren @ 2007-01-19 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Haavard Skinnemoen wrote:
> On 1/17/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
>
>> Do we have an immediate line of volunteers raising in the first row?
>>
>> AVR32 architecture Haavard Skinnemoen
>
> Thanks, I'll do my best in keeping the quality of the AVR32 port as
> good as the rest of the tree. I welcome this change in the development
> process, since I believe the new model will scale very well, as the
> Linux Kernel project has shown.
>
> I think I will keep publishing our stuff on www.atmel.no, since I'm
> working behind a proxy and that's the only server I can push to
> directly. But if all the other arch trees end up on denx.de, I can
> probably set up a cronjob somewhere to sync the two trees, or just do
> the push in two stages.
>
> Best regards,
> Haavard
...or Wolfgang can mirror the remote repositories by simply having a
cron job do a git pull periodically. That is probably the easiest and
best solution. It is trivial to pull, harder to push.
It sounds like denx.de has both the disk and bandwidth resources to
support the feeder repositories (Wolfgang's message on that was a little
confusing). I continue to advocate having all the git repositories
(either mirror or primary) on one site for easy reference and availability.
Thanks,
gvb
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 12:03 ` Josh Boyer
@ 2007-01-19 16:18 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Haavard Skinnemoen @ 2007-01-19 16:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/19/07, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/19/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> >
> > Ummm... is there a size limit on other mailing lists - say on lkml or
> > linuxppc-dev?
>
> lkml (actually I think any list on vger.kernel.org) has a size limit of 100K.
But compressed patches are not allowed (or at least frowned upon) on
lkml. Documentation/SubmittingPatches actually states that the limit
is 40K uncompressed:
"Large changes are not appropriate for mailing lists, and some
maintainers. If your patch, uncompressed, exceeds 40 kB in size,
it is preferred that you store your patch on an Internet-accessible
server, and provide instead a URL (link) pointing to your patch."
However, I think the actual hard limit is 100k as you say. If we're
going to raise the size limit, I vote for requiring patches to be
inline or, for large patches, at a web server.
Haavard
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2007-01-19 10:23 ` Tolunay Orkun
@ 2007-01-19 16:03 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
2007-01-19 16:21 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-20 21:33 ` Michal Simek
` (4 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Haavard Skinnemoen @ 2007-01-19 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/17/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> Do we have an immediate line of volunteers raising in the first row?
>
> AVR32 architecture Haavard Skinnemoen
Thanks, I'll do my best in keeping the quality of the AVR32 port as
good as the rest of the tree. I welcome this change in the development
process, since I believe the new model will scale very well, as the
Linux Kernel project has shown.
I think I will keep publishing our stuff on www.atmel.no, since I'm
working behind a proxy and that's the only server I can push to
directly. But if all the other arch trees end up on denx.de, I can
probably set up a cronjob somewhere to sync the two trees, or just do
the push in two stages.
Best regards,
Haavard
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 10:19 ` Stefan Roese
@ 2007-01-19 15:05 ` Timur Tabi
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Timur Tabi @ 2007-01-19 15:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Stefan Roese wrote:
> It would have been a lot easier _if_ I could have reviewed the patch in my MUA
> context. At least this is my working experience. It is always a hassle for me
> to get the quoted code ("> ") back to the list when the original mail is not
> inlined.
I agree with this 100%.
>> Also, there is always the possibility to split a patch.
>>
>> Ummm... is there a size limit on other mailing lists - say on lkml or
>> linuxppc-dev?
>
> I would be very interested how this is handled in other lists too.
u-boot-users is the only mailing list I've encountered that has an (in
my opinion) unreasonably low limit. That's why I suggested increasing
the limit to 100KB.
One person in Freescale once made a patch that was over 400KB, and we
asked him to rewrite it because he included multiple types of changes
into one patch. Even with the changes, the 40KB limit was a real
problem, but 100KB would have made things a lot easier.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 14:35 ` Grant Likely
@ 2007-01-19 14:58 ` Timur Tabi
1 sibling, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Timur Tabi @ 2007-01-19 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> But be honest: do you really read patches of 40 kB and more using
> your MUA?
Yes, I do.
> IF you do, then it's probably a powerful tool (emacs?) that
> can be configured to automatically display compressed attachments,
> too?
Maybe there is, but I doubt there will be such a tool for everyone. I
use Mozilla to read email, and I know of no plugin that can display a
compressed text file on my Mac.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-19 14:35 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-19 14:58 ` Timur Tabi
1 sibling, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Grant Likely @ 2007-01-19 14:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/19/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> In message <528646bc0701182337s7467482tba38b3aba66e7de4@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
> >
> > Throw my vote in there too. I tend not to read non-inline patches.
>
> Seems I'm standing in the corner here.
>
> But be honest: do you really read patches of 40 kB and more using
> your MUA? IF you do, then it's probably a powerful tool (emacs?) that
> can be configured to automatically display compressed attachments,
> too?
I was only commenting on non-inline patches, not the message size limit.
--
Grant Likely, B.Sc. P.Eng.
Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
grant.likely at secretlab.ca
(403) 399-0195
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 10:05 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 10:19 ` Stefan Roese
@ 2007-01-19 12:03 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-19 16:18 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Josh Boyer @ 2007-01-19 12:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/19/07, Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
>
> Ummm... is there a size limit on other mailing lists - say on lkml or
> linuxppc-dev?
lkml (actually I think any list on vger.kernel.org) has a size limit of 100K.
josh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2007-01-18 14:46 ` Jerry Van Baren
@ 2007-01-19 10:23 ` Tolunay Orkun
2007-01-19 16:03 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
` (5 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Tolunay Orkun @ 2007-01-19 10:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> Do we have an immediate line of volunteers raising in the first row?
>
> Skimming through the archives we came up with a list of people which
> the U-Boot project already is indebted to and probably being good
> candidates for custodians. Of course this list cannot and does not
> want to be a "credits" list of all the valuable people having
> contributed, so please don't attribute anything else to it as being a
> starting point for this new maintenance mode. Also there are multiple
> suggestions where ultimately of course we would like the community to
> decide.
>
> So with all these precautions in place, here we go:
>
> ARM architecture Richard Woodruff, Peter Pearse
> AVR32 architecture Haavard Skinnemoen
> Blackfin architecture Aubrey Li
> Intel IXP architecture Stefan Roese
> ColdFire architecture Stefan Roese
> Microblaze architecture Michal Simek
> MIPS architecture Rodolfo Giometti, Andrew Dyer
> MPC83xx architecture Kim Phillips
> MPC85xx architecture Jon Loelinger
> MPC86xx architecture Jon Loelinger
> MPC8xx architecture Wolfgang Denk
> NIOS(2) Scott McNutt
> PPC4xx architecture Stefan Roese
>
> CFI FLASH driver Tolunay Orkun
>
I am honored. I do not have hosting capability right now so this part of
the tree will need to be hosted on your site for the time being.
I guess you will detail the working protocol push/pull, conflict
resolution, documentation etc. in more detail in the near future.
> NAND FLASH subsystem Ladislav Michl, Stefan Roese
> USB drivers Markus Klotzb?cher
>
> So thanks for bearing with us through this longwinded mail that
> hopefully starts to pave the way to a new level of quality and extent
> of the U-Boot project that is only possibly through its very active
> community - you!
>
Thanks for being such a good (and sometimes mis-understood) gatekeeper.
Your leadership made U-Boot an open source standard.
Best regards,
Tolunay
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 10:05 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-19 10:19 ` Stefan Roese
2007-01-19 15:05 ` Timur Tabi
2007-01-19 12:03 ` Josh Boyer
1 sibling, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Roese @ 2007-01-19 10:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hi Wolfgang,
On Friday 19 January 2007 11:05, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> > I'm with the Freescale guys here. I don't like compressed patches. This
>
> I agree 100% with you here. But we should not try to use the
> exceptions as standard for setting up the message limits. The number
> of cases, where a good and valid patch exceeds the 40 kB limit is
> *very* small. And if somebody submits new code, you will probably not
> only view it in your mailer, you will apply the patch, run MAKEALL to
> see if it comples cleanly, etc. - which means that you will most
> probably use your preferred text editor for reviewing the code
> instead of reading it in your MUA.
>
> In the past, you helped a lot to review patches for coding style
> violations. I guess you did not do this in your MUA context, but
> using a text editor instead?
It would have been a lot easier _if_ I could have reviewed the patch in my MUA
context. At least this is my working experience. It is always a hassle for me
to get the quoted code ("> ") back to the list when the original mail is not
inlined.
You're right of course, this inline review is "only" helpful for coding style
violations and apparently wrong or buggy code. But for this it makes the
review much easier andI can do the review "on the fly", by just reading the
mail and simply responding.
> Also, there is always the possibility to split a patch.
>
> Ummm... is there a size limit on other mailing lists - say on lkml or
> linuxppc-dev?
I would be very interested how this is handled in other lists too.
> > requires some extra steps to review (at least for me) and normally I am
> > too lazy to do this right away when reading the mails. Even if these
> > boards support patches are not that frequent, there should be no
> > "obstacle" to send them inline.
>
> Well, you have never seen the messages that have been blocked by the
> mailing list's size limit. I *did* see (and usually reject) them.
> Believe me, this filter function has always been very useful.
Yes, you're right here. :-)
Best regards,
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 7:37 ` Grant Likely
@ 2007-01-19 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 14:35 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-19 14:58 ` Timur Tabi
0 siblings, 2 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-19 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <528646bc0701182337s7467482tba38b3aba66e7de4@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> Throw my vote in there too. I tend not to read non-inline patches.
Seems I'm standing in the corner here.
But be honest: do you really read patches of 40 kB and more using
your MUA? IF you do, then it's probably a powerful tool (emacs?) that
can be configured to automatically display compressed attachments,
too?
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Nothing ever becomes real until it is experienced. - John Keats
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 7:17 ` Stefan Roese
2007-01-19 7:37 ` Grant Likely
@ 2007-01-19 10:05 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 10:19 ` Stefan Roese
2007-01-19 12:03 ` Josh Boyer
1 sibling, 2 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-19 10:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Dear Stefan,
in message <200701190818.08895.sr@denx.de> you wrote:
>
> > And, let's face it, adding new boards is the exception. Count how many
> > patches have been submitted so far, and how many boards we support.
> > It's a completely insignificant fraction. I don't think it would be a
> > good idea to fix the limits to suite such exceptions. These can be
> > compressed.
>
> I'm with the Freescale guys here. I don't like compressed patches. This
I agree 100% with you here. But we should not try to use the
exceptions as standard for setting up the message limits. The number
of cases, where a good and valid patch exceeds the 40 kB limit is
*very* small. And if somebody submits new code, you will probably not
only view it in your mailer, you will apply the patch, run MAKEALL to
see if it comples cleanly, etc. - which means that you will most
probably use your preferred text editor for reviewing the code
instead of reading it in your MUA.
In the past, you helped a lot to review patches for coding style
violations. I guess you did not do this in your MUA context, but
using a text editor instead?
Also, there is always the possibility to split a patch.
Ummm... is there a size limit on other mailing lists - say on lkml or
linuxppc-dev?
> requires some extra steps to review (at least for me) and normally I am too
> lazy to do this right away when reading the mails. Even if these boards
> support patches are not that frequent, there should be no "obstacle" to send
> them inline.
Well, you have never seen the messages that have been blocked by the
mailing list's size limit. I *did* see (and usually reject) them.
Believe me, this filter function has always been very useful.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
All this doesn't alter anything, you know. The world is still full of
stupid people. They don't use their brains. They don't seem to want
to think straight. - Terry Pratchett, _Soul Music_
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-19 7:17 ` Stefan Roese
@ 2007-01-19 7:37 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-19 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 10:05 ` Wolfgang Denk
1 sibling, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Grant Likely @ 2007-01-19 7:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/19/07, Stefan Roese <sr@denx.de> wrote:
> On Thursday 18 January 2007 22:40, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> > And, let's face it, adding new boards is the exception. Count how many
> > patches have been submitted so far, and how many boards we support.
> > It's a completely insignificant fraction. I don't think it would be a
> > good idea to fix the limits to suite such exceptions. These can be
> > compressed.
>
> I'm with the Freescale guys here. I don't like compressed patches. This
> requires some extra steps to review (at least for me) and normally I am too
> lazy to do this right away when reading the mails. Even if these boards
> support patches are not that frequent, there should be no "obstacle" to send
> them inline.
Throw my vote in there too. I tend not to read non-inline patches.
g.
--
Grant Likely, B.Sc. P.Eng.
Secret Lab Technologies Ltd.
grant.likely at secretlab.ca
(403) 399-0195
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 21:40 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-19 7:17 ` Stefan Roese
2007-01-19 7:37 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-19 10:05 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 2 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Roese @ 2007-01-19 7:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hi Wolfgang,
On Thursday 18 January 2007 22:40, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> > The sum total of all these files is usually more than 40KB. I think what
> > you're
>
> Just run a check like "du -sh board/*" - most board directories take
> 20...50 kB, plus - say - 8...15 kB for the board config file. This
> fits easily in the 40 kB limit if compressed.
>
> And, let's face it, adding new boards is the exception. Count how many
> patches have been submitted so far, and how many boards we support.
> It's a completely insignificant fraction. I don't think it would be a
> good idea to fix the limits to suite such exceptions. These can be
> compressed.
I'm with the Freescale guys here. I don't like compressed patches. This
requires some extra steps to review (at least for me) and normally I am too
lazy to do this right away when reading the mails. Even if these boards
support patches are not that frequent, there should be no "obstacle" to send
them inline.
Best regards,
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 21:20 ` Timur Tabi
@ 2007-01-18 21:40 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 7:17 ` Stefan Roese
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-18 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <45AFE49B.8080909@freescale.com> you wrote:
>
> However, I don't know why you would say that adding a new board should be under
> 40KB. Adding a new board typically requires two files: a header file in
> include/configs/, and a .c file in board/xxx/. The .c file is actually
> accompanied by a config file, a Makefile, an lds file, and maybe some other .c
> files.
Right.
> The sum total of all these files is usually more than 40KB. I think what you're
Just run a check like "du -sh board/*" - most board directories take
20...50 kB, plus - say - 8...15 kB for the board config file. This
fits easily in the 40 kB limit if compressed.
And, let's face it, adding new boards is the exception. Count how many
patches have been submitted so far, and how many boards we support.
It's a completely insignificant fraction. I don't think it would be a
good idea to fix the limits to suite such exceptions. These can be
compressed.
And if a normal patch, uncompressed, exceeds the 40 kB limit, then it
should be probably be split up because it's too big for review
anyway.
> suggesting is that the patch be divided into two patches: one that contains the
> header file, and the other that contains the rest, but that doesn't make sense.
> All of these files belong together as a single commit, because U-Boot can't be
> compiled without all of them together.
Agreed.
> I think the 40KB limit should be increased to 100KB. That's enough to support
> all files for an entire board.
I still disagree. Believe me, the 40 kB size has never been a real
problem for regular patch submissions so far. The cases where it hit
where usually when the poster did not follow the rules, and I want to
keep such a built-in filter function.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
The optimum committee has no members.
- Norman Augustine
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 21:10 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-18 21:20 ` Timur Tabi
2007-01-18 21:40 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Timur Tabi @ 2007-01-18 21:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> Nevertheless, I see actually no reason to change the size limit. I
> haven't seen any many board/ directories that exceed 40..50 kB in
> size, and if you compress the patch than the size limit should not
> affect you.
Well, compressing makes it difficult to read inside an email. I think patches
shouldn't be compressed.
However, I don't know why you would say that adding a new board should be under
40KB. Adding a new board typically requires two files: a header file in
include/configs/, and a .c file in board/xxx/. The .c file is actually
accompanied by a config file, a Makefile, an lds file, and maybe some other .c
files.
The sum total of all these files is usually more than 40KB. I think what you're
suggesting is that the patch be divided into two patches: one that contains the
header file, and the other that contains the rest, but that doesn't make sense.
All of these files belong together as a single commit, because U-Boot can't be
compiled without all of them together.
I think the 40KB limit should be increased to 100KB. That's enough to support
all files for an entire board.
--
Timur Tabi
Linux Kernel Developer @ Freescale
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 18:50 ` Rodolfo Giometti
@ 2007-01-18 21:12 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-18 21:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
In message <20070118185057.GC12754@enneenne.com> you wrote:
>
> I can offer part of my disk space with absolutely no problem!
Thanks, but we're really short on space or bandwidth. We can handle
this easily if the custodians want it that way.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Sometimes a feeling is all we humans have to go on.
-- Kirk, "A Taste of Armageddon", stardate 3193.9
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 17:40 ` Kim Phillips
@ 2007-01-18 21:10 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 21:20 ` Timur Tabi
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-18 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Dear Kim,
in message <20070118114051.5c1c64a5.kim.phillips@freescale.com> you wrote:
>
> 1. what can we do about the 40KB limit on u-boot-users? A patch for
> new board support usually requires more than that, and even when
> given a URL, it's not as easy for people to review the patches
> properly.
We may see changes to the mailing list soon. The whole way how SF is
running there "services" and how they (not) respond to support
requests is more and more annoying to me.
Nevertheless, I see actually no reason to change the size limit. I
haven't seen any many board/ directories that exceed 40..50 kB in
size, and if you compress the patch than the size limit should not
affect you.
It *does* bite you if you ignore the patch submission rules, though,
i. e. the requirement to break patches up into independent, orthogonal
pieces, etc. But that's actually a good thing.
So if you should hit the size limit, the first thing you should do is
asking yourself what you did wrong ;-)
> 2. what is the utility of the "U-Boot spam^H^H^H^Hpatch tracking
> system"? and the "DENX Support System" for that matter? Is it me or
> are they just cluttering people's inboxes?
We (DENX) use OTRS (see http://otrs.org/) for ticket tracking (i. e.
to handle support calls), and we are also experimenting with using it
as a patch database system. I have to admit that we have not found
yet a configuration that looks satisfying to us, and thus I refrain
from making the current state available to others.
I apologize if you feel annoyed by the mails sent by our system, but
we need some tests with the real "public" setup, too. Maybe you can
setup a filter to automatically drop all messages containing "[DNX#'
in the subject line?
> 3. does a subsystem maintainer get leverage into changes made in the
> higher level components of Das U-Boot? E.g., I'm still a firm
> believer that the device tree source should live in the bootloader ;)
Of course the custodians will play a special role when it comes to
moving code upstream. But that does NOT mean that we intend to stop
listening to "normal" users, too. And even as a custodian you will
run into situations where several people will have different point of
views. Actually I expect that you would see such situations more
frequently, as then you have to negotiate both up- and downstream.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
"Nature is very un-American. Nature never hurries."
- William George Jordan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 14:46 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-18 14:51 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-18 16:23 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-18 18:50 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-01-18 21:12 ` Wolfgang Denk
2 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Rodolfo Giometti @ 2007-01-18 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Thu, Jan 18, 2007 at 09:46:12AM -0500, Jerry Van Baren wrote:
> It I don't know if the request is reasonable in terms of disk space and
> burdening denx.de with administrative work, but it would be nice if the
> primary maintainers had their official feeder repositories on the
> denx.de site. It is _very_ useful to have the feeder git repositories
> in one place for easy reference, and that way the repositories would
> tend to be more stable and available.
I can offer part of my disk space with absolutely no problem!
Currently my main problem is the download bandwidth (from my server to the
internet) but I'm planning to double it ASAP.
Ciao,
Rodolfo
--
GNU/Linux Solutions e-mail: giometti at enneenne.com
Linux Device Driver giometti at gnudd.com
Embedded Systems giometti at linux.it
UNIX programming phone: +39 349 2432127
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 16:23 ` Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-18 17:40 ` Kim Phillips
2007-01-18 21:10 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Kim Phillips @ 2007-01-18 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:23:01 +0100
Wolfgang Denk <wd@denx.de> wrote:
> Dear Jerry,
>
> in message <45AF8834.9050904@smiths-aerospace.com> you wrote:
> >
> > It I don't know if the request is reasonable in terms of disk space and
> > burdening denx.de with administrative work, but it would be nice if the
> > primary maintainers had their official feeder repositories on the
>
> There is no problem with that from our side, but I tend to leave the
> decision up to the respective custodians. They will have wo work with
> the repos, and they should be able to do it in the way that seems
> most efficient to them.
>
thanks Wolfgang.
I'm also honoured to help, and I'll try, but I still have a couple of questions:
1. what can we do about the 40KB limit on u-boot-users? A patch for new board support usually requires more than that, and even when given a URL, it's not as easy for people to review the patches properly.
2. what is the utility of the "U-Boot spam^H^H^H^Hpatch tracking system"? and the "DENX Support System" for that matter? Is it me or are they just cluttering people's inboxes?
3. does a subsystem maintainer get leverage into changes made in the higher level components of Das U-Boot? E.g., I'm still a firm believer that the device tree source should live in the bootloader ;)
Kim
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 14:51 ` Josh Boyer
@ 2007-01-18 16:25 ` Wolfgang Denk
0 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-18 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Dear Josh,
in message <625fc13d0701180651n613aacb3lf263715d02bb7dcb@mail.gmail.com> you wrote:
>
> Git can clone on a local machine and use the --reference option to
> point to the official tree. That means that the maintainer's trees
> would not need the full set of all the objects in the tree as the main
> tree will be used as a reference for those. This greatly reduces the
> storage overhead for those trees.
Right. OTOH, fro all repos hosted on the same server the object
database would consist of hardlinks anyway, which is very cheap in
terms of storage overhead.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Work 8 hours, sleep 8 hours; but not the same 8 hours.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 14:46 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-18 14:51 ` Josh Boyer
@ 2007-01-18 16:23 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 17:40 ` Kim Phillips
2007-01-18 18:50 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-18 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Dear Jerry,
in message <45AF8834.9050904@smiths-aerospace.com> you wrote:
>
> It I don't know if the request is reasonable in terms of disk space and
> burdening denx.de with administrative work, but it would be nice if the
> primary maintainers had their official feeder repositories on the
There is no problem with that from our side, but I tend to leave the
decision up to the respective custodians. They will have wo work with
the repos, and they should be able to do it in the way that seems
most efficient to them.
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk
--
Software Engineering: Embedded and Realtime Systems, Embedded Linux
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: wd at denx.de
Use the Force, Luke.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-18 14:46 ` Jerry Van Baren
@ 2007-01-18 14:51 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-18 16:25 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 16:23 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 18:50 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2 siblings, 1 reply; 65+ messages in thread
From: Josh Boyer @ 2007-01-18 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On 1/18/07, Jerry Van Baren <gerald.vanbaren@smiths-aerospace.com> wrote:
> Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> [snip]
>
> > We would like to follow the Linux precedent by assembling a list of
> > people willing to invest time and effort into this; the already
> > existing MAINTAINERS file will serve a new function to list the
> > individual custodians with their corresponding area of responsibilty
> > and contact information.
> >
> > Each custodian will have to administrate his or her git tree to
> > streamline transparent development and integration (pulling) into the
> > "official" U-Boot repository. If the need should arise (for example,
> > if a custodian doesn't have convenient means to host it himself),
> > DENX will of course be glad to host such trees.
>
> It I don't know if the request is reasonable in terms of disk space and
> burdening denx.de with administrative work, but it would be nice if the
> primary maintainers had their official feeder repositories on the
> denx.de site. It is _very_ useful to have the feeder git repositories
> in one place for easy reference, and that way the repositories would
> tend to be more stable and available.
Git can clone on a local machine and use the --reference option to
point to the official tree. That means that the maintainer's trees
would not need the full set of all the objects in the tree as the main
tree will be used as a reference for those. This greatly reduces the
storage overhead for those trees.
Just an FYI.
josh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 0:36 ` Scott McNutt
2007-01-18 11:18 ` Rodolfo Giometti
@ 2007-01-18 14:46 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-18 14:51 ` Josh Boyer
` (2 more replies)
2007-01-19 10:23 ` Tolunay Orkun
` (6 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 3 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Jerry Van Baren @ 2007-01-18 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> Hello,
[snip]
> We would like to follow the Linux precedent by assembling a list of
> people willing to invest time and effort into this; the already
> existing MAINTAINERS file will serve a new function to list the
> individual custodians with their corresponding area of responsibilty
> and contact information.
>
> Each custodian will have to administrate his or her git tree to
> streamline transparent development and integration (pulling) into the
> "official" U-Boot repository. If the need should arise (for example,
> if a custodian doesn't have convenient means to host it himself),
> DENX will of course be glad to host such trees.
It I don't know if the request is reasonable in terms of disk space and
burdening denx.de with administrative work, but it would be nice if the
primary maintainers had their official feeder repositories on the
denx.de site. It is _very_ useful to have the feeder git repositories
in one place for easy reference, and that way the repositories would
tend to be more stable and available.
[snip]
> Best regards,
>
> Wolfgang Denk, Stefan Roese, Detlev Zundel
As always, thank you very much for your efforts in the past and your
thoughtful work to always improve both u-boot and the development
methodology!
Best regards,
gvb
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 0:36 ` Scott McNutt
@ 2007-01-18 11:18 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-01-18 14:46 ` Jerry Van Baren
` (7 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Rodolfo Giometti @ 2007-01-18 11:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 10:24:47PM +0100, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
> So with all these precautions in place, here we go:
>
> ARM architecture Richard Woodruff, Peter Pearse
> AVR32 architecture Haavard Skinnemoen
> Blackfin architecture Aubrey Li
> Intel IXP architecture Stefan Roese
> ColdFire architecture Stefan Roese
> Microblaze architecture Michal Simek
> MIPS architecture Rodolfo Giometti, Andrew Dyer
Currently I have just one MIPS based board (the AU1100 one) so I don't
know if I can be really useful to this subpart. However I'd be honored
to take responsibility for the MIPS architecture! :)
> MPC83xx architecture Kim Phillips
> MPC85xx architecture Jon Loelinger
> MPC86xx architecture Jon Loelinger
> MPC8xx architecture Wolfgang Denk
> NIOS(2) Scott McNutt
> PPC4xx architecture Stefan Roese
>
> CFI FLASH driver Tolunay Orkun
> NAND FLASH subsystem Ladislav Michl, Stefan Roese
> USB drivers Markus Klotzb?cher
About USB drivers, I did on this topic several activities and some
drivers (the AU1x00 OHCI fixup and ISP116x support) and in a few days
I should start developing PXA270 support, so I think I can help much
more on this subpart.
Thanks and regards,
Rodolfo
--
GNU/Linux Solutions e-mail: giometti at enneenne.com
Linux Device Driver giometti at gnudd.com
Embedded Systems giometti at linux.it
UNIX programming phone: +39 349 2432127
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
@ 2007-01-18 0:36 ` Scott McNutt
2007-01-18 11:18 ` Rodolfo Giometti
` (8 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Scott McNutt @ 2007-01-18 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hi Wolfgang,
> The stated goal of this change of course is to spread the burden
...
> cut down on the current lag between a patch being proposed on the
> mailing list and being processed - be that accepting, rejecting
I have bothered you far too often in this matter WRT Nios II ;-)
So ...
> Do we have an immediate line of volunteers raising in the first row?
... I would be just another LID if I didn't offer my time to support
Nios II. I'd be honored to take responsibility for Nios II.
Best Regards,
--Scott
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
* [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process
@ 2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 0:36 ` Scott McNutt
` (9 more replies)
0 siblings, 10 replies; 65+ messages in thread
From: Wolfgang Denk @ 2007-01-17 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: u-boot
Hello,
many of you know all too well that we have problems with the
development process of U-Boot. The biggest problem is that it takes
much too long until new contributed code finds it's way into the
public source code repository.
Switching from CVS to git helped a lot on the technical side. It was
especially important as it also opened the door for organizational
changes, which are urgently needed.
We've been discussion these issues for some time, and here is our
joint proposal. "We", that is mostly Detlev Zundel, Stefan Roese, and
me (Wolfgang Denk). Of course we also had input form many other
sources.
As this mail will propose quite a fundamental change for the U-Boot
project, please allow us to introduce it with a few short reflections
on the current state of affairs.
Being a regular reader of this list you will be well aware that even
with all the problems in the development process and some ugly areas
in the U-Boot code (like the #ifdef mazes) there is one important
feature: that's the quality of the U-Boot code base - being
highlighted quite well by the literal absence of temporary breakages
in the development code base. This alone allows for the well known
"use the latest code from the repository" answer when someone enters
the grounds of this project for the first time. It is well worth to
reflect on this quality for a little while.
Having done that we may well ask where this quality comes from? We
think that anybody reading this list only for a limited time will be
able to come up with the answer, namely the continuous maintenance
effort of Wolfgang and his modus operandi of personally reviewing
nearly each and every contribution in this multi-architecture project
supporting hundreds of boards. It should be obvious how important
such a level of code review is to keep U-Boot from falling into
disconnected pieces - just think of the effort to keep aspects of
U-Boot similar across all supported architectures.
But of course even Wolfgang only has 24 hours per day, and the
positive effect of this maintenance mode has shrunk continuously in
comparison to the downside of the embarassingly long backlog of
patches posted on this mailing list waiting to be processed,
rendering new lines of development very difficult to say the least.
So the time is more than ripe to change this while explicitely trying
to keep the quality of the project on the high grounds that we
brazenly claim for it :)
Gladly there are other projects in the F/OSS community that are worth
taking a peek at to snatch a hint or two on how we can tackle this
task.
Considering all this we propose a change in maintaining the U-Boot
code base to a model similar to what is currently being done with the
Linux kernel, namely we would like to establish a community of
"custodian" maintainers, responsible for certain sub-systems,
aspects, architectures, or board families of the U-Boot source tree.
We would like to follow the Linux precedent by assembling a list of
people willing to invest time and effort into this; the already
existing MAINTAINERS file will serve a new function to list the
individual custodians with their corresponding area of responsibilty
and contact information.
Each custodian will have to administrate his or her git tree to
streamline transparent development and integration (pulling) into the
"official" U-Boot repository. If the need should arise (for example,
if a custodian doesn't have convenient means to host it himself),
DENX will of course be glad to host such trees.
The stated goal of this change of course is to spread the burden of
maintaining U-Boot to more shoulders so we can hopefully dramatically
cut down on the current lag between a patch being proposed on the
mailing list and being processed - be that accepting, rejecting or
openly discussing it with the community.
As you must have realized by now, this cannot be done without the
community participating, so what do you think of this idea? Any
comments or suggestions?
Of course we should be honest right upfront and state that as a
custodian you would be fully responsible for "your" part of the
U-Boot source tree and it is unfortunately necessary, that you are
able to commit to a certain amount of time and willingness to discuss
topics on the mailing list for this maintenance.
Do we have an immediate line of volunteers raising in the first row?
Skimming through the archives we came up with a list of people which
the U-Boot project already is indebted to and probably being good
candidates for custodians. Of course this list cannot and does not
want to be a "credits" list of all the valuable people having
contributed, so please don't attribute anything else to it as being a
starting point for this new maintenance mode. Also there are multiple
suggestions where ultimately of course we would like the community to
decide.
So with all these precautions in place, here we go:
ARM architecture Richard Woodruff, Peter Pearse
AVR32 architecture Haavard Skinnemoen
Blackfin architecture Aubrey Li
Intel IXP architecture Stefan Roese
ColdFire architecture Stefan Roese
Microblaze architecture Michal Simek
MIPS architecture Rodolfo Giometti, Andrew Dyer
MPC83xx architecture Kim Phillips
MPC85xx architecture Jon Loelinger
MPC86xx architecture Jon Loelinger
MPC8xx architecture Wolfgang Denk
NIOS(2) Scott McNutt
PPC4xx architecture Stefan Roese
CFI FLASH driver Tolunay Orkun
NAND FLASH subsystem Ladislav Michl, Stefan Roese
USB drivers Markus Klotzb?cher
So thanks for bearing with us through this longwinded mail that
hopefully starts to pave the way to a new level of quality and extent
of the U-Boot project that is only possibly through its very active
community - you!
Best regards,
Wolfgang Denk, Stefan Roese, Detlev Zundel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 65+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-03-06 16:29 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 65+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-02-01 11:31 [U-Boot-Users] Changes to U-Boot Development Process Peter.Pearse
2007-02-01 15:37 ` Grant Likely
[not found] <006d01c75fca$03b87040$0f4565d5@atmel.com>
2007-03-06 14:12 ` Peter Pearse
2007-03-06 14:49 ` Wolfgang Denk
[not found] <20070306103035.GE6726@gundam.enneenne.com>
2007-03-06 12:47 ` Wolfgang Denk
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-03-05 23:09 Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 6:46 ` Aubrey Li
2007-03-06 9:19 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 9:29 ` Aubrey Li
2007-03-06 10:47 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 10:52 ` Aubrey Li
2007-03-06 7:57 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-03-06 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 10:28 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-03-06 15:42 ` Jon Loeliger
2007-03-06 15:59 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 16:05 ` Jon Loeliger
2007-03-06 16:11 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-03-06 16:29 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-03-06 16:27 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-02-12 9:47 Peter Pearse
2007-02-08 0:52 Wolfgang Denk
2007-02-08 15:12 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-01-17 21:24 Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 0:36 ` Scott McNutt
2007-01-18 11:18 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-01-18 14:46 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-18 14:51 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-18 16:25 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 16:23 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 17:40 ` Kim Phillips
2007-01-18 21:10 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-18 21:20 ` Timur Tabi
2007-01-18 21:40 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 7:17 ` Stefan Roese
2007-01-19 7:37 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-19 10:08 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 14:35 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-19 14:58 ` Timur Tabi
2007-01-19 10:05 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 10:19 ` Stefan Roese
2007-01-19 15:05 ` Timur Tabi
2007-01-19 12:03 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-19 16:18 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
2007-01-18 18:50 ` Rodolfo Giometti
2007-01-18 21:12 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-19 10:23 ` Tolunay Orkun
2007-01-19 16:03 ` Haavard Skinnemoen
2007-01-19 16:21 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-20 21:33 ` Michal Simek
2007-01-21 20:24 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
2007-01-21 20:39 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-21 20:49 ` Guennadi Liakhovetski
2007-01-22 9:23 ` Sam Song
2007-01-22 22:04 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 4:22 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 8:31 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-26 9:54 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 13:38 ` Jerry Van Baren
2007-01-26 15:52 ` Aubrey Li
2007-01-26 16:06 ` Wolfgang Denk
2007-01-26 8:49 ` Grant Likely
2007-01-26 11:46 ` Josh Boyer
2007-01-26 14:36 ` Wolfgang Denk
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