Re: Internal Speaker problem

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken setup?!

It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
Linux, too.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:

> I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I would
> amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original email.
>
> The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also, the
> setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what exactly
> broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using Archlinux.
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Alsa Developers,
>>
>> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped working.
>> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of seconds
>> and then it would go off.
>>
>> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that it is
>> disabled.
>>
>> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db
>> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
>>
>> Do you know how I could fix this?
>>
>> Ys, L.
>>
>>
>

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Arun Raghavan]

Looping in the PA mailing list in case someone has ideas.

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017, at 12:14 PM, Laszlo Papp wrote:
> Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken setup?!
> 
> It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
> Linux, too.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> 
> > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I would
> > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original email.
> >
> > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also, the
> > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what exactly
> > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using Archlinux.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> >>
> >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped working.
> >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of seconds
> >> and then it would go off.
> >>
> >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that it is
> >> disabled.
> >>
> >> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> >>
> >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> >>
> >> Ys, L.
> >>
> >>
> >
_______________________________________________
pulseaudio-discuss mailing list
pulseaudio-discuss@lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/pulseaudio-discuss

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Takashi Iwai]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
Laszlo Papp wrote:
> 
> Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken setup?!
> 
> It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
> Linux, too.

Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what went
wrong.


Takashi

> 
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> 
> > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I would
> > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original email.
> >
> > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also, the
> > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what exactly
> > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using Archlinux.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> >>
> >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped working.
> >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of seconds
> >> and then it would go off.
> >>
> >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that it is
> >> disabled.
> >>
> >> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> >>
> >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> >>
> >> Ys, L.
> >>
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Alsa-devel mailing list
> Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> 

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> Laszlo Papp wrote:
> >
> > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken setup?!
> >
> > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
> > Linux, too.
>
> Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
> try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
> started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what went
> wrong.
>


I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked this with a
live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The sound goes
off within a couple of seconds.

sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0

would bring the node back for less a minute, but that is also not
acceptable.

So, basically, I would like it to work the same way it does on Windows if
possible. Windows does not switch it off. It could be because they utilise
the internal chip better and for other reasons, etc. At the end of the day,
I would be even happier to persistently tell the node to stay up, no matter
what. It may damage the internal speaker, but it is still better that I can
use it for a while than I cannot use it for any amount of time at all. So,
is there a way to achieve that bruteforce approach?

The nicer solution would surely be to figure out why Windows can cope with
the same hardware. I do not think Windows would break the hardware.

Ys, L.


> Takashi
>
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I would
> > > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original email.
> > >
> > > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also, the
> > > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what exactly
> > > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using Archlinux.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> > >>
> > >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped
> working.
> > >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of
> seconds
> > >> and then it would go off.
> > >>
> > >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that it
> is
> > >> disabled.
> > >>
> > >> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> > >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> > >>
> > >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> > >>
> > >> Ys, L.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alsa-devel mailing list
> > Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> >
>

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Takashi Iwai]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:13:32 +0200,
Laszlo Papp wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > >
> > > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken setup?!
> > >
> > > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
> > > Linux, too.
> >
> > Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
> > try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
> > started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what went
> > wrong.
> >
> 
> 
> I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked this with a
> live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The sound goes
> off within a couple of seconds.
> 
> sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0
> 
> would bring the node back for less a minute, but that is also not
> acceptable.
> 
> So, basically, I would like it to work the same way it does on Windows if
> possible. Windows does not switch it off. It could be because they utilise
> the internal chip better and for other reasons, etc. At the end of the day,
> I would be even happier to persistently tell the node to stay up, no matter
> what. It may damage the internal speaker, but it is still better that I can
> use it for a while than I cannot use it for any amount of time at all. So,
> is there a way to achieve that bruteforce approach?
> 
> The nicer solution would surely be to figure out why Windows can cope with
> the same hardware. I do not think Windows would break the hardware.

Check whether power_save is set or not in snd-hda-intel option, see
/sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save.  If disabling the
power-save prevents the issue happening, the cause is the power-save
feature.

If the problem still happens even if you disable the power-save mode
in the driver, it's possibly a hardware-specific problem.  Some Lenovo
laptops have a known firmware issues that turn off the codec power.
I'm not sure whether it's the case.


Takashi

> 
> Ys, L.
> 
> 
> > Takashi
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I would
> > > > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original email.
> > > >
> > > > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also, the
> > > > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what exactly
> > > > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using Archlinux.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> > > >>
> > > >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped
> > working.
> > > >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of
> > seconds
> > > >> and then it would go off.
> > > >>
> > > >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that it
> > is
> > > >> disabled.
> > > >>
> > > >> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> > > >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> > > >>
> > > >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> > > >>
> > > >> Ys, L.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Alsa-devel mailing list
> > > Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> > > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> > >
> >

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Takashi Iwai]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:20:17 +0200,
Takashi Iwai wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:13:32 +0200,
> Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken setup?!
> > > >
> > > > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
> > > > Linux, too.
> > >
> > > Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
> > > try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
> > > started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what went
> > > wrong.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked this with a
> > live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The sound goes
> > off within a couple of seconds.

BTW, this contradict with what you stated before.  You wrote:

> The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also, the
> setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what exactly
> broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using Archlinux.

Are you sure it used to work?  If yes, you need to figure out what
changed.  If it's not the change in OS, something else must have
triggered it.


Takashi

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:13:32 +0200,
> Laszlo Papp wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken
> setup?!
> > > >
> > > > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
> > > > Linux, too.
> > >
> > > Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
> > > try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
> > > started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what went
> > > wrong.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked this
> with a
> > live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The sound goes
> > off within a couple of seconds.
> >
> > sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0
> >
> > would bring the node back for less a minute, but that is also not
> > acceptable.
> >
> > So, basically, I would like it to work the same way it does on Windows if
> > possible. Windows does not switch it off. It could be because they
> utilise
> > the internal chip better and for other reasons, etc. At the end of the
> day,
> > I would be even happier to persistently tell the node to stay up, no
> matter
> > what. It may damage the internal speaker, but it is still better that I
> can
> > use it for a while than I cannot use it for any amount of time at all.
> So,
> > is there a way to achieve that bruteforce approach?
> >
> > The nicer solution would surely be to figure out why Windows can cope
> with
> > the same hardware. I do not think Windows would break the hardware.
>
> Check whether power_save is set or not in snd-hda-intel option, see
> /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save.  If disabling the
> power-save prevents the issue happening, the cause is the power-save
> feature.
>
> If the problem still happens even if you disable the power-save mode
> in the driver, it's possibly a hardware-specific problem.  Some Lenovo
> laptops have a known firmware issues that turn off the codec power.
> I'm not sure whether it's the case.
>

cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save
0

Back to my previous question: is there a way to permanently tell the node
to remain up? As mentioned, some use before the hardware breaks is better
than no use. I will not switch to Windows by any means as I really like
Linux much better. I would rather buy a new laptop than switching to
Windows. But before doing that, I would like to see what can be worked out
with the current setup.

Yes, I agree with you that something has triggered this issue over time.
However, all I can say is that Windows has no such problems if I boot my
laptop up with Windows 7. The OS can play sounds without any problems. So,
I am not yet convinced whether we are in a position to blame the hardware
at this point. I would love to see some evidence if that is the case

It is needless to say, but I am happy to send any further outputs
requested, etc.

Thank you for your help so far.


>
>
> Takashi
>
> >
> > Ys, L.
> >
> >
> > > Takashi
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I
> would
> > > > > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original
> email.
> > > > >
> > > > > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also,
> the
> > > > > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what
> exactly
> > > > > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using
> Archlinux.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped
> > > working.
> > > > >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of
> > > seconds
> > > > >> and then it would go off.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that
> it
> > > is
> > > > >> disabled.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> > > > >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ys, L.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Alsa-devel mailing list
> > > > Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> > > > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> > > >
> > >
>

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Takashi Iwai]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:27:37 +0200,
Laszlo Papp wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:13:32 +0200,
> > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> > > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken
> > setup?!
> > > > >
> > > > > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it working on
> > > > > Linux, too.
> > > >
> > > > Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
> > > > try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
> > > > started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what went
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked this
> > with a
> > > live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The sound goes
> > > off within a couple of seconds.
> > >
> > > sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0
> > >
> > > would bring the node back for less a minute, but that is also not
> > > acceptable.
> > >
> > > So, basically, I would like it to work the same way it does on Windows if
> > > possible. Windows does not switch it off. It could be because they
> > utilise
> > > the internal chip better and for other reasons, etc. At the end of the
> > day,
> > > I would be even happier to persistently tell the node to stay up, no
> > matter
> > > what. It may damage the internal speaker, but it is still better that I
> > can
> > > use it for a while than I cannot use it for any amount of time at all.
> > So,
> > > is there a way to achieve that bruteforce approach?
> > >
> > > The nicer solution would surely be to figure out why Windows can cope
> > with
> > > the same hardware. I do not think Windows would break the hardware.
> >
> > Check whether power_save is set or not in snd-hda-intel option, see
> > /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save.  If disabling the
> > power-save prevents the issue happening, the cause is the power-save
> > feature.
> >
> > If the problem still happens even if you disable the power-save mode
> > in the driver, it's possibly a hardware-specific problem.  Some Lenovo
> > laptops have a known firmware issues that turn off the codec power.
> > I'm not sure whether it's the case.
> >
> 
> cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save
> 0
> 
> Back to my previous question: is there a way to permanently tell the node
> to remain up? As mentioned, some use before the hardware breaks is better
> than no use. I will not switch to Windows by any means as I really like
> Linux much better. I would rather buy a new laptop than switching to
> Windows. But before doing that, I would like to see what can be worked out
> with the current setup.

As I mentioned, it's possibly the BIOS firmware who does it, no the
Linux kernel driver.  You can watch the driver behavior via tracepoint
outputs (see Documentation/sound/hd-audio/notes.rtf).  If it shows the
widget power down, it's the driver issue.  If it still happens even
though the kernel doesn't touch, it's a hardware firmware problem.


Takashi

> Yes, I agree with you that something has triggered this issue over time.
> However, all I can say is that Windows has no such problems if I boot my
> laptop up with Windows 7. The OS can play sounds without any problems. So,
> I am not yet convinced whether we are in a position to blame the hardware
> at this point. I would love to see some evidence if that is the case
> 
> It is needless to say, but I am happy to send any further outputs
> requested, etc.
> 
> Thank you for your help so far.
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Takashi
> >
> > >
> > > Ys, L.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Takashi
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I
> > would
> > > > > > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original
> > email.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also,
> > the
> > > > > > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what
> > exactly
> > > > > > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using
> > Archlinux.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped
> > > > working.
> > > > > >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of
> > > > seconds
> > > > > >> and then it would go off.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > >> disabled.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> > > > > >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ys, L.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Alsa-devel mailing list
> > > > > Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> > > > > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> > > > >
> > > >
> >

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:27:37 +0200,
> Laszlo Papp wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:13:32 +0200,
> > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> > > > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken
> > > setup?!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it
> working on
> > > > > > Linux, too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
> > > > > try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
> > > > > started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what
> went
> > > > > wrong.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked this
> > > with a
> > > > live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The sound
> goes
> > > > off within a couple of seconds.
> > > >
> > > > sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0
> > > >
> > > > would bring the node back for less a minute, but that is also not
> > > > acceptable.
> > > >
> > > > So, basically, I would like it to work the same way it does on
> Windows if
> > > > possible. Windows does not switch it off. It could be because they
> > > utilise
> > > > the internal chip better and for other reasons, etc. At the end of
> the
> > > day,
> > > > I would be even happier to persistently tell the node to stay up, no
> > > matter
> > > > what. It may damage the internal speaker, but it is still better
> that I
> > > can
> > > > use it for a while than I cannot use it for any amount of time at
> all.
> > > So,
> > > > is there a way to achieve that bruteforce approach?
> > > >
> > > > The nicer solution would surely be to figure out why Windows can cope
> > > with
> > > > the same hardware. I do not think Windows would break the hardware.
> > >
> > > Check whether power_save is set or not in snd-hda-intel option, see
> > > /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save.  If disabling the
> > > power-save prevents the issue happening, the cause is the power-save
> > > feature.
> > >
> > > If the problem still happens even if you disable the power-save mode
> > > in the driver, it's possibly a hardware-specific problem.  Some Lenovo
> > > laptops have a known firmware issues that turn off the codec power.
> > > I'm not sure whether it's the case.
> > >
> >
> > cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save
> > 0
> >
> > Back to my previous question: is there a way to permanently tell the node
> > to remain up? As mentioned, some use before the hardware breaks is better
> > than no use. I will not switch to Windows by any means as I really like
> > Linux much better. I would rather buy a new laptop than switching to
> > Windows. But before doing that, I would like to see what can be worked
> out
> > with the current setup.
>
> As I mentioned, it's possibly the BIOS firmware who does it, no the
> Linux kernel driver.  You can watch the driver behavior via tracepoint
> outputs (see Documentation/sound/hd-audio/notes.rtf).  If it shows the
> widget power down, it's the driver issue.  If it still happens even
> though the kernel doesn't touch, it's a hardware firmware problem.
>

I am not sure whether I have done what you requested, so please let me know
whether this is sufficien information to you:

root /home/lpapp # echo 1 > /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/events/hda/enable
(start mplayer)
root /home/lpapp # cat /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/trace > trace.log
root /home/lpapp # wgetpaste trace.log
Your paste can be seen here:
https://paste.pound-python.org/show/5BBURUwPuYu5SYEpTpa5/
root /home/lpapp #

But please let me ask you one question: if it is a BIOS problem, it should
have happened from day one, or not necessarily? Also, why does the BIOS not
kick in when using Windows?


>
> Takashi
>
> > Yes, I agree with you that something has triggered this issue over time.
> > However, all I can say is that Windows has no such problems if I boot my
> > laptop up with Windows 7. The OS can play sounds without any problems.
> So,
> > I am not yet convinced whether we are in a position to blame the hardware
> > at this point. I would love to see some evidence if that is the case
> >
> > It is needless to say, but I am happy to send any further outputs
> > requested, etc.
> >
> > Thank you for your help so far.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Takashi
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ys, L.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Takashi
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I
> > > would
> > > > > > > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original
> > > email.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10.
> Also,
> > > the
> > > > > > > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what
> > > exactly
> > > > > > > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using
> > > Archlinux.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped
> > > > > working.
> > > > > > >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a
> couple of
> > > > > seconds
> > > > > > >> and then it would go off.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer
> that
> > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > >> disabled.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> My ALSA information is located at
> http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> > > > > > >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Ys, L.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Alsa-devel mailing list
> > > > > > Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> > > > > > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Takashi Iwai]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:46:34 +0200,
Laszlo Papp wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:27:37 +0200,
> > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:13:32 +0200,
> > > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> > > > > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely broken
> > > > setup?!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it
> > working on
> > > > > > > Linux, too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at best,
> > > > > > try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point it
> > > > > > started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what
> > went
> > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked this
> > > > with a
> > > > > live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The sound
> > goes
> > > > > off within a couple of seconds.
> > > > >
> > > > > sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0
> > > > >
> > > > > would bring the node back for less a minute, but that is also not
> > > > > acceptable.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, basically, I would like it to work the same way it does on
> > Windows if
> > > > > possible. Windows does not switch it off. It could be because they
> > > > utilise
> > > > > the internal chip better and for other reasons, etc. At the end of
> > the
> > > > day,
> > > > > I would be even happier to persistently tell the node to stay up, no
> > > > matter
> > > > > what. It may damage the internal speaker, but it is still better
> > that I
> > > > can
> > > > > use it for a while than I cannot use it for any amount of time at
> > all.
> > > > So,
> > > > > is there a way to achieve that bruteforce approach?
> > > > >
> > > > > The nicer solution would surely be to figure out why Windows can cope
> > > > with
> > > > > the same hardware. I do not think Windows would break the hardware.
> > > >
> > > > Check whether power_save is set or not in snd-hda-intel option, see
> > > > /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save.  If disabling the
> > > > power-save prevents the issue happening, the cause is the power-save
> > > > feature.
> > > >
> > > > If the problem still happens even if you disable the power-save mode
> > > > in the driver, it's possibly a hardware-specific problem.  Some Lenovo
> > > > laptops have a known firmware issues that turn off the codec power.
> > > > I'm not sure whether it's the case.
> > > >
> > >
> > > cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save
> > > 0
> > >
> > > Back to my previous question: is there a way to permanently tell the node
> > > to remain up? As mentioned, some use before the hardware breaks is better
> > > than no use. I will not switch to Windows by any means as I really like
> > > Linux much better. I would rather buy a new laptop than switching to
> > > Windows. But before doing that, I would like to see what can be worked
> > out
> > > with the current setup.
> >
> > As I mentioned, it's possibly the BIOS firmware who does it, no the
> > Linux kernel driver.  You can watch the driver behavior via tracepoint
> > outputs (see Documentation/sound/hd-audio/notes.rtf).  If it shows the
> > widget power down, it's the driver issue.  If it still happens even
> > though the kernel doesn't touch, it's a hardware firmware problem.
> >
> 
> I am not sure whether I have done what you requested, so please let me know
> whether this is sufficien information to you:
> 
> root /home/lpapp # echo 1 > /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/events/hda/enable
> (start mplayer)
> root /home/lpapp # cat /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/trace > trace.log
> root /home/lpapp # wgetpaste trace.log
> Your paste can be seen here:
> https://paste.pound-python.org/show/5BBURUwPuYu5SYEpTpa5/
> root /home/lpapp #

Is it already the state where the power-off happened?
The log doesn't show any power control.  That is, the driver doesn't
touch the codec power by itself at all.  You can try to decode the
verbs (val=xxx), e.g. hda-decode-verb program included in hda-emu.

> But please let me ask you one question: if it is a BIOS problem, it should
> have happened from day one, or not necessarily? Also, why does the BIOS not
> kick in when using Windows?

No idea, it's BIOS, so only Lenovo knows, after all.
There can be some vendor-specific magic.

It's supposedly some stuff to protect against the overheat.  That
might be the reason it didn't happened before.  By the longer usage,
the heat flow was worsened (e.g. dust in the air duct).


Takashi

> 
> 
> >
> > Takashi
> >
> > > Yes, I agree with you that something has triggered this issue over time.
> > > However, all I can say is that Windows has no such problems if I boot my
> > > laptop up with Windows 7. The OS can play sounds without any problems.
> > So,
> > > I am not yet convinced whether we are in a position to blame the hardware
> > > at this point. I would love to see some evidence if that is the case
> > >
> > > It is needless to say, but I am happy to send any further outputs
> > > requested, etc.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your help so far.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Takashi
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ys, L.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Takashi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I
> > > > would
> > > > > > > > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my original
> > > > email.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10.
> > Also,
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what
> > > > exactly
> > > > > > > > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using
> > > > Archlinux.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped
> > > > > > working.
> > > > > > > >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a
> > couple of
> > > > > > seconds
> > > > > > > >> and then it would go off.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> disabled.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> My ALSA information is located at
> > http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> > > > > > > >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Ys, L.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Alsa-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> > > > > > > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> [2  <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
> 

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:46:34 +0200,
> Laszlo Papp wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:27:37 +0200,
> > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:13:32 +0200,
> > > > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:44:46 +0200,
> > > > > > > Laszlo Papp wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Guys, seriously, no one willing to help with a completely
> broken
> > > > > setup?!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It works fine on Windows, so I would really like to get it
> > > working on
> > > > > > > > Linux, too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, if it used to work, it's basically a regression, and at
> best,
> > > > > > > try to downgrade kernel or whatever to identify at which point
> it
> > > > > > > started regression.  It'd be a great help alone to analyze what
> > > went
> > > > > > > wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do not think this is a regression. I have just double checked
> this
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > live USB using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The same problem happens. The
> sound
> > > goes
> > > > > > off within a couple of seconds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0
> > > > > >
> > > > > > would bring the node back for less a minute, but that is also not
> > > > > > acceptable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, basically, I would like it to work the same way it does on
> > > Windows if
> > > > > > possible. Windows does not switch it off. It could be because
> they
> > > > > utilise
> > > > > > the internal chip better and for other reasons, etc. At the end
> of
> > > the
> > > > > day,
> > > > > > I would be even happier to persistently tell the node to stay
> up, no
> > > > > matter
> > > > > > what. It may damage the internal speaker, but it is still better
> > > that I
> > > > > can
> > > > > > use it for a while than I cannot use it for any amount of time at
> > > all.
> > > > > So,
> > > > > > is there a way to achieve that bruteforce approach?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The nicer solution would surely be to figure out why Windows can
> cope
> > > > > with
> > > > > > the same hardware. I do not think Windows would break the
> hardware.
> > > > >
> > > > > Check whether power_save is set or not in snd-hda-intel option, see
> > > > > /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save.  If disabling the
> > > > > power-save prevents the issue happening, the cause is the
> power-save
> > > > > feature.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the problem still happens even if you disable the power-save
> mode
> > > > > in the driver, it's possibly a hardware-specific problem.  Some
> Lenovo
> > > > > laptops have a known firmware issues that turn off the codec power.
> > > > > I'm not sure whether it's the case.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save
> > > > 0
> > > >
> > > > Back to my previous question: is there a way to permanently tell the
> node
> > > > to remain up? As mentioned, some use before the hardware breaks is
> better
> > > > than no use. I will not switch to Windows by any means as I really
> like
> > > > Linux much better. I would rather buy a new laptop than switching to
> > > > Windows. But before doing that, I would like to see what can be
> worked
> > > out
> > > > with the current setup.
> > >
> > > As I mentioned, it's possibly the BIOS firmware who does it, no the
> > > Linux kernel driver.  You can watch the driver behavior via tracepoint
> > > outputs (see Documentation/sound/hd-audio/notes.rtf).  If it shows the
> > > widget power down, it's the driver issue.  If it still happens even
> > > though the kernel doesn't touch, it's a hardware firmware problem.
> > >
> >
> > I am not sure whether I have done what you requested, so please let me
> know
> > whether this is sufficien information to you:
> >
> > root /home/lpapp # echo 1 > /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/events/hda/enable
> > (start mplayer)
> > root /home/lpapp # cat /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/trace > trace.log
> > root /home/lpapp # wgetpaste trace.log
> > Your paste can be seen here:
> > https://paste.pound-python.org/show/5BBURUwPuYu5SYEpTpa5/
> > root /home/lpapp #
>
> Is it already the state where the power-off happened?
> The log doesn't show any power control.  That is, the driver doesn't
> touch the codec power by itself at all.  You can try to decode the
> verbs (val=xxx), e.g. hda-decode-verb program included in hda-emu.
>

Alright, I have done the following steps:

1) Start youtube.

2) echo 1 > /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/events/hda/enable

3) sudo hda-verb /dev/snd/hwC0D0 0x1f SET_POWER_STATE 0

4) cat /sys/kernel/debug/tracing/trace > trace.log

You can see the output now here:
https://paste.pound-python.org/show/6PkQjJJDgV3acEcxy6C3/



> > But please let me ask you one question: if it is a BIOS problem, it
> should
> > have happened from day one, or not necessarily? Also, why does the BIOS
> not
> > kick in when using Windows?
>
> No idea, it's BIOS, so only Lenovo knows, after all.
> There can be some vendor-specific magic.
>
> It's supposedly some stuff to protect against the overheat.  That
> might be the reason it didn't happened before.  By the longer usage,
> the heat flow was worsened (e.g. dust in the air duct).
>

It still does not happen on Windows and I cannot possibly believe that
Windows would damage a laptop by not detecting overheat.


>
> Takashi
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Takashi
> > >
> > > > Yes, I agree with you that something has triggered this issue over
> time.
> > > > However, all I can say is that Windows has no such problems if I
> boot my
> > > > laptop up with Windows 7. The OS can play sounds without any
> problems.
> > > So,
> > > > I am not yet convinced whether we are in a position to blame the
> hardware
> > > > at this point. I would love to see some evidence if that is the case
> > > >
> > > > It is needless to say, but I am happy to send any further outputs
> > > > requested, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your help so far.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Takashi
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ys, L.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Takashi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought
> that I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > amend some information that I forgot to mention in my
> original
> > > > > email.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10.
> > > Also,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > setup used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember
> what
> > > > > exactly
> > > > > > > > > broke, perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using
> > > > > Archlinux.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <
> lpapp@kde.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Dear Alsa Developers,
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop
> stopped
> > > > > > > working.
> > > > > > > > >> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a
> > > couple of
> > > > > > > seconds
> > > > > > > > >> and then it would go off.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with
> alsamixer
> > > that
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> disabled.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> My ALSA information is located at
> > > http://www.alsa-project.org/db
> > > > > > > > >> /?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Do you know how I could fix this?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Ys, L.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Alsa-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
> > > > > > > > http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > [2  <text/html; UTF-8 (quoted-printable)>]
> >
>

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

Right, so I am so sorry about misleading you.

It turns out that I could reproduce the issue even on Windows. I just had
to try that harder than I thought.

Before checking whether I could get a cooler, do you think it would be
worthwhile changing the BIOS firmware and/or cleaning up the dust
internally after disassemblying it carefully?

Thank you for all your help.

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Takashi Iwai]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:02:12 +0200,
Laszlo Papp wrote:
> 
> Right, so I am so sorry about misleading you.
> 
> It turns out that I could reproduce the issue even on Windows. I just had
> to try that harder than I thought.
> 
> Before checking whether I could get a cooler, do you think it would be
> worthwhile changing the BIOS firmware and/or cleaning up the dust
> internally after disassemblying it carefully?

Yes, both might help in such a case.


Takashi

Re: Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

I am sorry about flooding with my emails. I just thought that I would amend
some information that I forgot to mention in my original email.

The same laptop and internal speaker work ok on Windows 10. Also, the setup
used to work about 1-2 months ago. I cannot remember what exactly broke,
perhaps a system upgrade. If it matters, I am using Archlinux.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:

> Dear Alsa Developers,
>
> My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped working.
> Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of seconds
> and then it would go off.
>
> I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that it is
> disabled.
>
> My ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=
> 87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091
>
> Do you know how I could fix this?
>
> Ys, L.
>
>

Internal Speaker problem

[Laszlo Papp]

Dear Alsa Developers,

My internal speaker in the Lenovo Thinkpad T510 laptop stopped working.
Normally, it would provide either no sound or just for a couple of seconds
and then it would go off.

I do not have auto-mute enabled. I checked it with alsamixer that it is
disabled.

My ALSA information is located at
http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=87547de5ff55e44e360aa2382d4e5d3b7bbed091

Do you know how I could fix this?

Ys, L.