* Re: [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim
2016-02-13 12:44 [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim Gavin Henry
@ 2016-02-15 22:03 ` Ben Schmidt
2016-02-15 22:21 ` Ben Schmidt
` (3 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Ben Schmidt @ 2016-02-15 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mlmmj
Strange.
It looks like a regular help email, the type you would expect from
sending an email to surevoip-service-status+help@lists.suretec.net but
it's going to mailer-daemon@... as if mailer-daemon sent an email to
that address.
I'm thinking that perhaps something is messed up with your delimiter,
i.e. +bounces-help is being treated like +help (+bounces-help is the
address used when + commands fail, like subscription, etc.).
Do other + commands work, e.g. subscribing via email?
What happens if you send an email to the help address (above) from an
address at which you can receive replies?
What if you replace the '+' with a '-'?
Is there anything revealing in "mlmmj-operation.log"? There should be an
"XXX requested help" line when help emails are sent out.
Ben
On 13/02/2016 11:44 pm, Gavin Henry wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Our smart host is complaining about bounce help emails getting generated to them.
> We're using the exim4 readme for this. Here's an example below. Any ideas?
>
> Here's one of them:
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Envelope-To: servicedesk@gladserv.com <mailto:servicedesk@gladserv.com>
> X-Delivered-To: mailer-daemon@gladserv.com <mailto:mailer-daemon@gladserv.com>
> X-Delivered-To: postmaster@gladserv.com <mailto:postmaster@gladserv.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Message-ID: <1455291628-15131-mlmmj-058e7860@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:1455291628-15131-mlmmj-058e7860@lists.suretec.net>>
> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)
> Received: from clemens.alpha.gladserv.net <http://clemens.alpha.gladserv.net/>
> ([2001:41c8:123:a206::2]:39321) by livius.septime.gladserv.com
> <http://livius.septime.gladserv.com/> with
> esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.75) (envelope-from
> <surevoip-service-status+bounces-help@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bbounces-help@lists.suretec.net>>) id
> 1aUFpd-0002qa-BX for servicedesk@gladserv.com <mailto:servicedesk@gladserv.com>;
> Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:40:29
> +0000
> Received: from bregans.neuvieme.gladserv.com <http://bregans.neuvieme.gladserv.com/>
> ([2001:41c8:123:328::2]:52285) by clemens.alpha.gladserv.net
> <http://clemens.alpha.gladserv.net/> with esmtps
> (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80_121-2de1f5c) (envelope-from
> <surevoip-service-status+bounces-help@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bbounces-help@lists.suretec.net>>) id
> 1aUFpc-00051y-PB for Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com
> <mailto:Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com>; Fri, 12 Feb 2016
> 15:40:29 +0000
> Received: from governor.surevoip.co.uk
> <http://governor.surevoip.co.uk/> ([185.8.92.26]:60495) by
> bregans.neuvieme.gladserv.com <http://bregans.neuvieme.gladserv.com/> with esmtpsa
> (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from
> <surevoip-service-status+bounces-help@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bbounces-help@lists.suretec.net>>) id
> 1aUFpc-0005vm-Ey for Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com
> <mailto:Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com>; Fri, 12 Feb 2016
> 15:40:28 +0000
> Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=governor.surevoip.co.uk
> <http://governor.surevoip.co.uk/>) by
> governor.surevoip.co.uk <http://governor.surevoip.co.uk/> with smtp (Exim 4.80)
> (envelope-from
> <surevoip-service-status+bounces-help@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bbounces-help@lists.suretec.net>>) id
> 1aUFpc-0003w5-4w for Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com
> <mailto:Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com>; Fri, 12 Feb 2016
> 15:40:28 +0000
> X-Country: GB
> Subject: Information for surevoip-service-status@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status@lists.suretec.net>
> X-Spam-Nocheck: No
> Return-Path: <surevoip-service-status+bounces-help@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bbounces-help@lists.suretec.net>>
> X-Spam-Report: Content analysis details: (-1.0 points, 5.0 required)
> pts rule name description ---- ----------------------
> -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED
> Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP
> Delivery-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:40:29 +0000
> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:40:28 +0000
> To: Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com <mailto:Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> From: surevoip-service-status+owner@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bowner@lists.suretec.net>
> X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8
> Content-Length: 1815
>
> Hi, this is the Mlmmj program managing the
> <surevoip-service-status@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status@lists.suretec.net>> mailing list.
>
> Here is some information about the list.
>
> Full public archives are available at:
>
> https://lists.suretec.net/archives/surevoip-service-status
>
> You can subscribe to the following versions:
>
> - The normal version: Every time a post is sent to the list, subscribers
> receive a copy of it. Subscribe by emailing
> <surevoip-service-status+subscribe@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bsubscribe@lists.suretec.net>>.
>
> - The digest version: Subscribers receive multiple posts in a single mail
> message, at regular intervals, or when a lot of posts have accumulated.
> Subscribe by emailing
> <surevoip-service-status+subscribe-digest@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bsubscribe-digest@lists.suretec.net>>.
>
> - The no-mail version: Subscribers do not receive any posts to the list.
> This means, though, they are able to post to a list which only
> subscribers may post to, while they follow the list using a web archive
> or another subscribed email address. Subscribe by emailing
> <surevoip-service-status+subscribe-nomail@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bsubscribe-nomail@lists.suretec.net>>.
>
> The list has gatekeepers who will review subscription requests before
> permitting new members.
>
> Unsubscribe by emailing
> <surevoip-service-status+unsubscribe@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bunsubscribe@lists.suretec.net>>.
>
> Posts are made by emailing <surevoip-service-status@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status@lists.suretec.net>>.
>
> The list has moderators who will review all posts before releasing them to
> the list.
>
> Subscribers can retrieve message number N from the list's archive by
> sending a message to <surevoip-service-status+get-N@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bget-N@lists.suretec.net>>
> (change the N to the number of the desired message).
>
> You can retrieve the frequently asked questions document for the list by
> sending a message to <surevoip-service-status+faq@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bfaq@lists.suretec.net>>.
>
> To contact the list owner, send a message to
> <surevoip-service-status+owner@lists.suretec.net
> <mailto:surevoip-service-status%2Bowner@lists.suretec.net>>.
>
>
> --
> Kind Regards,
>
> Gavin Henry.
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* Re: [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim
2016-02-13 12:44 [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim Gavin Henry
2016-02-15 22:03 ` Ben Schmidt
@ 2016-02-15 22:21 ` Ben Schmidt
2016-02-15 23:18 ` Ben Schmidt
` (2 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Ben Schmidt @ 2016-02-15 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mlmmj
(Forwarding reply to the list, as I accidentally took the conversation off-list
earlier.)
On 15/02/2016 9:28 pm, Gavin Henry wrote:
> On 15 February 2016 at 05:38, Ben Schmidt
> <mail_ben_schmidt@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> Strange.
>
> Yes, very. Our smarthost company has blocked our domain for now as
> it's creating tickets.
>
>> It looks like a regular help email, the type you would expect from
>> sending an email to surevoip-service-status+help@lists.suretec.net but
>> it's going to mailer-daemon@... as if mailer-daemon sent an email to
>> that address.
>
> Yes, true.
>
>> I'm thinking that perhaps something is messed up with your delimiter,
>> i.e. +bounces-help is being treated like +help (+bounces-help is the
>> address used when + commands fail, like subscription, etc.).
>>
>> Do other + commands work, e.g. subscribing via email?
>
> All others work. Oh, I didn't realise +bounces-help should return what
> +help does?
>
> Or should it?
>
>> What happens if you send an email to the help address (above) from an
>> address at which you can receive replies?
>
> All + actions are fine.
>
>> What if you replace the '+' with a '-'?
>
> Fails:
>
> root@governor:~# exim -bt surevoip-service-status-bounces-help@lists.suretec.net
> R: system_aliases for surevoip-service-status-bounces-help@lists.suretec.net
> surevoip-service-status-bounces-help@lists.suretec.net is
> undeliverable: Unrouteable address
>
>> Is there anything revealing in "mlmmj-operation.log"? There should be an
>> "XXX requested help" line when help emails are sent out.
>
> Just matching lines saying mailer-daemon requested help, as below:
>
> root@governor:~# grep -r help /var/spool/mlmmj/surevoip-service-status/*
>
> Thu Feb 11 15:50:37 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Thu Feb 11 15:55:22 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Thu Feb 11 16:26:38 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Thu Feb 11 19:53:30 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Thu Feb 11 20:05:22 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Thu Feb 11 20:05:29 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Thu Feb 11 22:21:45 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Fri Feb 12 04:20:24 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Fri Feb 12 10:39:31 2016 gavin.henry@gmail.com requested help
> Fri Feb 12 10:53:09 2016 gavin.henry@gmail.com requested help
> Fri Feb 12 15:40:28 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Fri Feb 12 15:43:48 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Fri Feb 12 17:38:37 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sat Feb 13 03:40:32 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sat Feb 13 03:55:32 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sat Feb 13 05:56:50 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sat Feb 13 21:40:37 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sat Feb 13 22:08:46 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 00:28:46 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 12:48:50 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 15:40:43 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 16:23:52 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 16:30:55 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 16:31:02 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 17:15:54 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 17:16:15 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 17:16:26 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Sun Feb 14 22:28:53 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Mon Feb 15 03:40:47 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Mon Feb 15 04:09:00 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
> Mon Feb 15 04:30:47 2016 Mailer-Daemon@gladserv.com requested help
>
> P.S. No updates for this year:
>
> http://mlmmj.org/archive/mlmmj/
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* Re: [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim
2016-02-13 12:44 [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim Gavin Henry
2016-02-15 22:03 ` Ben Schmidt
2016-02-15 22:21 ` Ben Schmidt
@ 2016-02-15 23:18 ` Ben Schmidt
2016-02-16 21:01 ` Gavin Henry
2016-02-17 19:28 ` Gavin Henry
4 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Ben Schmidt @ 2016-02-15 23:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mlmmj
>> I'm thinking that perhaps something is messed up with your delimiter,
>> i.e. +bounces-help is being treated like +help (+bounces-help is the
>> address used when + commands fail, like subscription, etc.).
>>
>> Do other + commands work, e.g. subscribing via email?
>
> All others work. Oh, I didn't realise +bounces-help should return what
> +help does?
>
> Or should it?
No, it shouldn't. Mlmmj should process it as a bounced 'help' message
(which could be one from +help or any other 'special' message Mlmmj
sends out, such as a request to confirm a subscription, etc.).
>> Is there anything revealing in "mlmmj-operation.log"? There should be an
>> "XXX requested help" line when help emails are sent out.
>
> Just matching lines saying mailer-daemon requested help, as below:
OK, that's good to know (along with your other diagnostics). It seems
that +help is truly being addressed.
Having looked through Mlmmj's source code and brainstormed, I think the
problem lies with how your mail is sent to your smart host.
Mlmmj sends subscription and unsubscription confirmation requests,
acknowledgements and errors, as well as digests, with a "From:" header
that is the list help address, but with an SMTP envelope-from that is
the bounce address.
It appears your mailer-daemon friend is, however, sending bounce
messages to the "From:" header.
No self-respecting MTA would do that, however.
So, I'm guessing the way your setup works is that you have Exim relaying
Mlmmj's outgoing messages. I suspect that it is saving the message to a
queue, discarding the SMTP envelope-from, and then when it grabs the
message out of the queue to deliver to your smart host, it is using the
"From:" header as the SMTP envelope-from. If that address is
undeliverable for any reason, your mailer-daemon friend sends a bounce
back, unfortunately to the wrong place, due to the substitution of the
"From:" header as the SMTP envelope-from. Mlmmj duly replies with the
help message, which your smart host redirects to their service desk
address.
What Exim should be doing is adding a Return-Path header to record the
SMTP envelope-from when it first accepts and queues the message, then
when it grabs the message from the queue, it should remove the
Return-Path header, but use its content for the SMTP envelope-from. Then
your upstream smart host will be given the correct envelope-from, and
bounces will go to the appropriate bounce address and be handled by
Mlmmj (automatically unsubscribing bouncing addresses, removing
confirmation bookkeeping for invalid addresses, etc.).
There are probably Exim configuration options that can be used to
achieve this. They're possibly off by default so that any user can't
just manipulate the envelope from by putting a Return-Path header in
their messages, potentially bypassing authentication which may
ordinarily be used to set the envelope from. I found these pages which
might help:
- <http://stackoverflow.com/a/7047164/4785823>
-
<http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch-generic_options_for_transports.html>
(see return_path_add and possibly return_path)
-
<http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch-message_processing.html>
(see point 15)
If you can get that working, I think things should settle down (and,
indeed, improve, because bouncing addresses will be handled, rather than
building up and making you look like a spammer).
That is, of course, assuming all of my guesses are correct about what's
going on here.
> P.S. No updates for this year:
>
> http://mlmmj.org/archive/mlmmj/
Yours was the first truly meaningful message of the year.
:-)
Ben
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim
2016-02-13 12:44 [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim Gavin Henry
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2016-02-15 23:18 ` Ben Schmidt
@ 2016-02-16 21:01 ` Gavin Henry
2016-02-17 19:28 ` Gavin Henry
4 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Gavin Henry @ 2016-02-16 21:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mlmmj
> There are probably Exim configuration options that can be used to
> achieve this. They're possibly off by default so that any user can't
> just manipulate the envelope from by putting a Return-Path header in
> their messages, potentially bypassing authentication which may
> ordinarily be used to set the envelope from. I found these pages which
> might help:
>
> - <http://stackoverflow.com/a/7047164/4785823>
> -
> <http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch-generic_options_for_transports.html>
> (see return_path_add and possibly return_path)
> -
> <http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch-message_processing.html>
> (see point 15)
>
> If you can get that working, I think things should settle down (and,
> indeed, improve, because bouncing addresses will be handled, rather than
> building up and making you look like a spammer).
>
> That is, of course, assuming all of my guesses are correct about what's
> going on here.
Ful bits:
# mlmmj
mlmmj_router:
driver = accept
domains = +mlmmj_domains
require_files = MLMMJ_HOME/${lc::$local_part}
# Use this instead, if you don't want to give Exim rx rights to mlmmj spool.
# Exim will then spawn a new process running under the UID of "mlmmj".
#require_files = mlmmj:MLMMJ_HOME/${lc::$local_part}
local_part_suffix = +*
local_part_suffix_optional
headers_remove = Delivered-To
headers_add = Delivered-To: $local_part$local_part_suffix@$domain
transport = mlmmj_transport
smarthost:
debug_print = "R: smarthost for $local_part@$domain"
driver = manualroute
domains = !+mlmmj_domains : !+local_domains
transport = remote_smtp_smarthost
route_list = * DCsmarthost byname
host_find_failed = defer
same_domain_copy_routing = yes
no_more
This is already set in the transport:
# mlmmj
mlmmj_transport:
driver = pipe
return_path_add
user = mlmmj
group = mlmmj
home_directory = MLMMJ_HOME
current_directory = MLMMJ_HOME
command = /usr/bin/mlmmj-receive -F -L MLMMJ_HOME/${lc:$local_part}
15. The Return-path: header line
Return-path: header lines are defined as something an MTA may insert
when it does the final delivery of messages. (See the
genericreturn_path_add transport option.) Therefore, they should not
be present in messages in transit. If the return_path_remove
configuration option is set (the default), Exim removes Return-path:
header lines from incoming messages.
I've now added this to existing vars:
# mlmmj 16.02.16 - GH
MLMMJ_HOME=/var/spool/mlmmj
domainlist mlmmj_domains = lists.suretec.net
return_path_remove = false
>> P.S. No updates for this year:
>>
>> http://mlmmj.org/archive/mlmmj/
>
>
> Yours was the first truly meaningful message of the year.
Ah, good to know.
--
Kind Regards,
Gavin Henry.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* Re: [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim
2016-02-13 12:44 [mlmmj] bounces-help and exim Gavin Henry
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2016-02-16 21:01 ` Gavin Henry
@ 2016-02-17 19:28 ` Gavin Henry
4 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Gavin Henry @ 2016-02-17 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: mlmmj
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>
> I've now added this to existing vars:
>
> # mlmmj 16.02.16 - GH
> MLMMJ_HOME=/var/spool/mlmmj
> domainlist mlmmj_domains = lists.suretec.net
> return_path_remove = false
>
Just for others, return_path_remove = false fixed this when using a
smarthost.
Thanks all.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread