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From: "Reshetova, Elena" <elena.reshetova@intel.com>
To: "Reshetova, Elena" <elena.reshetova@intel.com>,
	"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>,
	Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>
Cc: "Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
	<sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@linux.intel.com>,
	"Nakajima, Jun" <jun.nakajima@intel.com>,
	Tom Lendacky <thomas.lendacky@amd.com>,
	"Kalra, Ashish" <ashish.kalra@amd.com>,
	Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>,
	"linux-coco@lists.linux.dev" <linux-coco@lists.linux.dev>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 1/2] x86/random: Retry on RDSEED failure
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 15:18:00 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <DM8PR11MB57503A2BB6F74618D64CC44AE74E2@DM8PR11MB5750.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <DM8PR11MB57505F657A8F08E15DC34673E7422@DM8PR11MB5750.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

 
> This is a great summary of options, thank you Jason!
> My proposal would be to wait on result of our internal investigation
> before proceeding to choose the approach.

Hi everyone, 

I am finally able to share the result of my AR and here is the statement
about rdrand/rdseed on Intel platforms:

"The RdRand in a non-defective device is designed to be faster than the bus,
so when a core accesses the output from the DRNG, it will always get a
random number.
As a result, it is hard to envision a scenario where the RdRand, on a fully
functional device, will underflow.
The carry flag after RdRand signals an underflow so in the case of a defective chip,
this will prevent the code thinking it has a random number when it does not.

RdSeed however is limited by the speed of the noise source. So it is not faster
than the bus and there may be an underflow signaled by the carry flag. 
When reading for multiple values, the total throughput of RdSeed random
numbers varies over different products due to variation in the silicon processes,
operating voltage and speed vs power tradeoffs.
The throughput is shared between the cores"

In addition there is a plan to publish a whitepaper and add clarifications to
Intel official documentation on this topic, but this would obviously take longer. 

Best Regards,
Elena.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-02-14 15:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-01-30  8:30 [PATCH 1/2] x86/random: Retry on RDSEED failure Kirill A. Shutemov
2024-01-30  8:30 ` [PATCH 2/2] x86/random: Issue a warning if RDRAND or RDSEED fails Kirill A. Shutemov
2024-01-30 12:37   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 13:45     ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-30 14:21       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 14:55         ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-30 15:00           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 17:31       ` Dave Hansen
2024-01-30 17:49         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 17:58           ` Dave Hansen
2024-01-30 18:15             ` H. Peter Anvin
2024-01-30 18:23               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 18:23             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 18:37               ` Dave Hansen
2024-01-30 18:05           ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2024-01-30 18:24             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 18:31             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 18:40             ` H. Peter Anvin
2024-01-31  8:16             ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-31 11:59               ` Dr. Greg
2024-01-31 13:06               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-31 18:02                 ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-31 20:35                 ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-01  4:47                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-01  9:54                     ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-01 11:08                       ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2024-02-01 21:04                         ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-02  7:56                           ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-02-01  7:26                   ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-02-01 10:52                     ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-06  1:12               ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-06  8:04                 ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2024-02-06 12:04                   ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-06 13:00                     ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2024-02-08 10:31                       ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-06 13:50                     ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2024-02-06 15:35                     ` Borislav Petkov
2024-02-08 11:44                       ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-09 17:31                         ` Borislav Petkov
2024-02-09 19:49                           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-09 20:37                             ` Dave Hansen
2024-02-09 21:45                             ` Borislav Petkov
2024-02-06 18:49                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2024-02-08 16:38                       ` Dr. Greg
2024-01-30 15:50   ` Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
2024-01-30 12:29 ` [PATCH 1/2] x86/random: Retry on RDSEED failure Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 12:51   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 13:10   ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-30 14:06     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 14:43       ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2024-01-30 15:12         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 18:35       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-30 19:06         ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-30 19:16           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-31  7:56             ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-31 13:14               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-31 14:07                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-01-31 14:45                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-31 14:52                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-01-31 17:10                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-01-31 17:37                       ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-01-31 18:01                         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-01  4:57                           ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-01 18:09                             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-01 18:46                               ` Dave Hansen
2024-02-01 19:02                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2024-02-02  7:25                               ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-02-02 15:39                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-03 10:12                                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-09 19:53                                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-12  8:25                                       ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-02-12 16:32                                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-13  7:28                                           ` Dan Williams
2024-02-13 23:13                                             ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-14  0:53                                               ` Dan Williams
2024-02-14  4:32                                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-14  6:48                                                   ` Dan Williams
2024-02-14  6:54                                                   ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-02-14  8:34                                                   ` Nikolay Borisov
2024-02-14  9:34                                                     ` Dr. Greg
2024-02-14 17:30                                         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-14 15:18                                 ` Reshetova, Elena [this message]
2024-02-14 17:21                                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-14 17:59                                     ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-02-14 19:32                                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-15  7:07                                         ` Reshetova, Elena
2024-02-15 12:58                                           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-14 19:46                                     ` Tom Lendacky
2024-02-14 20:04                                       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-14 20:11                                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-15 13:01                                           ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2024-02-14 20:14                                     ` Dave Hansen
2024-02-02 15:47                               ` James Bottomley
2024-02-02 16:05                                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-02 21:28                                   ` James Bottomley
2024-02-03 14:35                                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-02-06 19:12                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2024-01-30 15:20     ` H. Peter Anvin
2024-01-30 15:44 ` Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan

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