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* Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image
@ 2009-02-22 23:23 Eric Cottrell
  2009-02-24 12:45 ` Norbert van Bolhuis
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eric Cottrell @ 2009-02-22 23:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linuxppc-dev

Hello,

This is getting frustrating and I am beginning to think someone messed this=
 board up and returned it.  I would think it would boot up the default flas=
h image out of the box with very little trouble.

Board is a MPC8313e-RDB Rev A4.  I set the dip switches per the instruction=
s, S4 all off and S3 all on.
Uboot comes up but I can not boot either the default images in the flash or=
 images I built with ltib and tftped.  I did not touch the flash.  I get WA=
RNING: could not set linux,stdout-path FDT_ERR_NOTFOUND and ERROR: /chosen =
node create failed - must RESET the board to recover.  The board resets.

A friend has the same board but his U-Boot is Version 1.3.0 (Jun 19 2008 - =
13:41:53) MPC83XX and some environment variables are different.  I do not h=
ave the BOOTCMD variable but entered it manually.

I tried searching for on a solution but it is confusing because if aliases =
are needed why does the default dtb in the flash omit them?

This is what happens:

U-Boot 1.3.3 (Dec  8 2008 - 09:51:15) MPC83XX

Reset Status:

CPU:   e300c3, MPC8313E, Rev: 1.0 at 333.333 MHz, CSB: 166.666 MHz
Board: Freescale MPC8313ERDB
I2C:   ready
DRAM:  128 MB
FLASH:  8 MB
In:    serial
Out:   serial
Err:   serial
Net:   TSEC0, TSEC1 [PRIME]
=3D> bootm fe100000 fe300000 fe700000
## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at fe100000 ...
   Image Name:   Linux-2.6.20
   Created:      2007-08-24  14:59:01 UTC
   Image Type:   PowerPC Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
   Data Size:    1722821 Bytes =3D  1.6 MB
   Load Address: 00000000
   Entry Point:  00000000
   Verifying Checksum ... OK
   Uncompressing Kernel Image ... OK
## Flattened Device Tree blob at fe700000
   Booting using the fdt blob at 0xfe700000
## Loading init Ramdisk from Legacy Image at fe300000 ...
   Image Name:   uboot ext2 ramdisk rootfs
   Created:      2007-08-24  15:01:41 UTC
   Image Type:   PowerPC Linux RAMDisk Image (gzip compressed)
   Data Size:    2831355 Bytes =3D  2.7 MB
   Load Address: 00000000
   Entry Point:  00000000
   Verifying Checksum ... OK
   Loading Device Tree to 007fd000, end 007fffff ... OK
WARNING: could not set linux,stdout-path FDT_ERR_NOTFOUND.
ERROR: /chosen node create failed - must RESET the board to recover.
Resetting the board.


U-Boot 1.3.3 (Dec  8 2008 - 09:51:15) MPC83XX

Reset Status: Software Hard, External/Internal Soft, External/Internal Hard

CPU:   e300c3, MPC8313E, Rev: 1.0 at 333.333 MHz, CSB: 166.666 MHz
Board: Freescale MPC8313ERDB
I2C:   ready
DRAM:  128 MB
FLASH:  8 MB
In:    serial
Out:   serial
Err:   serial
Net:   TSEC0, TSEC1 [PRIME]
=3D>=20

73 Eric

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image
  2009-02-22 23:23 Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image Eric Cottrell
@ 2009-02-24 12:45 ` Norbert van Bolhuis
  2009-02-24 14:36   ` Eric Cottrell
  2009-02-24 18:55   ` Michael Bergandi
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Norbert van Bolhuis @ 2009-02-24 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Cottrell; +Cc: linuxppc-dev

Hi Eric,

I have the same board and same problem. It's just an incompatibility between the
DTB and u-boot.
Recent u-boots (and without a doubt also your u-boot 1.3.3) expect aliases
in the DTB, these ones I guess:

.
.
         aliases {
                 ethernet0 = &enet0;
                 ethernet1 = &enet1;
                 serial0 = &serial0;
                 serial1 = &serial1;
                 pci0 = &pci0;
         };
.
.

Not being able to find alias "serial0" (in the DTB) causes this problem.
see u-boot/common/fdt_support.c:fdt_fixup_stdout

Older u-boots don't expect them. My REV A4 board was shipped with
"U-Boot 1.1.6 (Aug 24 2007 - 13:10:12) MPC83XX" (which obviously not expects the aliases).

If I flash a new/custom u-boot (U-Boot 2008.10) the problem occurs.

I assume Freescale ships their REV A4 boards with a u-boot not expecting the
aliases.
I assume your u-boot 1.3.3 is not the one the board was shipped with,
are are you saying it is ?

---
N. van Bolhuis.








Eric Cottrell wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This is getting frustrating and I am beginning to think someone messed this board up and returned it.  I would think it would boot up the default flash image out of the box with very little trouble.
> 
> Board is a MPC8313e-RDB Rev A4.  I set the dip switches per the instructions, S4 all off and S3 all on.
> Uboot comes up but I can not boot either the default images in the flash or images I built with ltib and tftped.  I did not touch the flash.  I get WARNING: could not set linux,stdout-path FDT_ERR_NOTFOUND and ERROR: /chosen node create failed - must RESET the board to recover.  The board resets.
> 
> A friend has the same board but his U-Boot is Version 1.3.0 (Jun 19 2008 - 13:41:53) MPC83XX and some environment variables are different.  I do not have the BOOTCMD variable but entered it manually.
> 
> I tried searching for on a solution but it is confusing because if aliases are needed why does the default dtb in the flash omit them?
> 
> This is what happens:
> 
> U-Boot 1.3.3 (Dec  8 2008 - 09:51:15) MPC83XX
> 
> Reset Status:
> 
> CPU:   e300c3, MPC8313E, Rev: 1.0 at 333.333 MHz, CSB: 166.666 MHz
> Board: Freescale MPC8313ERDB
> I2C:   ready
> DRAM:  128 MB
> FLASH:  8 MB
> In:    serial
> Out:   serial
> Err:   serial
> Net:   TSEC0, TSEC1 [PRIME]
> => bootm fe100000 fe300000 fe700000
> ## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at fe100000 ...
>    Image Name:   Linux-2.6.20
>    Created:      2007-08-24  14:59:01 UTC
>    Image Type:   PowerPC Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
>    Data Size:    1722821 Bytes =  1.6 MB
>    Load Address: 00000000
>    Entry Point:  00000000
>    Verifying Checksum ... OK
>    Uncompressing Kernel Image ... OK
> ## Flattened Device Tree blob at fe700000
>    Booting using the fdt blob at 0xfe700000
> ## Loading init Ramdisk from Legacy Image at fe300000 ...
>    Image Name:   uboot ext2 ramdisk rootfs
>    Created:      2007-08-24  15:01:41 UTC
>    Image Type:   PowerPC Linux RAMDisk Image (gzip compressed)
>    Data Size:    2831355 Bytes =  2.7 MB
>    Load Address: 00000000
>    Entry Point:  00000000
>    Verifying Checksum ... OK
>    Loading Device Tree to 007fd000, end 007fffff ... OK
> WARNING: could not set linux,stdout-path FDT_ERR_NOTFOUND.
> ERROR: /chosen node create failed - must RESET the board to recover.
> Resetting the board.
> 
> 
> U-Boot 1.3.3 (Dec  8 2008 - 09:51:15) MPC83XX
> 
> Reset Status: Software Hard, External/Internal Soft, External/Internal Hard
> 
> CPU:   e300c3, MPC8313E, Rev: 1.0 at 333.333 MHz, CSB: 166.666 MHz
> Board: Freescale MPC8313ERDB
> I2C:   ready
> DRAM:  128 MB
> FLASH:  8 MB
> In:    serial
> Out:   serial
> Err:   serial
> Net:   TSEC0, TSEC1 [PRIME]
> => 
> 
> 73 Eric
> _______________________________________________
> Linuxppc-dev mailing list
> Linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org
> https://ozlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxppc-dev
> 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image
  2009-02-24 12:45 ` Norbert van Bolhuis
@ 2009-02-24 14:36   ` Eric Cottrell
  2009-02-24 16:29     ` Norbert van Bolhuis
  2009-02-24 18:55   ` Michael Bergandi
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eric Cottrell @ 2009-02-24 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: nvbolhuis; +Cc: linuxppc-dev

Hello,

Thanks for the help.  I will look into that.  It is confusing as the latest=
 ltib appears not to have the aliases.  This is my first venture into Embed=
ded Linux as our existing PowerPC products use PSOS.  Most of my Linux expe=
rience is on the Intel PC platform.

Yes, the 1.3.3 version was what was shipped with the board.  The rootfs and=
 kernel appear to be older.  So I suspect someone upgraded the uBoot and ra=
n into trouble.

I am comparing this with the Rev B board we also got.  I hope to return the=
 Rev A4 and make the boards all Rev B because it has a later processor.  Th=
e Rev B boards have 1.3.0 so it should need the aliases as well.  Looking i=
n the uBoot changelogs there are some nice additions and fixes for this boa=
rd so I will look to dig more into uBoot and upgrade it.  I hate to stumble=
 out of the box.

73 Eric

----- Start Original Message -----
Sent: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:45:51 +0100
From: Norbert van Bolhuis <nvbolhuis@aimvalley.nl>
To: Eric Cottrell <wb1hbu@runbox.com>
Subject: Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image

> Hi Eric,
>=20
> I have the same board and same problem. It's just an incompatibility betw=
een the
> DTB and u-boot.
> Recent u-boots (and without a doubt also your u-boot 1.3.3) expect aliases
> in the DTB, these ones I guess:
>=20
> .
> .
>          aliases {
>                  ethernet0 =3D &enet0;
>                  ethernet1 =3D &enet1;
>                  serial0 =3D &serial0;
>                  serial1 =3D &serial1;
>                  pci0 =3D &pci0;
>          };
> .
> .
>=20
> Not being able to find alias "serial0" (in the DTB) causes this problem.
> see u-boot/common/fdt_support.c:fdt_fixup_stdout
>=20
> Older u-boots don't expect them. My REV A4 board was shipped with
> "U-Boot 1.1.6 (Aug 24 2007 - 13:10:12) MPC83XX" (which obviously not expe=
cts the aliases).
>=20
> If I flash a new/custom u-boot (U-Boot 2008.10) the problem occurs.
>=20
> I assume Freescale ships their REV A4 boards with a u-boot not expecting =
the
> aliases.
> I assume your u-boot 1.3.3 is not the one the board was shipped with,
> are are you saying it is ?
>=20
> ---
> N. van Bolhuis.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Eric Cottrell wrote:
> > Hello,
> >=20
> > This is getting frustrating and I am beginning to think someone messed =
this board up and returned it.  I would think it would boot up the default =
flash image out of the box with very little trouble.
> >=20
> > Board is a MPC8313e-RDB Rev A4.  I set the dip switches per the instruc=
tions, S4 all off and S3 all on.
> > Uboot comes up but I can not boot either the default images in the flas=
h or images I built with ltib and tftped.  I did not touch the flash.  I ge=
t WARNING: could not set linux,stdout-path FDT_ERR_NOTFOUND and ERROR: /cho=
sen node create failed - must RESET the board to recover.  The board resets.
> >=20
> > A friend has the same board but his U-Boot is Version 1.3.0 (Jun 19 200=
8 - 13:41:53) MPC83XX and some environment variables are different.  I do n=
ot have the BOOTCMD variable but entered it manually.
> >=20
> > I tried searching for on a solution but it is confusing because if alia=
ses are needed why does the default dtb in the flash omit them?
> >=20
> > This is what happens:
> >=20
> > U-Boot 1.3.3 (Dec  8 2008 - 09:51:15) MPC83XX
> >=20
> > Reset Status:
> >=20
> > CPU:   e300c3, MPC8313E, Rev: 1.0 at 333.333 MHz, CSB: 166.666 MHz
> > Board: Freescale MPC8313ERDB
> > I2C:   ready
> > DRAM:  128 MB
> > FLASH:  8 MB
> > In:    serial
> > Out:   serial
> > Err:   serial
> > Net:   TSEC0, TSEC1 [PRIME]
> > =3D> bootm fe100000 fe300000 fe700000
> > ## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at fe100000 ...
> >    Image Name:   Linux-2.6.20
> >    Created:      2007-08-24  14:59:01 UTC
> >    Image Type:   PowerPC Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
> >    Data Size:    1722821 Bytes =3D  1.6 MB
> >    Load Address: 00000000
> >    Entry Point:  00000000
> >    Verifying Checksum ... OK
> >    Uncompressing Kernel Image ... OK
> > ## Flattened Device Tree blob at fe700000
> >    Booting using the fdt blob at 0xfe700000
> > ## Loading init Ramdisk from Legacy Image at fe300000 ...
> >    Image Name:   uboot ext2 ramdisk rootfs
> >    Created:      2007-08-24  15:01:41 UTC
> >    Image Type:   PowerPC Linux RAMDisk Image (gzip compressed)
> >    Data Size:    2831355 Bytes =3D  2.7 MB
> >    Load Address: 00000000
> >    Entry Point:  00000000
> >    Verifying Checksum ... OK
> >    Loading Device Tree to 007fd000, end 007fffff ... OK
> > WARNING: could not set linux,stdout-path FDT_ERR_NOTFOUND.
> > ERROR: /chosen node create failed - must RESET the board to recover.
> > Resetting the board.
> >=20
> >=20
> > U-Boot 1.3.3 (Dec  8 2008 - 09:51:15) MPC83XX
> >=20
> > Reset Status: Software Hard, External/Internal Soft, External/Internal =
Hard
> >=20
> > CPU:   e300c3, MPC8313E, Rev: 1.0 at 333.333 MHz, CSB: 166.666 MHz
> > Board: Freescale MPC8313ERDB
> > I2C:   ready
> > DRAM:  128 MB
> > FLASH:  8 MB
> > In:    serial
> > Out:   serial
> > Err:   serial
> > Net:   TSEC0, TSEC1 [PRIME]
> > =3D>=20
> >=20
> > 73 Eric
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linuxppc-dev mailing list
> > Linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org
> > https://ozlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxppc-dev
> >=20
>=20
>=20

----- End Original Message -----

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image
  2009-02-24 14:36   ` Eric Cottrell
@ 2009-02-24 16:29     ` Norbert van Bolhuis
  2009-02-24 16:56       ` Eric Cottrell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Norbert van Bolhuis @ 2009-02-24 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Cottrell; +Cc: linuxppc-dev

Hi Eric,

So it never ever booted properly ?

Hmm, it certainly looks like your distributor (or whoever you got the MPC8313E-RDB
from) lend it out and got a messed up board back. Or maybe they messed it up
themselfes.

Go complain and send it back.

indeed, rev 2.x is better (much less TSEC bugs).

---
N. van Bolhuis.



Eric Cottrell wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Thanks for the help.  I will look into that.  It is confusing as the latest ltib appears not to have the aliases.  This is my first venture into Embedded Linux as our existing PowerPC products use PSOS.  Most of my Linux experience is on the Intel PC platform.
> 
> Yes, the 1.3.3 version was what was shipped with the board.  The rootfs and kernel appear to be older.  So I suspect someone upgraded the uBoot and ran into trouble.
> 
> I am comparing this with the Rev B board we also got.  I hope to return the Rev A4 and make the boards all Rev B because it has a later processor.  The Rev B boards have 1.3.0 so it should need the aliases as well.  Looking in the uBoot changelogs there are some nice additions and fixes for this board so I will look to dig more into uBoot and upgrade it.  I hate to stumble out of the box.
> 
> 73 Eric
> 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image
  2009-02-24 16:29     ` Norbert van Bolhuis
@ 2009-02-24 16:56       ` Eric Cottrell
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eric Cottrell @ 2009-02-24 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: nvbolhuis; +Cc: linuxppc-dev

Hello,

It never booted properly out of the box.

I raised the issue with the Distributor but have not heard back yet.

73 Eric

----- Start Original Message -----
Sent: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:29:15 +0100
From: Norbert van Bolhuis <nvbolhuis@aimvalley.nl>
To: Eric Cottrell <wb1hbu@runbox.com>
Subject: Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image

> Hi Eric,
>=20
> So it never ever booted properly ?
>=20
> Hmm, it certainly looks like your distributor (or whoever you got the MPC=
8313E-RDB
> from) lend it out and got a messed up board back. Or maybe they messed it=
 up
> themselfes.
>=20
> Go complain and send it back.
>=20
> indeed, rev 2.x is better (much less TSEC bugs).
>=20
> ---
> N. van Bolhuis.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Eric Cottrell wrote:
> > Hello,
> >=20
> > Thanks for the help.  I will look into that.  It is confusing as the la=
test ltib appears not to have the aliases.  This is my first venture into E=
mbedded Linux as our existing PowerPC products use PSOS.  Most of my Linux =
experience is on the Intel PC platform.
> >=20
> > Yes, the 1.3.3 version was what was shipped with the board.  The rootfs=
 and kernel appear to be older.  So I suspect someone upgraded the uBoot an=
d ran into trouble.
> >=20
> > I am comparing this with the Rev B board we also got.  I hope to return=
 the Rev A4 and make the boards all Rev B because it has a later processor.=
  The Rev B boards have 1.3.0 so it should need the aliases as well.  Looki=
ng in the uBoot changelogs there are some nice additions and fixes for this=
 board so I will look to dig more into uBoot and upgrade it.  I hate to stu=
mble out of the box.
> >=20
> > 73 Eric
> >=20
>=20

----- End Original Message -----

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image
  2009-02-24 12:45 ` Norbert van Bolhuis
  2009-02-24 14:36   ` Eric Cottrell
@ 2009-02-24 18:55   ` Michael Bergandi
  2009-03-02  0:58     ` Eric Cottrell
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Michael Bergandi @ 2009-02-24 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Norbert van Bolhuis; +Cc: linuxppc-dev, Eric Cottrell

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1471 bytes --]

Hi guys,

I have the Rev B board and I have it working quite well. I'll share what I
have
discovered so far.

In Eric's case, the board seems suspect. There is already a Rev C of this
board, but
I am not sure if it is actually available yet. You may want to check on
that.

Regarding U-Boot, mine shipped with v. 1.3.0. The LTIB provided dts files
follow
the original dts format. There is a new dts spec and if you ever intend to
use
a mainline kernel, you will need to use the newer dts provided in the kernel
source. Did I mention this board has at least basic support in 2.6.28 :). I
have
not determined the extent of the support though.

I have successfully used the provided U-Boot v1.3.0 to boot a 2.6.28 kernel
with
the dts-v1 device tree. Hence, I hope that will clear your speculation about
the
device tree being the problem.

I have seen the same problem that you guys have seen where U-Boot gets to
the "Uncompressing kernel ..." then reboots. This happened to me when I
passed the wrong device tree .dtb. I have also had this happen if I made
a change to the kernel config. I haven't been able to determine what exactly

that I changed that caused the problem though.

Also, if you are feeling adventurous, you can also get the latest U-Boot.
There
is a specifc branch for this board:

$ git clone git://git.denx.de/u-boot-mpc83xx.git

I haven't attempted this since I don't currently have a probe to recovery a
bad boot loader flash.

Hope this helps,

Mike

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1680 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image
  2009-02-24 18:55   ` Michael Bergandi
@ 2009-03-02  0:58     ` Eric Cottrell
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eric Cottrell @ 2009-03-02  0:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mbergandi; +Cc: linuxppc-dev, nvbolhuis

Hello,

I got brave enough this weekend to try flashing uBoot using uBoot.  I used =
the uBoot image that is in my ltib rootfs/boot directory.  The build is 1.3=
.0 (Dec 22 2008 - 11:19:29) MPC83XX.  It worked.  On reboot the checksum on=
 the uBoot environment was bad so it used the default environment.  I just =
did a saveenv, put in the bootm command with the right flash addresses, and=
 it booted the default flash image.  Next I am going to configure to boot t=
he ltib images in ram.

So the U-Boot 1.3.3 (Dec 8 2008 - 09:51:15) MPC83XX must have been a custom=
 build that did not quite work or needed the additional things in the FDT. =
 I am going to research it before trying a later uBoot version.

So I am good to go.  Thanks for the help.

If there is a Rev C out soon I am going to wait and maybe buy the Rev C.

73 Eric
----- Start Original Message -----
Sent: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:55:53 -0500
From: Michael Bergandi <mbergandi@gmail.com>
To: Norbert van Bolhuis <nvbolhuis@aimvalley.nl>
Subject: Re: Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image

>=20
> Hi guys,

I have the Rev B board and I have it working quite well. I'll share what
I have
discovered so far.=20

In Eric's case, the board seems suspect. There is already a Rev C of this
board, but
I am not sure if it is actually available yet. You may want to check on
that.

Regarding U-Boot, mine shipped with v. 1.3.0. The LTIB provided dts files
follow
the original dts format. There is a new dts spec and if you ever intend
to use
a mainline kernel, you will need to use the newer dts provided in the
kernel
source. Did I mention this board has at least basic support in 2.6.28 :).
I have
not determined the extent of the support though.

I have successfully used the provided U-Boot v1.3.0 to boot a 2.6.28
kernel with
the dts-v1 device tree. Hence, I hope that will clear your speculation
about the
device tree being the problem.

I have seen the same problem that you guys have seen where U-Boot gets to
the "Uncompressing kernel ..." then reboots. This happened to me when I
passed the wrong device tree .dtb. I have also had this happen if I made
a change to the kernel config. I haven't been able to determine what
exactly
that I changed that caused the problem though.

Also, if you are feeling adventurous, you can also get the latest U-Boot.
There
is a specifc branch for this board:

$ git clone git://git.denx.de/u-boot-mpc83xx.git

I haven't attempted this since I don't currently have a probe to recovery
a
bad boot loader flash.

Hope this helps,

Mike


----- End Original Message -----

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2009-03-02  0:58 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-02-22 23:23 Can not get "new" MPC8313e-RDB to boot "as-shipped" flash image Eric Cottrell
2009-02-24 12:45 ` Norbert van Bolhuis
2009-02-24 14:36   ` Eric Cottrell
2009-02-24 16:29     ` Norbert van Bolhuis
2009-02-24 16:56       ` Eric Cottrell
2009-02-24 18:55   ` Michael Bergandi
2009-03-02  0:58     ` Eric Cottrell

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