Lynx AES16 driver

Lynx AES16 driver

[Michal Kostrzewa]

Hello,

Please help me in that license related case:
I want to write a Lynx AES16 (http://www.lynxstudio.com/aes16.html) ALSA
driver (I'm from Warsaw University of Technology and we want to use this
card in our investigations). I wrote to Lynxstudio, and I received an
answer that driver related specs are accessible under terms of
Non-Disclosure Agreement which doesn't allow distribution of source code
or any derived materials thus preventing development of ALSA driver as
ALSA drivers are open source.

My question is: has an ALSA driver to be an open source? On
www.alsa-project.org there is a sentence: "ALSA is released under the
GPL (GNU General Public license) and the LGPL (GNU Lesser General Public
License)." (please note the LGPL). I understand, that there can be a
driver distributed in binary form (e.g in fact firmware needed to run
hdsp are distributed in binary form), GPL means that you cannot close
the ALSA core framework. 

Is this whole situation hopeless? Have I any arguments to use in the
discussion with Lynxstudio?

Thank you in advance and best regards,
Michal Kostrzewa





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Re: Lynx AES16 driver

[Takashi Iwai]

At Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:15:03 +0100,
Michal Kostrzewa wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Please help me in that license related case:
> I want to write a Lynx AES16 (http://www.lynxstudio.com/aes16.html) ALSA
> driver (I'm from Warsaw University of Technology and we want to use this
> card in our investigations). I wrote to Lynxstudio, and I received an
> answer that driver related specs are accessible under terms of
> Non-Disclosure Agreement which doesn't allow distribution of source code
> or any derived materials thus preventing development of ALSA driver as
> ALSA drivers are open source.
> 
> My question is: has an ALSA driver to be an open source? On
> www.alsa-project.org there is a sentence: "ALSA is released under the
> GPL (GNU General Public license) and the LGPL (GNU Lesser General Public
> License)." (please note the LGPL).

all the driver stuffs are distributed under GPL, while the ALSA libary
is under LGPL.  the user-space programs are all under GPL, so far.

> I understand, that there can be a
> driver distributed in binary form (e.g in fact firmware needed to run
> hdsp are distributed in binary form), GPL means that you cannot close
> the ALSA core framework. 

the modules which use the ALSA kernel API have to follow the GPL
rule.  if you load the firmware separately from the external program,
it's a different thing.  the firmware loader is nothing but an
application.

> Is this whole situation hopeless? Have I any arguments to use in the
> discussion with Lynxstudio?

don't think of releasing the binary-only modules on linux.
it's just a nightmare.

if the firmware matters, it's avoidable by putting it outside of the
kernel (which is anyway preferred), and creating a proper loader
program.  but the driver code itself must be open source.


Takashi


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Re: Lynx AES16 driver

[Dan Hollis]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Michal Kostrzewa wrote:
> Is this whole situation hopeless?

Yes.

> Have I any arguments to use in the discussion with Lynxstudio?

Tell them you will use some other vendor instead, and that if they believe 
there is anything about their card which needs hiding in software, they 
are likely mistaken. If they want to protect IP, use patents for that -- 
not hiding in drivers.

-Dan



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RE: Lynx AES16 driver

[Giuliano Pochini]

On 19-Jan-2004 Michal Kostrzewa wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Please help me in that license related case:
> I want to write a Lynx AES16 (http://www.lynxstudio.com/aes16.html) ALSA
> driver (I'm from Warsaw University of Technology and we want to use this
> card in our investigations). I wrote to Lynxstudio, and I received an
> answer that driver related specs are accessible under terms of
> Non-Disclosure Agreement which doesn't allow distribution of source code
> or any derived materials thus preventing development of ALSA driver as
> ALSA drivers are open source.

Yes, I got the same answer when I asked about the LynxTwo.


> My question is: has an ALSA driver to be an open source?

Yes, otherwise you have to release binary drivers for each ALSA version,
kernel version, compiler, architecture.  It's impossible.

> On www.alsa-project.org there is a sentence: "ALSA is released under the
> GPL (GNU General Public license) and the LGPL (GNU Lesser General Public
> License)." (please note the LGPL). I understand, that there can be a
> driver distributed in binary form (e.g in fact firmware needed to run
> hdsp are distributed in binary form), GPL means that you cannot close
> the ALSA core framework.

If you split your driver in two parts: one (GPL) that interfaces with ALSA
and the real driver (non-GPL). There are many examples. eg. The ToucamPro
webcam driver, Nvidia drivers and my driver for Echoaudio soundcards.


> Is this whole situation hopeless? Have I any arguments to use in the
> discussion with Lynxstudio?

Yep :(  They don't like the "invasive" GPL. I can't understand those
people. We are speaking about a *driver*. The card is the product they
sell. Customers don't buy the card because they need to use the driver.


--
Giuliano.


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Re: Lynx AES16 driver

[Glenn Maynard]

On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 09:40:36AM +0100, Giuliano Pochini wrote:
> Yep :(  They don't like the "invasive" GPL. I can't understand those
> people. We are speaking about a *driver*. The card is the product they
> sell. Customers don't buy the card because they need to use the driver.

Huh?  I don't know about you, but certainly won't buy a card if I can't
get drivers for it.

-- 
Glenn Maynard


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Re: Lynx AES16 driver

[Michal Kostrzewa]

> > Have I any arguments to use in the discussion with Lynxstudio?
>
> Tell them you will use some other vendor instead, and that if they believe
> there is anything about their card which needs hiding in software, they
> are likely mistaken. If they want to protect IP, use patents for that --
> not hiding in drivers.

I wish I could! But no other PCI card I've found so far has 192kHz AES/EBU IO 
I need for linking it to dCS converters we have in studio on our University.

Perhaps you know any alternatives with linux support? (I posted this question 
on Linux Audio User list but found no satisfactionary answers). Or even 
without linux support but with more linux-friendly manufacturer?

best regards,
Michal Kostrzewa



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Re: Lynx AES16 driver

[Ed Wildgoose]

> I wish I could! But no other PCI card I've found so far has 192kHz AES/EBU
IO
> I need for linking it to dCS converters we have in studio on our
University.

Can't you do this through the various RME cards?  The latest ones have
192khz analogue, but I haven't looked at the digital performance...?



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