From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Davide Libenzi <davidel@xmailserver.org>
Cc: Zach Brown <zach.brown@oracle.com>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-aio@kvack.org, Suparna Bhattacharya <suparna@in.ibm.com>,
Benjamin LaHaise <bcrl@kvack.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0 of 4] Generic AIO by scheduling stacks
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:01:49 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702101054250.8424@woody.linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702101034220.11630@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com>
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007, Davide Libenzi wrote:
>
> For the queue approach, I meant the async_submit() to simply add the
> request (cookie, syscall number and params) inside queue, and not trying
> to execute the syscall. Once you're inside schedule, "stuff" has already
> partially happened, and you cannot have the same request re-initiated by a
> different thread.
But that makes it impossible to do things synchronously, which I think is
a *major* mistake.
The whole (and really _only_) point of my patch was really the whole
"synchronous call" part. I'm personally of the opinion that if you cannot
handle the cached case as fast as just doing the system call directly,
then the whole thing is almost pointless.
Things that take a long time we already have good methods for. "epoll" and
"kevent" are always going to be the best way to handle the "we have ten
thousand events outstanding". There simply isn't any question about it.
You can *never* handle ten thousand long-running events efficiently with
threads - even if you ignore all the CPU overhead, you're going to have a
much bigger memory (and thus *cache*) footprint.
So anybody who wants to use AIO to do those kinds of long-running async
things is out to lunch. It's not the point.
You use the AIO stuff for things that you *expect* to be almost
instantaneous. Even if you actually start ten thousand IO's in one go, and
they all do IO, you would hopefully expect that the first ones start
completingn before you've even submitted them all. If that's not true,
then you'd just be better off using epoll.
Also, if you can make the cached case as fast as just doing the direct
system call itself, that just changes the whole equation for using it. You
suddenly don't have any downsides. You can start using the async
interfaces in places you simply couldn't otherwise, or in places where
you'd have to do a lot of performance tuning ("it makes sense under this
particular load because I actually need to get 100 IO's going at the same
time to saturate the disk").
So the "do cached things synchronously" really is important. Just because
that makes a whole complicated optimization question go away: you
basically *always* win for normal stuff.
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-02-10 19:03 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 151+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-01-30 20:39 [PATCH 0 of 4] Generic AIO by scheduling stacks Zach Brown
2007-01-30 20:39 ` [PATCH 1 of 4] Introduce per_call_chain() Zach Brown
2007-01-30 20:39 ` [PATCH 2 of 4] Introduce i386 fibril scheduling Zach Brown
2007-02-01 8:36 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-01 13:02 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-01 13:19 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-02-01 13:52 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-01 17:13 ` Mark Lord
2007-02-01 18:02 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-02 13:23 ` Andi Kleen
2007-02-01 21:52 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-01 22:23 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-02-01 22:37 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-02 13:22 ` Andi Kleen
2007-02-01 20:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-02 10:49 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-02 15:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-02 19:59 ` Alan
2007-02-02 20:14 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-02 20:58 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-02 21:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-02 21:30 ` Alan
2007-02-02 21:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-02 22:42 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-02 23:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-02 23:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-03 0:04 ` Alan
2007-02-03 0:23 ` bert hubert
2007-02-02 22:48 ` Alan
2007-02-05 16:44 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-02 22:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-02 22:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-02 23:55 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-03 0:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-03 7:15 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-03 8:23 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-03 9:25 ` Matt Mackall
2007-02-03 10:03 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 17:44 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-05 19:26 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 19:41 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-05 20:10 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 20:21 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-05 20:42 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 20:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 21:09 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 21:31 ` Kent Overstreet
2007-02-06 20:25 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-06 20:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 21:16 ` David Miller
2007-02-06 21:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 21:31 ` David Miller
2007-02-06 21:46 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-02-06 21:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 22:28 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-06 22:45 ` Kent Overstreet
2007-02-06 23:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-07 1:22 ` Kent Overstreet
2007-02-06 23:23 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-06 23:39 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-06 23:56 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-07 0:06 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-07 0:23 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-07 0:44 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-07 1:15 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-07 1:24 ` Kent Overstreet
2007-02-07 1:30 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-07 6:16 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-07 9:17 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-07 9:37 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-06 0:32 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 21:21 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-02 23:37 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-03 0:02 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 17:12 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-05 18:24 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 21:44 ` David Miller
2007-02-06 0:15 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 21:36 ` bert hubert
2007-02-05 21:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 22:07 ` bert hubert
2007-02-05 22:15 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-05 22:34 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-06 0:27 ` Scot McKinley
2007-02-06 0:48 ` David Miller
2007-02-06 0:48 ` Joel Becker
2007-02-05 17:02 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-05 18:52 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 19:20 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-05 19:38 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-04 5:12 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-05 17:54 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-30 20:39 ` [PATCH 3 of 4] Teach paths to wake a specific void * target instead of a whole task_struct Zach Brown
2007-01-30 20:39 ` [PATCH 4 of 4] Introduce aio system call submission and completion system calls Zach Brown
2007-01-31 8:58 ` Andi Kleen
2007-01-31 17:15 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 17:21 ` Andi Kleen
2007-01-31 19:23 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-01 11:13 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-01 19:50 ` Trond Myklebust
2007-02-02 7:19 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-02 7:45 ` Andi Kleen
2007-02-01 22:18 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-02 3:35 ` Suparna Bhattacharya
2007-02-01 20:26 ` bert hubert
2007-02-01 21:29 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-02 7:12 ` bert hubert
2007-02-04 5:12 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-01-30 21:58 ` [PATCH 0 of 4] Generic AIO by scheduling stacks Linus Torvalds
2007-01-30 22:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-30 22:53 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-30 22:40 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-30 22:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-30 23:45 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 2:07 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-01-31 2:04 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-01-31 2:46 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-31 3:02 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-31 10:50 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-01-31 19:28 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 17:59 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 5:16 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2007-01-31 5:36 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-31 5:51 ` Nick Piggin
2007-01-31 6:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-01-31 8:43 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-01-31 20:13 ` Joel Becker
2007-01-31 18:20 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 17:47 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 17:38 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 17:51 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-01-31 19:25 ` Zach Brown
2007-01-31 20:05 ` Benjamin LaHaise
2007-01-31 20:41 ` Zach Brown
2007-02-04 5:13 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-04 20:00 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-09 22:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-09 23:11 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-09 23:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-10 18:45 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-10 19:01 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2007-02-10 19:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-10 20:59 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-10 0:04 ` Eric Dumazet
2007-02-10 0:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-10 0:34 ` Alan
2007-02-10 10:47 ` bert hubert
2007-02-10 18:19 ` Davide Libenzi
2007-02-11 0:56 ` David Miller
2007-02-11 2:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-14 16:42 ` James Antill
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=Pine.LNX.4.64.0702101054250.8424@woody.linux-foundation.org \
--to=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
--cc=bcrl@kvack.org \
--cc=davidel@xmailserver.org \
--cc=linux-aio@kvack.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=mingo@elte.hu \
--cc=suparna@in.ibm.com \
--cc=zach.brown@oracle.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.